Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Wow, this is so disappointing to read. I think the madden community as a whole loved individual bump and wr shading on last gen. To hear your not gung-ho about adding them and think it makes the game less sim leaves me speechless. I honestly don't know what to make of this other than that I'm extremely disappointed. This is why defense is so frustrating to play imo, gamers are just left calling plays and letting the cpu handle the rest when on d.

Ugh, can we for once not blow quotes out of proportion? Is that the situation we are in here? I loved those features too. In fact I was the designer that put those in.

Let's face it - a defense isn't built at pre-play with each player actually changing their assignments all over the field. We all know that isn't REALISTIC or SIM. But as I acknowledge, Madden gamers need that control because the defensive options are limited. It's the same with offensive hot routes. We break realism in pre-play to allow you more options.

The whole "something we're looking into" is actually me acknowledging that we want it.

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

i understand becuase i realize that you guys are not only targeting one audience fair enough...

however, penalties are a BIGGGGGG part of football, its the rules man, once again in your effort to bring in a wider audience the wrong part of football is being sacrificed....

i just feel that your attempts to add to your audience is always punching the hardcore crowd in the gut...

Penalties are a part, yep. Having a realistic amount of penalties by bumping a few sliders up seems like the correct approach right? Same reason there is Rookie mode or All-Madden mode, or Free-For-All or Hardcore Team Deathmatch in shooters...to each his own!

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Well it's been real but it's time to watch some football. Maybe I'll learn something! yuk yuk yuk

Go Giants!

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Penalties are a part, yep. Having a realistic amount of penalties by bumping a few sliders up seems like the correct approach right? Same reason there is Rookie mode or All-Madden mode, or Free-For-All or Hardcore Team Deathmatch in shooters...to each his own!

Actually, I think if you had a category (like we were discussing earlier) for penalties and maybe a slider bar with , less, avg or more penalties per game, that might suit a wider audience more.

Also, I think the frustrating part for penalties only seem like holding, clipping and face mask work with any kind of consistency. Upping the sliders doesn't increase the percentage of the other penalties being called in it's current state.

[PhillyJim76]

can you please fix some of the minor issues that really detract from the game? Example, my QB fumbles and my O-line recovers, but they go nuts in the cut scene and celebrate the way a defensive team would if they recover a fumble for a turnover.

when you see something like that, it just looks sloppy.

[carnalnirvana]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Penalties are a part, yep. Having a realistic amount of penalties by bumping a few sliders up seems like the correct approach right? Same reason there is Rookie mode or All-Madden mode, or Free-For-All or Hardcore Team Deathmatch in shooters...to each his own!

lets agree to disagree.

i am enjoying the game after i edited it ALOT. however a fully customizable madden would be great. i sometimes feel our intelligence and dedication to gaming is sometimes disrespected when we get a game that limits our creativity and its creators try to slim it down even more...

i feel sim ballers will tweak while the casuals will use default "out the box" i hope one day the return of options can be the main goal for a dev cycle...

anyway man thx for the replies its gametime goodnight...

[therizing02]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Ugh, can we for once not blow quotes out of proportion? Is that the situation we are in here? I loved those features too. In fact I was the designer that put those in.

Let's face it - a defense isn't built at pre-play with each player actually changing their assignments all over the field. We all know that isn't REALISTIC or SIM. But as I acknowledge, Madden gamers need that control because the defensive options are limited. It's the same with offensive hot routes. We break realism in pre-play to allow you more options.

The whole "something we're looking into" is actually me acknowledging that we want it.

Ian,

I can't remember the name of the game but I used to play a text based game where you had to"build" your defensive play call.

First you would choose 3-4, 4-3, Nickel, Dime, Quarter, etc. You also had options for LB, DB, and DL.

The entire sequence probably took about 5-7 seconds. My question is is this possible with the current engine? Ex. Instead of Cover 2 Press we choose, 3-4, press, twist, OLB Blitz, short zone, etc.

I thought the Gameplan feature was a HUGE step in the right direction for creating a more SIM like experience this year. The fact that I can go in and change/add/delete the existing playbooks was huge in allowing me to create my own "SIM" Madden experience.

Something that could take this a step further next year, if "building" your defensive call is not possible would be a Play Creator with multiple options. Knowing that you are for customization, being able to create our own plays from the ground up combined with the overall gameplay improvements to tackling, zone coverage etc. seems like you would have a combined effort from the development team and the community to create a more SIM experience. At the same time you'll still be able to grab the "casual players" dollars by not creating a game that is over the top from a "jump in and play" standpoint.

Thanks man.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

As long as EA make scrambling QB's a threat, I will be happy. So you can pass that on to the NCAA guys as well, because QB's on the college football game don't scramble either. Matter of fact I will list all things that will make me happy.

1. Scrambling QB's, I will like to see the cpu QB who are scramblers actually run the ball to take advantage of wide open running lanes. I want to be forced to use spy the QB on defense to prevent a Vick like QB from running all over me.

Too many times I can just rush 3 or even just 2 lineman and the QB will have wide open running lanes and they won't ever run. Instead they would try to force the ball into triple coverage 40 yards down the field.

2. Punt blocks. I have never seen the cpu ever block a punt. Nor have I seen them even get close to blocking a punt. I mean if I come out in a regular punt formation and the cpu comes out in an all out block, shouldn't my punt be blocked ?

3. Stop having the cpu punt the ball out of bounds when it isn't appropiate. Nothing is worse then having the cpu punt the ball from their 40 and have it go out of bounds at the 50 yard line. And not just barely out of bounds, but 15 yards wayyyyyyyyyyy out of bounds.

4. It would be nice to see the cpu run some fake punt and fake FG plays.

But above all else, please fix the scrambling QB AI. This has been broken for the past 2 Madden's and NCAA football games now. You guys had it perfect in 08 version. But came 09. 10 and now 11, the cpu QB don't ever run or scramble.

It is as though they are called a dual threat and scrambling QB in name ONLY.

[jfsolo]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Penalties are a part, yep. Having a realistic amount of penalties by bumping a few sliders up seems like the correct approach right? Same reason there is Rookie mode or All-Madden mode, or Free-For-All or Hardcore Team Deathmatch in shooters...to each his own!

IMO, no development team has ever really tuned the penalty/foul sliders to work well enough for the User to create a game that can accurately reflect the sloppiness that happens in some games.

False starts, offsides, Pass interference, late hits, intentional grounding, those sliders have never worked well. Maxing out those sliders should result in an exponentially increased probability of those penalties being called, not a slight increase in probability.

In Franchise editing, more individual player tendencies, i.e. greater ability to alter C.P.U. A.I. scripts, would all be major plus.

I know the online crowd would still be up in arms about the default settings, but at least the Franchise people could have much more freedom to craft a more realistic experience.

[marshallfever]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Hey Ian, are you guys looking into implementing human error into Madden? Things like fumbled snaps, mental lapses (IE blown coverages, things like that), players falling down, things like that would add a lot to the game IMO

I never thought of it like this but it would be awesome if we had control of stuff like the snap and fumbles. It happens in the NFL alot and in Madden its too random which sucks. And when it does happen it feels cheap because its the A.I. deciding for it to happen.

I just got a thought. What if to snap the ball we have to hold "A" or "X". If any one heres played Fable, when you hold down the button to charge something. What if when we snapped the ball we had to charge the button and if you didn't completely charge it you should expected a bosch snap. It's not a perfect idea but it would be cooler if it was up to us to do things like avoid fumbles and bad snaps vs the A.I.

[Dewie12]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

As much as I criticize the Madden team, there is no way they will ever do roster editor like that, and nor should they. Why give people something that allows you to update the rosters next year and not buy another copy of the game?

Because there are more enhancements than simply updating the roster.....If this was the case. I would still be playing Madden 08.

[Dewie12]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Thanks for the feedback. Customization is much tougher on the consoles as you know. But that's great insight (mainly what's in red) for sure.

You give us the tools we will make the game work for ourselves. *Bleep* the rest.

[cedwebb]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Just watching the game trying to think of ways to make the pre-snap adjustments more realstic. I think it would be pretty cool if we were able to put more of the pre-snap adjustments in the hands of the players on the field and take the actual changes out of the hands of the human.

My thoughts would be for the human only to be able to decide whether or not an audible or hot route be made, not what it is actually changed to. I would like that to be done by the QB and the defensive captians. My example is Brady is walking up to the line of scrimmage and I don't like what I see, I hit the button to call an audible, it is then up to Brady to make the correct change to the play. Of course what he changes the play to is going to based on his pre-snap awareness. The lower the awareness for the players making changes on the field the more chance they make a incorrect play adjustment. Also each player on the field will have to adjust to the play called and how they adjust to it would be based on their awareness. This gives the opportunity for blown coverages, missed assignments, etc. Some players would be better than others obviously.

This really puts alot of depth into who you decide to put on the field and to me would make the game more sim. You could take it a step further by implementing a weekly plan for your team (film study etc.) and based on what you have them do their awareness for each week can fluctuate causing you to have to decide who to play. Adds a ton to replay value.

To me this would make pre-snap so much more interesting because it all based on the awareness of the players, not the human. This to me makes the players feel more life like, ultimately making it more sim.

[Palo20]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

They should use some game tracking use by Football Outsiders. The Madden team should implement a tuning system that they could make updates besides patches.

I'm pretty sure Donny did an interview with FO at some point and mentioned that he uses stats such as theirs in his ratings too. I think he does a decent job considering the number of players who are in the NFL.

[blood9585]

I believe individual WR shading should make a comeback. It would help big with defensive coverages. The thing is it's easy to spot individual changes done on defense so it really is just a preference thing. I think EA should just look at watch features made old madden versions so popular, and make sure thats in Madden 2012 for starters.
Yesterday I started up the ol' SNES and played Madden 97'. The best thing about that game was the practice drills (aka mini camp). Theres an obstacle course, 10 fight drill, RB catch drill, and defensive back drill just to name a couple. Thats what had me coming back in 96. I notice every year there was another just can't put this game down feature that had me coming back for more. Every time a version came out that completely removed old features for seemly no reason I always was a little disappointed.

I think everyone is waiting on the AI to play so human like, gameflow to seem perfect, and online franchise to take over the world. Those feature are nice, but the old faithful features need love too. They should just be thrown out with no regard of improving them.

This team with Ian Cummings was long over due. They actually reach out to what the players want, so they deserve way more praises than criticism. Fundamentals of the NFL need to sound before you can build on top of a game, so I understand the more than 1 year theory. Only feature I can say was kind of way out there for my liking was Ultimate team. Every thing else was a great welcome. So continue to do what you do Ian. More efficient usage of memory and more realistic gameplay.