Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

The pre game flow is very very very much like a real broadcast flow showing the quarterbacks, the team getting hyped up the fans outside all of it is very much a lot like what a broadcast does at the beginning of the game, the only thing is, they need to work a lot more on broadcast elements during the game, other than that I feel they have the post game and pre game broadcast elements well represented.

Good point. I got so high on my network broadcast presentation "soap box", I forgot about the pregame/postgame additions. That said, the fact that there aren't more network elements, the pregame storylines are broken and there isnt a coherent "Show" element to tie it all together, makes it pretty forgettable.

I feel like the next thing that would be said is "they can't do everything in one year" which I understand. However, they can implement it in a more sensible way, IMO. If they cant add both a show element and pregame/postgame elements in the same year, add the show first. Then add the pregame/postgame elements and intertwine them with the existing show element. Don't add the show one year and take it out the next year or have it totally disconnected from newly added pregame/postgame elements. That's what they did in Madden 11.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Good point. I got so high on my network broadcast presentation "soap box", I forgot about the pregame/postgame additions. That said, the fact that there aren't more network elements, the pregame storylines are broken and there isnt a coherent "Show" element to tie it all together, makes it pretty forgettable.

I feel like the next thing that would be said is "they can't do everything in one year" which I understand. However, they can implement it in a more sensible way, IMO. If they cant add both a show element and pregame/postgame elements in the same year, add the show first. Then add the pregame/postgame elements and intertwine them with the existing show element. Don't add the show one year and take it out the next year or have it totally disconnected from newly added pregame/postgame elements. That's what they did in Madden 11.

When I look at the things that other development teams have done, I say the 'can't do it all in one year' argument should be officially thrown out the window. The bar has been raised, and no doubt Madden 12 and on have to step it up in ALL areas - gameplay, presentation, commentary, and career modes. It seems that they are making the effort, just hope it doesn't all go for naught once again.

[at23steelers]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Why I graded it so low during the game is because they don't have the stats as I mentioned and also when they show the sideline interactions, the announcers don't talk about what they're showing, which makes it seem insignificant and forgettable. This is why most people, like myself press A and skip over it, because there is nothing there that you haven't seen before, and seems old and repetitive. Imagine, on replays if the announcers analyze the play whether it be on offense or on defense, and point out interesting things, then there is a good chance of watching it. However, if you're just going to show me the same thing I just saw but just in a different angle and putting it in such slow-motion, that it takes 10 seconds to watch it, I will skip over it, and continue playing or pause the game and go to instant replay myself. To cut down on that time, for instance, on the QB to WR deep ball throws, have a split screen of QB getting hit on left side and WR running route and trying to catch ball on right side. On another replay, calculate how fast the defense is putting pressure on the QB. Just like the pre-game intro, I have heard the comparing the two QB's a thousand times, and the win chant hundreds of times, so now I just skip over them. However, if they had specific keys to the game, and specific key player comparisons, with unique chants, then I would watch it every time. No matter how good it may be, if it's the same thing every time, you won't watch it after a few times of seeing it.

[PacMan3000]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

^^You make a great point about the replays. And it's probably not thought of that much because it's simply not in Madden.

But replays are supposed to be informative. They're supposed to illustrate how that play effectively happened. They aren't just supposed to show you what you just watched from a different angle.

So we need to see Chris Collinsworth break out the telestrater and start circling players he'd like us to watch on the replay. If the quarterback gets sacked, we need to see which OL screwed up his block, not see a close up shot of the QB getting sacked. We already know he got sacked.

I love watching a great play I made over again as much as the next. But Madden 12 needs to implement ways in which the commentary and replays work to both entertain and inform the gamer.

The backtrack feature was on the right track, but it was too long and happened too infrequently.

I also think, in general, there just needs to be much more conversation and commentary. There are far too many plays I run in Madden 11 where Chris just won't say anything. Or Gus won't call my players by their names ("he made the catch" or "the quarterback drops back").

It makes everything so impersonal and off-putting.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Yawn...

It gets tiring getting an excuse for why things are lacking. Everything that any company produces takes work. Customers don't want to hear excuses. It takes me time to make the 65 dollars it costs to buy the game. Big deal. I'm a software engineer too. If we told our customers things like, "That's too hard", "That takes a long time", we'd be out of business very quickly. That's a crock. What it really means is that they don't have the chops, they don't have the budget, or they don't want to invest in the effort. Or maybe it's just all 3. I don't hear other developers saying that. I saw 2k completely implement the ESPN name, likenesses, overlays and commentary into a game in one year. On top of making the greatest gameplay improvements in a sports game ever. I never heard them complaining. They also didn't have exclusive access to the NFL, unlimited resources in money and development, etc. etc. These podcasts are not helpful to EA or to the community. They are a turn off because it's just a session to give excuses.

How about finishing things you started. Pro-Tak (untouched in 11), Online Franchise (incomplete in 10, got story of server side so can be completed without a new version, 11 came out, still no updates, fixes, sliders, salary cap, etc.), Halftime presentation (untouched), Animations (look exactly the same). The list goes on. Note to the Tiburon guys... You can afford to be a little arrogant when your product is actually really good. Otherwise, stay humble and focus on what really needs work.

Madden 11 is a big improvement since Madden 06, but it's still a very lacking game. The Exclusive license is selling it, and it's wearing thin.

Ditto and I share the same sentiment.

[Rayp]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

I dont care about franchise or other modes.

What should be of focus to me is running and tackling, I dont know if its possible with the engine but remove the magnetic tackles I remember Madden 2001 on 64 You could actualy bounce off people, Madden 11 the tackle initiates to early. Tackles NEED to be more Dynamic, I love ball carries can make attempts to break a takle once engaged but other defenders NEED to beable to also interact with no bowling pins..I hope you guys fully address that if anything its one of the main reasons I dont play anymore..

Basically just make 12's focus gameplay..Offense, Defence Speacial teams..Any structure will fall no matter how beautiful it is (graphics) if the foundation is not layed. MANY problems would be fixed because imo most of maddens gameplay problems stem from tackling issues. Good luck with 2012

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Why I graded it so low during the game is because they don't have the stats as I mentioned and also when they show the sideline interactions, the announcers don't talk about what they're showing, which makes it seem insignificant and forgettable. This is why most people, like myself press A and skip over it, because there is nothing there that you haven't seen before, and seems old and repetitive. Imagine, on replays if the announcers analyze the play whether it be on offense or on defense, and point out interesting things, then there is a good chance of watching it. However, if you're just going to show me the same thing I just saw but just in a different angle and putting it in such slow-motion, that it takes 10 seconds to watch it, I will skip over it, and continue playing or pause the game and go to instant replay myself. To cut down on that time, for instance, on the QB to WR deep ball throws, have a split screen of QB getting hit on left side and WR running route and trying to catch ball on right side. On another replay, calculate how fast the defense is putting pressure on the QB. Just like the pre-game intro, I have heard the comparing the two QB's a thousand times, and the win chant hundreds of times, so now I just skip over them. However, if they had specific keys to the game, and specific key player comparisons, with unique chants, then I would watch it every time. No matter how good it may be, if it's the same thing every time, you won't watch it after a few times of seeing it.

Preaching to the choir my friend

[Rocky]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

^^You make a great point about the replays. And it's probably not thought of that much because it's simply not in Madden.

But replays are supposed to be informative. They're supposed to illustrate how that play effectively happened. They aren't just supposed to show you what you just watched from a different angle.

So we need to see Chris Collinsworth break out the telestrater and start circling players he'd like us to watch on the replay. If the quarterback gets sacked, we need to see which OL screwed up his block, not see a close up shot of the QB getting sacked. We already know he got sacked.

I love watching a great play I made over again as much as the next. But Madden 12 needs to implement ways in which the commentary and replays work to both entertain and inform the gamer.

The backtrack feature was on the right track, but it was too long and happened too infrequently.

I also think, in general, there just needs to be much more conversation and commentary. There are far too many plays I run in Madden 11 where Chris just won't say anything. Or Gus won't call my players by their names ("he made the catch" or "the quarterback drops back").

It makes everything so impersonal and off-putting.

I was reading an article on NBA2K11's presentation. They stated that they brought in real television broadcast workers to significantly upgrade their presentation idea. We all see how that turned out.

Madden needs to do the same. Bring in guys from CBS, NBC, and FOX to help the Madden Team present the same elements that we see in a TV broadcast on Sunday.

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

I dont care about franchise or other modes.

What should be of focus to me is running and tackling, I dont know if its possible with the engine but remove the magnetic tackles I remember Madden 2001 on 64 You could actualy bounce off people, Madden 11 the tackle initiates to early. Tackles NEED to be more Dynamic, I love ball carries can make attempts to break a takle once engaged but other defenders NEED to beable to also interact with no bowling pins..I hope you guys fully address that if anything its one of the main reasons I dont play anymore..

Basically just make 12's focus gameplay..Offense, Defence Speacial teams..Any structure will fall no matter how beautiful it is (graphics) if the foundation is not layed. MANY problems would be fixed because imo most of maddens gameplay problems stem from tackling issues. Good luck with 2012

First off, Happy Thanksgiving everybody.

Now, I don't understand posts like this and I hope the devs don't take this to heart. They focus on GAMEPLAY every year, while ignoring so many other areas for years at a time. I don't think there has ever been a game with perfect gameplay, that area can always improve and should be improved. However, I dont believe most gamers want to play a game with no presentation, graphical or franchise upgrades while the devs spend YEARS getting the gameplay perfect. (In fairness to Ian, he did say he has learned that lesson and will work on everything and hopefully he will.)

I was reading an article on NBA2K11's presentation. They stated that they brought in real television broadcast workers to significantly upgrade their presentation idea. We all see how that turned out.

Madden needs to do the same. Bring in guys from CBS, NBC, and FOX to help the Madden Team present the same elements that we see in a TV broadcast on Sunday.

This is what Im talking about Rocky, they have ESPN on contract and full access to the NFL network. They don't have to use the network logos but they can simply get these networks to instruct them on how to do NETWORK broadcasting. Of all the areas in both Madden and NCAA football, the lacking presentation elements are the most frustrating for me. Nobody ever buys a sports game and dislikes it because the presentation is too much like tv. I'm not talking about just throwing in a bunch of random NFL cut scenes, but tying everything together in a cohesive and coherent BROADCAST.

To anyone saying that 2k and EA are two different companies with different talent, resources etc, I offer these 2 videos:

http://www.operationsports.com/videos/517/ncaa-basketball-10-trailer-espn-integration/

http://www.operationsports.com/videos/516/ncaa-basketball-10-trailer-cbs-integration/

This is an EA made sports game focusing on using tv-style broadcasting, dual broadcast teams, both commentators in the recording booth TOGETHER and integration to make it ALL coherent. The only thing missing is a show in the "Dynasty" to recap all that has happened every week and tie everything together. At23steelers asked why they just don't copy NCAA basketball in an earlier post and what makes this so frustrating is that, NCAA Football 11 actually implemented most of the features from this game EXCEPT the network broadcast elements, WTF? I just don't understand why EA thinks these elements are not VITAL for an immersive football game experience like they are to college basketball.

I fully agree with you guys that want realistic gameplay elements, franchise upgrades, player ratings, etc. But, if these devs refuse to even copy networks and other games for Madden 12 network broadcast presentation, what hope is there for them to copy real football or other games for Madden 12 football gameplay, IR, uniforms, playbooks, ratings, etc?

[Rayp]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

To me gameplay comes first. Madden, being the only exclusive title "should" give gamers the most authentic sim experience. I personally do not feel this experience when I play because the gameplay: Offense, Defense, and Speacial Teams does not feel complete. Yes presentation is important, its just I think a better tightened up gameplay base should be implemented. No game is perfect, but I hope EA is striving for perfection in 2012 personally for ME in the gameplay department.

Basically add more realism to there core gameplay. Im glad they are looking into the bowling pin animations...its the main reason I stopped playing and Im sure that 18 percent sales drop would lower or dissapear if the gameplay issues that plauged the game for years where finally taken care of and corrected.

[at23steelers]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

If the announcing sounded like this from Gus, and he had Chris in the booth instead of Owen, then the commentary would be outstanding. They have the resources, they just have to execute, and make it sound like it is unscripted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LimPy84yAuM

[jWILL253]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

SMH. This is utterly ridiculous. I'ma have to be plain honest on this post.

So just to clarify - you think that out of the box, a game should take 2 hours to complete with the realistic amounts of penalties?

You don't agree with our stated vision of creating that 100% accurate representation of football but actually making the default gameplay settings and sliders a more approachable and enjoyable experience?

To the part in bold, YES! That's what the users on this site want! We want EVERYTHING sim, not just gameplay. That goes for presentation, penalties, etc. If you have the goal of creating the ultimate sim, then the penalties should work on ANY DIFFICULTY OR SETTINGS. The problem is, the only penalties that work are Holding, False Start (but only for human-controlled teams), and Facemask. But, on default settings, the PI penalties don't work AT ALL. It would be one thing if you were keeping it down to a minimum to make the game end quicker and to make it enjoyable for casual gamers, but if that were the case, then ALL the penalties would be turned off. But, as it stands, on default settings, Holding gets called at a decent clip, False Start NEVER gets called on the CPU (maybe because the CPU never does a two-count), Facemask animations occur too often, and PI NEVER gets called.

Also, I would like to comment on the fact that most of this thread has been negative, especially with some of your posts, Ian. All I've read on here, is how you and your team CAN'T get something done, and you HOTLY debating with some of the users on here. THIS is the reason why everyone questions this team, and the reason why Madden sales are down 18% this year: the disconnect between your team and your base. You're the ONLY dev I've seen on here in my 2 years since joining, that will ARGUE with his base. I have yet to see any of the 2K, SCEA, or even the Elite devs do this.

To compare, the NCAA team is holding a "wishlist tournament" on TheGamingTailgate.com to let the community decide (or at least vote) on what new additions are gonna be on NCAA 12's agenda. I can barely imagine any such thing happening with this team. http://bit.ly/ey5XtQ

What happened to "the customer is always right"? Every suggestion that has been made in this thread is logical, and possible. But, you've just been giving us reasons why stuff can't be done, or just plain arguing with us. And, I'm not bashing at all, and even the amount of bashing from other users has been almost non-existent in this thread, save for a couple posts.

I'm just sayin', man. This is ridiculous...

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

SMH. This is utterly ridiculous. I'ma have to be plain honest on this post.



To the part in bold, YES! That's what the users on this site want! We want EVERYTHING sim, not just gameplay. That goes for presentation, penalties, etc. If you have the goal of creating the ultimate sim, then the penalties should work on ANY DIFFICULTY OR SETTINGS. The problem is, the only penalties that work are Holding, False Start (but only for human-controlled teams), and Facemask. But, on default settings, the PI penalties don't work AT ALL. It would be one thing if you were keeping it down to a minimum to make the game end quicker and to make it enjoyable for casual gamers, but if that were the case, then ALL the penalties would be turned off. But, as it stands, on default settings, Holding gets called at a decent clip, False Start NEVER gets called on the CPU (maybe because the CPU never does a two-count), Facemask animations occur too often, and PI NEVER gets called.

Also, I would like to comment on the fact that most of this thread has been negative, especially with some of your posts, Ian. All I've read on here, is how you and your team CAN'T get something done, and you HOTLY debating with some of the users on here. THIS is the reason why everyone questions this team, and the reason why Madden sales are down 18% this year: the disconnect between your team and your base. You're the ONLY dev I've seen on here in my 2 years since joining, that will ARGUE with his base. I have yet to see any of the 2K, SCEA, or even the Elite devs do this.

To compare, the NCAA team is holding a "wishlist tournament" on TheGamingTailgate.com to let the community decide (or at least vote) on what new additions are gonna be on NCAA 12's agenda. I can barely imagine any such thing happening with this team. http://bit.ly/ey5XtQ

What happened to "the customer is always right"? Every suggestion that has been made in this thread is logical, and possible. But, you've just been giving us reasons why stuff can't be done, or just plain arguing with us. And, I'm not bashing at all, and even the amount of bashing from other users has been almost non-existent in this thread, save for a couple posts.

I'm just sayin', man. This is ridiculous...

I agree with some of your points, but disagree with some as well.

I'm sure the casuals, out of the box, don't want a 2 hour game filled with penalties and what not. My son is 15 and there is no way he will sit down and play a 2 hour football game. Heck, I don't want a 2 hour game, unless there are saves, I just don't have the time or patience to sit down in front of the TV and play a sports video game for that length of time.

If the sliders are working properly, including penalty sliders and all the other sliders, then I will adjust the game accordingly from there. Even in NBA 2K, you can adjust the sliders to your hearts content and not play a 2 hour game.

Give me options, that's all I care for.

[rooney8]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Firstly Madden11 sales are down 18% for October compared to last year. They did well August and September so are probably up on last year.
I don't see where two hours is coming from. With gameflow and accelerated clock on full and like fifa give an option to have cutscenes to a minimum and you would struggle to make one hour with all the penalties in the world.
Roadman in Madden11 sliders can get realistic stats and scores but not gameplay.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Roadman in Madden11 sliders can get realistic stats and scores but not gameplay.

I thought that goes without saying. Just not interested in a football game that goes 2hrs.

As I said, 2k hoops doesn't drag on that long.