Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

[ryan36]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

From the TOS...

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....Be aware guys. And report anything that violates this with the little triangle/exclamation point icon. Nobody knows who reports things, so don't worry about being a snitch. We want to keep this useful and constructive for everyone. And I'm critical of certain areas of Madden too, and you can see some of my posts in the forum...but personal attacks aren't allowed, ok? (And this isn't for anyone in particular at the moment, just a heads up in advance)

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Wow, sounds like a wish list instead of comments on podcast #2.

Just an observation.

[at23steelers]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Wow, sounds like a wish list instead of comments on podcast #2.

Just an observation.

Yeah, fair point. But this was the thread Ian was responding in, and on the podcast they talked about how to improve Madden with better defense. So, that's the direction I went. To be fair, many posts on here have no relevance to podcast, and even go so far as to criticize Ian unnecessarily.

[rooney8]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

If I remember correctly for podcast #3 you are gonna try and get Josh Looman on the phone to talk about offline franchise. Is he trying to build Head Coach 12 or something more simple. Also could you get him to maybe tell us how the CBA is affecting things.

[Blue Line]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

hey Ian, I was hoping that you could address the tackle stats by including the assisted tackles in the total tackles when looking at the player card and lowering the number of sacks in the super sim. other than that, I feel that consecutive hits would give the game a much need boost on defense. i know this isn't a wish list however this thread does include a lot of talk about defense, so thats my $0.02

[PGaither84]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Ryan rephrases exactly what Ian said, Ryan gets the "good post" comment and agreement. And people wonder why Ian gets so frustrated:P

Not knocking you, Hova, you just happened to be illustrating it.

I think the thing that threw everyone was the way you guys were praising the "new direction" of EA's NBA franchise, which many took as your personal opinion of how sports games should be.

Actually, Ryan says that is what should be done, and while Ian may agree, we haven't see it yet in Madden. We cannot go online and play games on the "sim" setting. We are stuck with out of the box/post patch or nothing at all. Sliders are for off-line only.

I don't doubt that Ian agrees, but the next step is to do something about it. If not him, then who? I cannot go online and play OTP on "sim" only on Rookie through All-Madden.

Furthermore, this is not just about having the PI sliders "working" properly, there are many penalties that are not in the game, or do not work like they are supposed to, Intentional Grounding comes to mind the most.

[at23steelers]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Actually, Ryan says that is what should be done, and while Ian may agree, we haven't see it yet in Madden. We cannot go online and play games on the "sim" setting. We are stuck with out of the box/post patch or nothing at all. Sliders are for off-line only.

I don't doubt that Ian agrees, but the next step is to do something about it. If not him, then who? I cannot go online and play OTP on "sim" only on Rookie through All-Madden.

Furthermore, this is not just about having the PI sliders "working" properly, there are many penalties that are not in the game, or do not work like they are supposed to, Intentional Grounding comes to mind the most.

IMO, Ranked online games should all be the same difficulty. However, unranked games and online franchise especially should be able to utilize the sliders. Good idea!

[TDKing]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

ARGH I AM NOT SAYING THAT.

The point is that the DEFAULT settings should not have high penalty numbers and long game times. Period.

I am 100% in agreement with everyone that Madden should be able to have realistic stats, penalties, physics, locomotion, blocking, catching, etc, you name it. I'm just saying that the DEFAULT settings out of the box are going to be shorter games and less penalties. More sliders and customization and toggles are all means to get to an ultimate perfect simulation for those that want it.

Can we get these customization you speak of available for ONLINE games? and ONLINE leagues and franchises?

[tajai]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

agreed. there's no reason that unranked games online shouldn't be customizable. but even with that, I don't think many of us will ever return to Madden. whether it's EA execs that are preventing a real brand of football, not enough time given the short production cycle or just a disconnect between the developmental team and hardcore fans. it's pretty obvious we're nowhere near the same page.

at some point the rubber has to hit the road. "we'd like to" has to turn into "we have". fair or not, being the only NFL game on the market means tons of scrutiny and pretty high expectations.

Madden 10 was a nice step forward. Madden 11? 3 steps backwards.

I tend to agree with the ratings going "hollywood" as a big negative. No one should know who does the ratings. It's inevitable that NFL players/fans will try to influence ratings people if they are given access to them. Someone earlier mentioned paying a scout to do the ratings. Really?? He must be unaware of the passion of the community. I could find impartial, hardcore guys willing to do in-depth ratings for an advanced free copy of the game every year, in less than a week. you could easily assemble a team of 32 people (1 per team) and let your ratings czar simply oversee and make sure their ratings are consistent after you establish a baseline (i.e. no QB is rated higher than Manning or RB than CJ2K or Peterson) not that hard, really.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Are you doing anything to improve QB accuracy? Like the QB actually throwing to a spot, and the WR actually being ready for the ball and going after it, instead of the DB? The passing game could be so much more fun than what it is if DB/WR actually responded correctly to spacing. You see LITTLE glimpses of it being done right in your game, but for the most part it isn't at all. If a receiver has two steps on his man going downfield, the ball should be thrown in front of him, in stride. Not three feet behind him to the DB. Or hey, even if it is underthrown for whatever reason, why can't the WR go back for the ball and try to fight the DB for the catch? It's that kind of robotic element that hurts the gameplay. Or in a situation where you have a guy wide open, go to hit him, but by the time the ball gets to him there's 3 DB's swatting it away. For starters, the swatting is always way too accurate, how often do you see DB's even swat passes away? Secondly, why is it DB's can get to the ball nearly every single time it's in the air, before the receiver can? If a DB is simply in the general area of 10 yards of the receiver, he's going to jump in the air and float to the ball before it gets to my receiver.

I think it generally falls on not having a very good system for how the QB gets the ball to the receiver. On top of the long broken AI DB's. All due respect, these animations with the QB/DB/WR gameplay just look outright stupid, there's so much skating. It looks nothing like real football, and it's the main thing that has put me off of the past two Madden games. In so many schemes the CB will play off the receiver, giving themselves a cushion to hit him when he catches the ball to make sure to limit the YAC, but in Madden you don't see that. The DB is always RIGHT there. It's not like they're playing a coverage, but just running the WR's route for them, faster than them.

- Like some others have said, the game almost feels lifeless. It's like robots that you control. Instead, there needs to be more emotion, some from announcing, and some from the players celebrations, while also copying their level on the field (better pre-snap for QB's animations, Polamalu moving around the field before ball is snapped).

I couldn't agree more. Nothing sets the players apart from each other. Everyone is just a robot. There's no "human factor" in the game.

- If QB is scrambling in pocket, if he doesn't step into throw have it be more wobbly, and if he is about to get hit, don't let him still throw it, unless he is elusive like Big Ben, and take the sack. Have players like Big Ben well-represented in madden, as players that like to move around, and are tough to bring down.

It's pretty rare to even see the QB be elusive in the game. They come after you, you go down, that's that. It's rare to shake off a sack, at least for me. Even the rare times I break out of one, I'm immediately hit by someone else. That's even with Big Ben, who's made a career out of evading the rush. Again, it be something nice in terms of signature style to see.


I really hope you guys take in our feedback and combine it with your own image for this game. It's not that I mind an "arcade" style football game, I'd just like a more polished experience. Madden has not been polished or fluid in so many areas. We just want to see a HUGE change/uprade in the gameplay to give us a fresh experience. I would agree that default-wise, a game should not take over an hour to play, I totally see what you're saying there. But that's the beauty of giving players that option and creativity. I LOVE the Show, yet the majority of my games I'm simming to the later innings, and only playing all nine with certain starting pitchers, which with the right sliders, could take up to and over an hour. Why? Because I have the option to.

I certainly don't see how it would hurt to take the more "realistic" approach. It's not exactly hurting the other sports gaming franchises who have done it.

[Hova57]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Steelcurtain your right bout the animations its so frustrating that i can play ncaa and they have the best jump ball animations with the db and wr, but play madden the receiver has no awarness to even prepare to jump and the db is too busy looking at his feet to realize the ball is inthe air.

[ryan36]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Guys, talk about the podcast...not a wishlist

[at23steelers]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Guys, talk about the podcast...not a wishlist

So, you don't want us to criticize them, understandable. But what else should we do, if we don't give them a list of suggestions? They talked about Defense, and different additions to madden which makes madden 12 suggestions relevant. Do you want us to blow their quotes out of proportion regarding NBA Elite, and how they are not trying to be Sim which is clearly not the case? What exactly do you want us to talk about?

[ryan36]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

So, you don't want us to criticize them, understandable. But what else should we do, if we don't give them a list of suggestions? They talked about Defense, and different additions to madden which makes madden 12 suggestions relevant. Do you want us to blow their quotes out of proportion regarding NBA Elite, and how they are not trying to be Sim which is clearly not the case? What exactly do you want us to talk about?

Criticize all you want. Just don't do it in a personal fashion. I'm saying 200 line wishlist posts go in the wishlist thread...

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

ARGH I AM NOT SAYING THAT.

The point is that the DEFAULT settings should not have high penalty numbers and long game times. Period.

I am 100% in agreement with everyone that Madden should be able to have realistic stats, penalties, physics, locomotion, blocking, catching, etc, you name it. I'm just saying that the DEFAULT settings out of the box are going to be shorter games and less penalties. More sliders and customization and toggles are all means to get to an ultimate perfect simulation for those that want it.

Props to you Ian for coming on here and interacting with Madden fans and critics. I hope you dont get too frustrated with people misunderstanding your posts, it happens on forums to everyone.

I personally understand when you say that major changes take alot of time and development cycle focus. However, the problem is, IMO, what we as gamers are left with in the meantime. I could wait years for major improvements if the minor year to year improvements made Madden more immersive.

NFL 2k5 was NOT perfect by any means and had lots of room for improvement. However, that game did a really good job of using minor features to immerse the gamer. Customization, ESPN broadcast presentation, random events like food poisoning, etc.

I dont think Madden is a terrible game or that you guys dont work hard. What I do think, is that there has not been enough attention placed on atmosphere and immersion. If minor things like presentation and customization were focused on more every year, gamers would be more patient about major upgrades that might take 2 or more years to fully implement.

"Beyond Broadcast" has not helped make Madden immersive, quite the opposite, IMO. I have never been to an actual NFL game and I would think that goes for most Madden gamers. Network broadcasts of NFL games, shows and highlights is what makes the real NFL so immersive for most fans.

It works for the NFL so I think it would naturally work for Madden.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.