Madden: Editing Player Ratings in Franchise - Need Your Thoughts

[mkeller25]

Re: Madden: Editing Player Ratings in Franchise - Need Your Thoughts

First off Ian let me just say how impressed I am with your guys' continued commitment to involving the community in the decision making process. I cannot say enough how much that means to me as a hardcore fan.

Now, I think everyone here is missing the point and running wild with your guy's open invitation to suggestions for how to remedy the problem so I'll be as specific to your questions as I can Ian.
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Solution:

1. One person, a "power user," (whether offline or online) in control of all player editing aspects.
2. Only editable during offseason prior to contract time. That way if players manipulate players overalls, their contracts would follow suit IF their contract was up. By limiting the time to edit players to one point in time, you eliminate a lot of the cheesing aspect of it I would think.

Player editing aspects that need to be controlled by the power user during the one point in time of editing during the offseason:

1) Basics - Name/info, position, number, gear.
2) Potential. I'd prefer if this were numerical but A-F is fine if thats all you've got.
3) Additional Progression Pool - This is complex so I will explain below but essentially no 1 team's players can be edited past a certain, predetermined number of overall points. This fixes the issue of the game crashing due to a team not being able to resign players.

Essentially I'm suggesting you guys look at your current progression system and look how many overall points each team progresses each season. Obviously this system does not cause the game to break now so using it as a benchmark is a good start. If you look at those numbers and look at the type of numbers that would cause your system to break you can come up with a safe number to work with. Let me explain how it would work in detail.

Okay so basically the current progression system would still work as normal but, in addition, the power user would have the option to tack on additional progression where they see fit but pulling from a team specific pool of predetermined overall points (lets just say 20 for now.)

So each team has an additional 20 overall points to distribute to their players IF the power user determines a team worthy of those additional points - not all players teams are worthy obviously. Remember its only in control by 1 user as well so its not likely that all teams would receive all 20 points anyways. In a lot of cases it would just be 1 team that receives all 20.

The 20 points could be distributed however they like among the players, I think the obvious exception being the physical categories of player attributes. For example speed/acceleration/throwing power/strength etc etc could only go up 1 point per season. That way you don't have every player in the game a 99spd because you know that would happen. The 20 points could be spent all on one player if they wanted (i.e. that HB with 96trucking and C potential but is only 65 overall can now be A potential 85 overall) OR they could be evenly distributed and of course anything in between.
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The overall specific intent would be to fill in the holes that are naturally left behind by the generic in-game progression system. The idea is to give everyone additional flexibility, not make them God. Making them God can break the game as you already stated. Giving them additional tools to customize their experience should be the focus.

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Other ideas:

Limit additional progression during aforementioned one point in time editing to players who were top 5/10 at their position in a statistical category like passing, sacks, tackles etc.


Thanks again Ian.

[GlennN]

Re: Madden: Editing Player Ratings in Franchise - Need Your Thoughts

First of all, thank you for even asking. I appreciate that you even would solicit our opinions on this. I would like to just be able to edit in the offseason. I would especially like to be able to edit players in the draft pool - names, ratings, physical attributes, etc. Also, I would love if the limitation on draft picks, and the requirement of having a "minimum" number of players at certain positions, could be removed.

[rootofalleli]

Re: Madden: Editing Player Ratings in Franchise - Need Your Thoughts

There are a few reasons why I would want to edit players, mostly based on the condition of the draft classes.

1) Position changes: If I want to move a drafted DE to OLB, his terrible coverage skills will be an issue. Draft classes are filled with 220 lb, 65 STR OLBs though, which seem like bad fits in a 3-4. Similarly, I'd sometimes like to move a speedy QB to RB or WR (this happens IRL!), but the skills aren't there.

2) Special teams: drafted players rarely have any special teams abilities. Offensive players can't tackle and defensive players can't block.

3) Appearance: In years past, I enjoyed adjusting players' appearances. Sometimes I'd add 5-10 lbs to an undersized lineman every year, or subtract a little from a chubby one.

Points 1 & 2 are things that could be fixed in future years' draft classes. Point 3 is just me...

Thanks for listening! And guys, please try to keep it simple + stay on topic.

[Joborule]

Re: Madden: Editing Player Ratings in Franchise - Need Your Thoughts

Good discussion and points in this thread. Don’t have much to add aside from my $0.02

Please comment and be specific about what exactly you NEED to edit. What is your overall specific intent with wanting to edit these players? Are there certain time frames we can lock it to? Are there certain specific changes you could only be allowed to make instead of full league-wide control? By reducing the amount of variables we can look into finding ways to make this happen. Unfortunately allowing the user to set every player in the league anytime from a 0 to a 99 is not going to be an option because of all the instability it will cause...and we just don't have the testing man-power to ensure that the mode won't start crashing all over the place.

I would be the type of offline franchise player that would be hands off for the most part and let the environment control player development. The only purpose in me using the players edit would be to tweak equipment and appearance outside of head shape and skin tone.

Although I would be fairly basic in my use of player editing, I'm strongly in favour of full open endless and allowing the user as much control as logically possible. If players want to adjust any attributes for any reason for any player, they should have the ability too. So the issues that can create system errors should be addressed if possible so then people can adjust a player from 0 to 99 if need be. It's all about full control and customization, cause you can never go wrong with that.

• There are countless "cheesing" things that the user can do like dropping your player ratings right before the off-season, signing him to the cheapest deal possible, and then setting him back.
• Your save file can easily be rendered non-functional if you change enough CPU team's player's ratings where they can't re-sign any players. At this point the mode typically crashes or hangs and won't be recoverable from.
• We also don't display that potential rating in the edit player screen now, and if you were to edit the actual player's overall rating to be higher than his potential rating, the game has a chance of crashing in many different spots. We'd have to add it in and always force it to be higher than the OVR I guess.

In RE to cheesing and setting player attributes low for favourable contracts, I see that as a non issue since it's offline and doesn't affect anyone but the user. If we're going to be able to adjust player’s potential, within franchise mode, I don't think it's worth the effort to implement limitations. Adjusting a player attributes defeats the purpose of natural progression and letting that player performance dictate a player progression. If we're going to go down that road, then the worry of cheesing is fairly moot because editing player ratings is already unfair technically.

Plus, if it's going to create issues with cheating on contracts, then it seems that the contract logic AI is part the issue here due to what you posted as the second problem. As mentioned, player contracts pricing shouldn't be based on attributes so much, and should take much more consideration into recent player performance. There are examples of players who had a great season on a contract year and ended up getting a nice pay day, while there are players whose play may have dropped off, and their salary drops. If a player has high attributes but haven't proved to be worth what their attributes indicate, then that should factor into their price tag. Just because someone is a 99 overall QB, doesn't mean that they should be Peyton Manning money. And what about players that take a price cut and go below their market price tag? There should be other factors that can impact player salaries, but player performance is a big part of it, rather then attributes weighing so much.

BUT, thinking about this while typing this out, a player that has great attributes should get a good chunk of change still since they have 'potential' to be a impact player, regardless of player performance. Look at the deals these rookies are getting and they haven't proved anything yet. Unless a player recent performance leaves more to be desired, a good player should get a good salary still. So I can see why the editing of player attributes could be a problem.

On the potential/overall issue, I'll echo what was said by another poster on the potential rating should be more of a soft cap and not a hard cap. The problem that can occur if a player overall rating is higher than the potential ratings should a design flaw IMO. Potential isn't the end all, be all. Players can exceed and play far beyond their expected potential, and this should be reflected. The potential rating should be moreso a number and give an outlook on how the player could do.

[franch1se]

Re: Editing player ratings in Franchise - need your thoughts

for me, why not? Who cares, its our game let us do whatever we want (offline of course)

I would like to edit appearances mainly. Especially after the NFL Draft using imported NCAA draft classes. Example guys coming in with Dreads who shouldn't or being able to give guys dreads and change faces etc. However, I would rather have FULL ROSTERS (like Head Coach, also choose the active gameday roster) with a WORKING IR

[GoJayzGo]

Re: Editing player ratings in Franchise - need your thoughts

Seems like you are stuck between a rock and a hard place with this. For me, I don't feel the need to change player ratings in franchise mode. I edit player ratings in a separate roster file. In franchise, I view it as a simulation, so I just let the progression system work on its own. I edit equipment and things like that, but not player ratings

I usually do this also but I would like to be able to edit the ratings of my NCAA draft classes, since the import system is awful and players come in with wack ratings. It would be nice if offline franchises allowed us to edit the NCAA draft classes to get the more realism from that option. Outside of that I really don't see a need to edit player ratings.

[thekodinator]

Re: Madden: Editing Player Ratings in Franchise - Need Your Thoughts

No editing player ratings in franchise! Let the players' performance and simulation engines run that...

Instead, add more flexibility to the roster and everything else from a team management perspective.

[michapop9]

editing player ratings is done in other games during there franchise and they dont have the crashing issues.

For these people who say NO EDITING GIVE US MORE FLEXIBILITY AND MANAGEMENT OPTIONS! I say great! Give us more roster flexibility and management options and let us edit the ratings, if you dont want to then DONT! But do not limit others direction in which they want to take there own personal franchise because of you, because it wouldnt effect you if you dont use it, there are plenty of people who would want to this and couldnt because we wouldnt have it (Ian said it himself, giving us the ability was easy, it took ten minutes, other issues aside, 10 minutes to give us this ability leaves plenty of development time for more mangement options)

[jbrew2411]

Re: Madden: Editing Player Ratings in Franchise - Need Your Thoughts

This is a feature that is needed bad in all sports games. This needs to be an offline thing only. With it being offline then who cares if the user does what they want. If they crash the game then they can come on here an post their rant and we will all tell them they are the problem. As for showing potential for all players I saw why not. We can now control every team so we could view the potential ratings that way so what is wrong with allowing every potential rating to be viewed. You should add a warning in the game that editing roster may crash the game. Then we can proceed as we want.

[Skuxx24]

Thanks for the post Ian but we need this in period no question about it. It is frusrtating that when a roster update happens we have to restart the francise to get the right ratings we want i would like to make edits through out the season to replicate who i beleive is having a good season and who isnt if you add this feature you guys will be making a huge step for satisfying us franchise users.

But the important thing you need to add in regards to rating is player tendencies that is such a must now with so many diverse and diffrent types on players in the NFL these days we need to diffrentiate one player from another this is a must for me for example Asante Samuel like to jump routes on recievers a lot right with a tendencie slider to reflect this it would be massive another example for push rusher OLB's or 4-3 DE's making a tendencie slider on what moves they prefer to do when engaing a blocker a spin/bullrush or swin tendencies would be awesome..

Just have a quick look at NBA 2K11 and there tendencies if you can somehow implement something similar i will be more than happy

[havokeff]

Re: Madden: Editing Player Ratings in Franchise - Need Your Thoughts

Please comment and be specific about what exactly you NEED to edit.

As far as Franchise Mode goes? Everything should be editable. From player ratings, to player models, to stadiums and fan attire, to coaches and their schemes. Tall order, yes, but you asked.

What is your overall specific intent with wanting to edit these players?

Ego. I know football better than you. I know my team better than you do. Plain and simple. In my (the players) mind, I can do the ratings better than you can. Not many people will admit to this, and will hide behind the "I watch football all the time!" reasoning, but it is ego.
So, therefore, my INTENT is to make the game the way it should be, instead of the way the people from EA, that obviously haven't watched Dez Bryant make all those incredible catches... why is he rated so low?!?!, falsely think it should be.

Are there certain time frames we can lock it to?

I would say that before each season there should be a window. Example: Say the Browns pic up a Dan Marinoesqe QB in the draft 15 seasons in, but the coach they have is a run first guy. The ability to change his scheme to a pass first/pass heavy scheme would be nice.
Example: Frank Gore rushes for 2600 yards in franchise season 8. It would be nice to be able to award that performance with a hefty ratings boost.

IIRC, there was a version of Madden franchise that gave you a window to introduce created players before every season, a cool feature that went the way of the dodo for some reason. It should be similar to that.

Are there certain specific changes you could only be allowed to make instead of full league-wide control?

I know this is problematic, but as far as off line franchise goes? No. It is MY game, MY franchise. If I want a league of 99 rated guys, that it what I should be able to have.

By reducing the amount of variables we can look into finding ways to make this happen. Unfortunately allowing the user to set every player in the league anytime from a 0 to a 99 is not going to be an option because of all the instability it will cause...and we just don't have the testing man-power to ensure that the mode won't start crashing all over the place.

How much testing man power can this take? Set everyone to 99 and see what happens. One guy could get that done in a day. I volunteer my services if it is that much of a hassle for your in house guys to handle.

Or, and this is in all seriousness, ask the people here to test issues like this out. I think... know, that there are many people here that would have no qualms about helping YOU make a better product for us. Free of charge. Just put their names on a 'thank you' screen or something.

IMO though, I think though the best way of going about this is, as I mentioned, giving a window before pre-season starts each year, where almost everything is editable for that particular franchise.
As far as ratings, the way it is set up now works fine. You do it before you start your franchise. Although, I would give the ability to edit the player models/bodies specifically the way you do when you create a player.

[ZoneKIller]

Re: Madden: Editing Player Ratings in Franchise - Need Your Thoughts

IDK!! THis isnt Madden tradition.I mean Madden has always been the one sports game where you had to play good to be good.Madden has NEVER allowed rating editing MID-Franchise.NEVER!!!

How can they (EA) limit gamers when we have never been able to do this.I like 2k.Hell I love SONY .But I have always been a Madden fan.Prefered it over 2k on PS2. And my friends and I was always like (yeah you gotta be good to play Maddens Franchise ,aint no cheating like 2k) WE WERE YOUNG and just talking smack to 2k guys.And thats my point!!! Madden has been like this forever! Look dont turn Madden into 2k.Keep Madden as it is,or how it used to be(PS2) Its just not Madden tradition.

However everything else we can change when we are creating a player is what we should be able to edit mid-franchise.

I say if people want to edit ratings,allow us to just edit their Potentials Grade! Should be VERY easy.I do it in Franchise Mode now with the DLC twice a season.Thats how I make sure Jake Locker and Mark INgram become superstars in my Franchise.And since its allowed already through a DLC,it shouldnt be that hard to program and shouldnt cause any crashes .

I dont understand how people would want to edit some1 in their FRanchise to play like they are in real life.Its two VERY different worlds.For instance. I bet if your HB was tearing the feild up against every1,breaking NFL records and what not in ur Franchise,but in real life ,they got a carreer ending injury.What are you going to do Make them injured in ur world even though he was 10x better in ur world?

Madden used to be the GOAT.THis is my opinion of why its slipping with sales.Madden has left its roots and is going in the directin of IDK.Go back and be Madden from PS2.quit trying to be some1 else.

[British Bronco]

Re: Editing player ratings in Franchise - need your thoughts

Short Answer:

I want to be able to change a player's position, equipment, jersey number, and physical build while in franchise mode. I want to change a player's ratings outside of franchise mode if i disagree with Donny's ratings, along with that player's potential outside of franchise mode for the same reason. A perfect example is how EA has every first round draft pick an A potential player except Tim Tebow. I want to change that.

Being able to change a player's position and equipment is a big deal to me and something that puts Madden apart from 2k5. When I go back and play 2k5 I miss not being able to make these changes.

Ian

Rather then repeat I'm going to +1 this excellent summary by PGaither. I'm in complete agreement and what he is proposing sounds achievable within the technical limits you have outlined.

Thanks Ian for asking for our views. Please keep progression in the game, I don't agree with some here that it should be removed. Progression helps keep the rosters balanced and stops the ratings for WR's, RB's etec spiraling out of control when they put up high stats in one year.

But make progression editable and keep it hidden (unless we poke around in the editing screen) for rookies, so we don't know in the first mini-camp who will be a success and who will fail.

[ucas005]

Re: Madden: Editing Player Ratings in Franchise - Need Your Thoughts

I also agree with PGaither. I don't care so much for editing ratings once I've started a franchise, but I want to be able to change a player's position, equipment, jersey number, and physical build while in franchise mode. Outside franchise is when I want TOTAL control. It's not even so much current players I want to edit as much as it is wanting to edit CPU generated or imported draft class players. I LOVE the edit control I have with new recruits in NCAA during dynasty for all teams CPU included. Although, I don't like they took away my ability to edit height, weight and positions. They need to bring that back. It allows us to fix what we consider glitches in the system. ie 5-10 170 QB with 85 break tackle/trucking for a new recruit. I want to be able to edit his weight and build to a more realistic weight and player size for that rating.

[michapop9]

I cannot believe these people who think it shouldnt be allowed, THEY HAVE NO GOOD REASONING, YOU DONT HAVE TO USE IT JUST BECAUSE ITS IN THERE! The crashing instances can be overcome, but not to give us it because its never been in a Madden game??? Seriously??