Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

[blood9585]

Also NBA 2k11 is probably the greatest sports game to date. The madden franchise should look to implement a lot from it.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Ugh, can we for once not blow quotes out of proportion? Is that the situation we are in here? I loved those features too. In fact I was the designer that put those in.

Let's face it - a defense isn't built at pre-play with each player actually changing their assignments all over the field. We all know that isn't REALISTIC or SIM. But as I acknowledge, Madden gamers need that control because the defensive options are limited. It's the same with offensive hot routes. We break realism in pre-play to allow you more options.

The whole "something we're looking into" is actually me acknowledging that we want it.

I'm sorry you feel I overreacted. For me, these features were the single best part of last gen madden, bar none. When I got a ps3 and Madden 09, I just took granted they would be in. I mean why not, it's technology that was designed years ago. When I saw they weren't, I thought well Madden 10 will have it for sure. Then it was, I hope to god Madden 11 has it.

I'm not trying to be melodramatic but without those features I really have no interest in madden 12 so reading that post almost buried the game for me 10 months before it's release.

Not to be rude but as a longtime fan of the series (last gen at least), it's very difficult to believe you really want those features in the game when they have been around since at least madden 08, and they are something you yourself originally designed.

[wallofhate]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

At this point I think its almost counter productive. It feels like a bad NFL team! The fans want change and progress and ownership is seems to make bad move after bad move. I personally think they have a good team in place its just weird to me how unbalanced it is. Sometimes its so stiff its unnerving and then all of the sudden your rb breaks a tackle and stumbles and it looks so realistic you can't help but to replay it over and over! You zoom in on the players glove and you can see the Reebok on the fingers and yet you have so many uniform errors??!! Defensive A.I. plays how you want them to for 2 down and 3rd down its like all your defense has an concussion??

These guys have a job to do and that is to make money by selling games and content. I'm not mad at them for a lot of what they do. A lot of the things the people at EA have to realize is most of that are young kids or people just trying to get a rise out of them. The "true" community like myself (im 28) just want them to know that the product of football they're producing is just not acceptable anymore!! We know its hard that's why everyone can't make games but other developers have shown and proven that not only are major changes possible but also possible in yearly cycles. Sliders are good but they shouldn't be the answer to make a game payable jusT more realistic!!!

Penalize players for not playing realistic. I shouldn't play my 11 year old nephew and he be able to keep up on the higher levels! Bring back the chess game bring back utilizing your star player to win the game. And for the love of God please fix presentation and broadcasting! Hearing Collingsworth call the new broadcaster Tom is just plain ridiculous! We are not asking for perfection we just want a larger chunk of realistic football that you havent given us since plantation 2 and xbox days! Bring a hell of a game next year and then you can just tweak the game through the next few years. Gradually isn't going to do the trick anymore its time to change the culture of maddened as we know it and switch the perception. just my thoughts thanks for reading and listening

[rawcorp]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Ian should know by now that most of us on here griping about Madden are griping about THE SAME THINGS YEAR AFTER YEAR. He says that they are doing everything to make this a better representation of NFL football, at the same time implementing new features. Granted each year they add some new "gimmick" to make Madden feel new and improved. But they NEVER seem to fix the core gameplay elements that make football more realistic. Pass Rush, pocket formation, playcalling, tackling, player interactions etc (i.e. WR/DB or OL/DL interactions) are never truly fixed to imitate the real NFL.

The thing is its not like these things are impossible. Other companies have implemented those things, and even previous Maddens implemented it too. The thing is they fix useless crap like hand towels, or throwback uniforms etc. but they dont ever seem to fix the real things that would make people want this game.

Why must we always complain about the same things every year? Just fix it for crying out loud.

[Palo20]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Ian, thanks for the insights.

--Getting CB shading back is just a very key part of strategic football. I hope it makes it in.

--I don't know if you're misunderstanding a little of what the "hardcore" crowd wants. I don't think anyone wants to play a 2 hour game of Madden with 22 penalties. Most people have simply asked for illegal contact calls and more PI calls (hopefully with some cool animations too).

I think the fix for this is to really make sure the penalty sliders work so the people who might want to see a ton of penalties will have that option. Having defensive PI at 100 should make for 4-5 PI calls per game. If the slider works a little better, we won't see any more "I've only seen 1 PI call in 87 games" threads.

--With regards to gameplanning and gameflow, I think they were great additions and I think they went over well in the hardcore community. Giving us a chance to create CPU gameplans (when they were working correctly) and really dictating how the CPU calls a game was a huge step forward IMO.

PS....

Please let us edit ratings in Franchise. Thanks

[daggaswagga]

I'd suggest you listen to the podcast. We actually didn't say that at all.

<sigh>
PS I'd love to be on this forum more but when so many people have seemingly lost trust in our ability to deliver our vision it's really too frustrating and takes a toll personally. As you all know the proof is in the pudding. In August hopefully we'll change your mind.</sigh>

maybe "NOW" you guys wanna try and make Madden "sim" because maybe the 2k team is about the make you guys step your game up (2012)...we all know that's the only reason why the madden team wanna talk "SIM" NOW

[Aggies7]

Podcast 3 Question


Any word on using the defensive player lock system like NCAA where the came spins around to behind the defense?

[guaps]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

I appreciate these podcasts and that the community gets the opportunity to hear more about the vision of the development team. Understandably they can't say much as it's November, but you get the overall idea that they've got the right intentions.

However, I still have a grudge with their attitude towards ratings (especially the whole czar-thing they've got going on). I agree with kushmir's posts that Madden's rating system is really poor and I do believe it needs an extreme makeover. At the same time I also understand that player ratings has become a big part of Madden's marketing.

There is no comparable sports video game to Madden when it comes to the promotion of players ratings. Over the last couple of years we've seen an increased spin on ratings (the Housmanzadah incident, "live" draft day ratings, massive weekly updates etc.). This year we even had several Madden forums and webpages creating big headlines when Moss' spectacular catch rating increased by 1 after the Jets game (when he was in NE).

I just cannot help being discouraged by all these player rating events, when I know that it has very little to no effect on gameplay whatsoever. Madden still plays like it's got generic players on all positions despite more ratings than the PS2 counterpart and you can't really tell the difference between Julius Peppers and Corey Wootton when you play the game.

[carnalnirvana]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

i definately disagree with the assessment that pre snap controls are not sim.....

first sim is subjective, so as a designer who care about fans( both sides hardcore and casual) it should be in the game with an option to turn it off.

second, if we are going to apply (strict) sim to madden, then the GOD'S EYE camera angle has to be the first thing to go.....

its probably the most un-sim thing in the game, because the player i control knows every angle and release of every pass....every run etc...

i understand if its not possible to return it at the moment, but there are wayyyyyyyy more non sim elements parading unnoticed in the game........

[Hova57]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

i definately disagree with the assessment that pre snap controls are not sim.....

first sim is subjective, so as a designer who care about fans( both sides hardcore and casual) it should be in the game with an option to turn it off.

second, if we are going to apply (strict) sim to madden, then the GOD'S EYE camera angle has to be the first thing to go.....

its probably the most un-sim thing in the game, because the player i control knows every angle and release of every pass....every run etc...

i understand if its not possible to return it at the moment, but there are wayyyyyyyy more non sim elements parading unnoticed in the game........

Honestly i would run with the Backbreaker qb angle maybe a little higher or lower to look out more but we will see. I think the most i've got out of this thread is the use of certain words used caused an outcry and misinterpreted quotes.

[guaps]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

i definately disagree with the assessment that pre snap controls are not sim.....

first sim is subjective, so as a designer who care about fans( both sides hardcore and casual) it should be in the game with an option to turn it off.

second, if we are going to apply (strict) sim to madden, then the GOD'S EYE camera angle has to be the first thing to go.....

its probably the most un-sim thing in the game, because the player i control knows every angle and release of every pass....every run etc...

i understand if its not possible to return it at the moment, but there are wayyyyyyyy more non sim elements parading unnoticed in the game........

I can't agree!

For me, a simulation game is a game that represents football in a realistic manner. When I start up the game I want to see the players move and interact realistically (physics/collision detection/locomotion/animation stuff), and behave like the real counterpart football players (AI).

Simulation is all about the gameplay, not the camera angles IMO.

[Flamehead]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

So just to clarify - you think that out of the box, a game should take 2 hours to complete with the realistic amounts of penalties?

You don't agree with our stated vision of creating that 100% accurate representation of football but actually making the default gameplay settings and sliders a more approachable and enjoyable experience?

Not sure if I'm misinterpreting your comment or not, but here goes:

The average number of plays in an NFL game is 120. The average number of penalties per game is roughly 12. When I play a game with roughly 120 plays, I'd like to have roughly 12 penalties. If that takes 2 hours, I'm cool with that. Sim is enjoyable to me.

I don't care what the default gameplay settings and sliders are just so long as I can change them to make it more sim. That's one of the factors that makes EA's NHL franchise so steller--practically everything is customizable with sliders that actually work.

[Flamehead]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

this statement sums up the disconnect i feel sometimes with DEFAULT madden.....

it should be football, it should always be football.... madden arcade is quick and fun......

football should always be football ahhhh.....

Good post carnalnirvana, I completely agree. Football in and of itself is fun.

[Flamehead]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

But you shouldn't get 13 holding penalties and 5 false starts and take 2 hours to finish. Do you disagree with that?

If I get a realistic amount of penalties and it results in a two hour game, I'm ok with that.

[poster]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Ian, please make the penalty sliders work as intended. If sliders work as intended you can make all types of gamers happy. I know you must realize it is really that simple, why it hasn't gotten any attention over the years, I am not sure? Perhaps the suits/devs decided it wasn't a priority, or it is difficult to implement without ruining another aspect of the game?

I did not purchase this years game as of yet, but I think from the demo there was a hardcode mode or something to that affect. Perhaps like NBA 2K, have a sim or aracde mode that will adjust sliders to coincide with each setting. Sim will have penalty sliders cranked up to reflect the realism alot of us want. Then everyone can adjust from there. Simple in game tutorials can explain to casual or hard core games what the settings will do.

As far as pre snap, something needs to be done to get aspects back into madden that were in previous versions. If it can't be done pre-snap (please fix the quick CPU snapping of the football! :-) ), perhaps tie it into Gameplanning (again optional for those who don't care/on or off in a setting) where pre game/halftime/even after each quarter you can adjust defensive or offensive tendencies/options. Even tie it into taking of time outs, again somewhat similar to NBA 2K where you can choose where to focus.

Just some thoughts. Also, if more stat based overlays are created (like rushing leaders, QB rating leaders, sack leaders, PPG allowed. etc), please, please ensure that it stays on the screen for a proper amount of time so that it can be clearly read from beginning to end. In fact, have a prompt that says "press X or Y or whatever to skip".

All EA Sports games that have presented these overlays, have done such a poor job of implementing this. Makes absolutely no sense that all of this work goes into this, and it is displayed for 2-3 seconds. The Extra Point scores I believe does the same thing. Whose idea is it to display such a long list of readable items for 2-3 seconds?

It boggles my mind that something could be so poorly implemented. Not a knock on you at all, maybe you guys though you could please both parties (those who want to see/and those who want a quick game), but it is an **** fail for those who want to see.

The whole point of this message and others is to give us options for everything. We are all different and play the game a different way. Don't force us to play the game a certain way, let us choose how by giving us options. Thank you!