Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

[guaps]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Firstly Madden11 sales are down 18% for October compared to last year. They did well August and September so are probably up on last year.
I don't see where two hours is coming from. With gameflow and accelerated clock on full and like fifa give an option to have cutscenes to a minimum and you would struggle to make one hour with all the penalties in the world.
Roadman in Madden11 sliders can get realistic stats and scores but not gameplay.

The cutscenes in Madden have annoyed me for years (I even once twitted Ian Cummings if they had any statistics on how many cutscenes are skipped in Madden, as I though it might reduce time more than GameFlow).

FIFA 11 and NHL 11 have almost no cutscenes and only a few replays out of the box (both cutscenes and replays can be skipped instantly, if needed). Those games are very playable to me, because the presentation makes me feel like I'm playing a game rather than watching one. One of the things I feel many developers (other than EA Canada) have misunderstood when developing their sports games.

[rooney8]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

The cutscenes in Madden have annoyed me for years (I even once twitted Ian Cummings if they had any statistics on how many cutscenes are skipped in Madden, as I though it might reduce time more than GameFlow).

FIFA 11 and NHL 11 have almost no cutscenes and only a few replays out of the box (both cutscenes and replays can be skipped instantly, if needed). Those games are very playable to me, because the presentation makes me feel like I'm playing a game rather than watching one. One of the things I feel many developers (other than EA Canada) have misunderstood when developing their sports games.

Agree 100%. I would love a way to minimize the number of cuscenes.

[SteelerSpartan]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Agree 100%. I would love a way to minimize the number of cuscenes.

There should always be a way for both.....Options!!!

2k and The Show kill Madden in Presentation...and its time for EA to drop the "Beyond Broadcast" stuff and get some TV network people in there to help show them how to make it all flow like we see on TV

[Phixius]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

I thought that goes without saying. Just not interested in a football game that goes 2hrs.

As I said, 2k hoops doesn't drag on that long.

What's with all this 2 hour talk? Most Madden games last at least an hour and most NFL games are 3 hours. No one told people to play when they have somewhere to be in 30 minutes or play 6 games in one day.

The most logical solution is to play the game when you have the time. Football is a strategic sport that requires patience. I want time to develop my strategy and have time to make adjustments. I'm not going to figure out my opponent in just one drive. I can't read the defense in a pre-snap and make the necessary adjustments in 5 seconds. I can't read the offense and make adjustments to motion shifting or an audible.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

What's with all this 2 hour talk? Most Madden games last at least an hour and most NFL games are 3 hours. No one told people to play when they have somewhere to be in 30 minutes or play 6 games in one day.

The most logical solution is to play the game when you have the time. Football is a strategic sport that requires patience. I want time to develop my strategy and have time to make adjustments. I'm not going to figure out my opponent in just one drive. I can't read the defense in a pre-snap and make the necessary adjustments in 5 seconds. I can't read the offense and make adjustments to motion shifting or an audible.

It's Ian that mentioned about playing a game out of the box in 2hrs with penalties. His point was the avg gamer doesn't want to play a game out of the box in 2 hrs.

You are missing my point. I know all NFL games are 3 hrs, but I lead a busy life with three kids and a wife. I don't have time for a 2 hr game, unles I can save a game. Madden doesn't offer that. All I care about is getting in realistic game play with realistic stats in approx. 1 hrs time and I'm a happy camper. All of us lead different lives, that is why it's important to have options. If you want to play a game for 2 hrs and have the time for it, hopefully EA puts up a slider option for that. That option just isn't for me.

Never said football wasn't a strategic sport. Really don't know where that came from.

I don't have a time issue, I can play the game in an hour. I thought Ian's point was that if they up the penalties out of the box, the game will hover around the 2 hr mark.

[TDKing]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Agree 100%. I would love a way to minimize the number of cuscenes.

OPTIONS my friend, its all about user options

[Phixius]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

It's Ian that mentioned about playing a game out of the box in 2hrs with penalties. His point was the avg gamer doesn't want to play a game out of the box in 2 hrs.

You are missing my point. I know all NFL games are 3 hrs, but I lead a busy life with three kids and a wife. I don't have time for a 2 hr game, unles I can save a game. Madden doesn't offer that. All I care about is getting in realistic game play with realistic stats in approx. 1 hrs time and I'm a happy camper. All of us lead different lives, that is why it's important to have options. If you want to play a game for 2 hrs and have the time for it, hopefully EA puts up a slider option for that. That option just isn't for me.

Never said football wasn't a strategic sport. Really don't know where that came from.

I don't have a time issue, I can play the game in an hour. I thought Ian's point was that if they up the penalties out of the box, the game will hover around the 2 hr mark.

Then people shouldn't play the game if don't have a few hours to spend. Keep in mind, I'm speaking from a online perspective. I get sick of people leaving games because they thought it was a good idea to play knowing they have somewhere to be in 30 minutes. I agree there should be more customizations. I never accused you of saying football wasn't a strategic sport. I was pointing out that being that it is, football requires the time needed for executing a game plan and making adjustments.

Back to Ian's point, Some of the penalizes doesn't occur at all, such as pass interferences, clipping and so forth. I don't buy his reasoning due to timing restraints. There's no 12 man on the field, there's no illegal substitution, no illegal motion, illegal formation, etc. I rarely see a pass interference called but yet they is trying to create the ultimate NFL simulation game but leaving out major penalties in the NFL due to the game taking too long, I don't buy that.

[jWILL253]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

I agree with some of your points, but disagree with some as well.

I'm sure the casuals, out of the box, don't want a 2 hour game filled with penalties and what not. My son is 15 and there is no way he will sit down and play a 2 hour football game. Heck, I don't want a 2 hour game, unless there are saves, I just don't have the time or patience to sit down in front of the TV and play a sports video game for that length of time.

If the sliders are working properly, including penalty sliders and all the other sliders, then I will adjust the game accordingly from there. Even in NBA 2K, you can adjust the sliders to your hearts content and not play a 2 hour game.

Give me options, that's all I care for.

That's another problem. They seem to think that catering to the casual crowd is gonna bring more returning customers. Problem is, they're attracting the WRONG casual crowd.

Put it like this: you have those casual gamers that hardly play sports games, but when they do, they always go for the big dogs, like NBA 2K11. And, even though they don't play sports games that often, they still play because A.) Jordan's on the cover, and B.) The basic, "in-your-face" things (like graphics, presentation, etc.) are good enough to make them want to play without caring about ANY of the nuances of NBA Basketball, or how HARD the game is. And, THOSE casual users have a higher chance to come back and become hardcore sports gamers.

But, the crowd EA is going after, is the Wii-casuals, i.e. the moms, dads, and little kids who only game sparingly. Problem with that is, you have to attract those people with gimmicks to get them to play. Not to mention, most people who play on the Wii, were never considered gamers to begin with, and they never will be. People play Wii Sports bowling because it's fun at a party, not because they wanna set the record for most consecutive strikes, or work on their release in preparation for an actual game of bowling.

NBA 2K can cater to casuals just fine, without the gimmicks; They get attracted by word of mouf, not a cheap gameplay feature that doesn't work...

[Reejer]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Hola Ian,

Nice to see that you are being active on the boards. I understand that you shouldn't focus your attention to modes that aren't being played by the majority of Maddenites, but Superstar Mode was fun to play (Madden 06' PS2) before it was "streamlined" (or stripped of any fun/value). SS-Mode had so much potential, and was my favorite mode it's first year, but then you guys took control, options, and depth away from the player.

And for years Offline Franchise Mode has been the most popular, yet it has seemed to be one of the least focused on modes, and has also seen a bit of "streamlining". I have bought Madden each year (since it's inception), but made the decision not to buy M-11 because Offline F-Mode isn't as good as it was back on Madden 06' PS2.

I haven't even rented it, and I don't feel the urge to bump it up on my Gamefly Q, because I am content playing my old M-06' PS2 (especially since I pawned all of my other Maddens earlier this year). So from an old-fart Maddenite: Please don't disappoint the loyal Offline folks who have bought Madden from the start, and don't give up on SS-mode it could actually be great.

You could package a great SS-mode with a deep (HC-09' deep) Offline F-Mode and you can call it Madden "The Road to Canton". And you can produce a seperate title with all of the online stuff, and you can call that, Madden "Online". I know that it would tweak some of the people off, so you could drop the price of each title to $35, or $65 for a combo-pack.

I am looking forward to the next podcast (esp. the F-Mode info). And, if you can, please stick M-06' (PS2) in and take notes (especially progression/regression, and F/SS-Modes depth/replay value).

Thanks for listening,
The Reejer

[Keenan G.]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

I want Madden 12 to have a real deep franchise. Madden 11 is awful and was just like last year. I made the mistake of buying Madden 11 this year. It wont happen again. If Madden 12 isnt up to par then I wont be getting it. I have been playing Madden for a long time. I just hope they can get it right next year. Or else I would be playing NCAA 12 and NBA2k12.

[blood9585]

I have a list of things for Madden. I've played this game for years so I've had a wishlist for the past 3 years. Here's mine for 2012.


Madden 2012 Must-Haves

I understand these videos are from madden 09, but the same animations remain.

*******GAMEPLAY & Presentation*******

Tweak the following:
Madden 09 vs. NFL 2K5 in Trucking (Needs improvement)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM2wjq7GGic

Madden 09: Adrian Peterson steamrolls a 300+ lb. defensive tackle. Flaws of Rush offense. (weight balancing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDB4eO2jIRc

Madden 09: Unrealistic Pass Defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVMnlfEgV4k

Madden 09: "Bizarre" Rush Defense pursuit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CgV5orMPPU

Madden 09: "Suction" Blocking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNmCItQasBM

Procedural Awareness (Player looking into weird spaces and still make plays. Getting lucky)

"Robo QB" to "Agile QB" by pressing turbo, always gives advantage to not pressing turbo at all. Like defenders only react to turbo.

No shifting/rubbing off tackles and piles. (when me guys just run up to a guy/pile and rubs off) Show at least a tackle attempt animation. (tumbleweeds)

"Playoff and SUPER BOWL should feel more intense (more media and crowd interaction)"

Fines/Suspensions (for players for too many personal fouls or illegal hits)

More realistic in-game ads and short interviews

Online franchise same as offline. (all offline features should carry over)

Do something to pump up the draft. Maybe have the commish announce the first 5 picks or something.

Commentary should update with the NFL season (NBA 2k like)



*******STATS/FEATURES*******


Post game and half time highlights from the game just played, maybe from other games around the league as well in franchise modes.

Real fonts used for players name on jerseys

We should be able to encourage players to retire, or ask them to sign with team from retirement or FA with incentives besides money as well. (maybe 3 options like guaranteed starter spot, guaranteed to sign another player, more touches/playing time, etc.)

CPU trading with itself, particularly the trading of draft picks (which happens in real life) ***might be memory hog***

More descriptive user manual (ex. explain the sliders functions)

80 man roster for the preseason (doubt its possible at this point) ***might be memory hog***

Be able to edit or create packages

Remove the limitations on number of people who go through training camp. In real life, every player goes through training camp. For example: each QB should be able to do each QB drill, every linebacker and defensive back should be able to do the tackling and swat ball drills. Only limitation is days available to train before season and stamina (recovery time)

Remove the limitations on how many rookies can be scouted. In real life teams "fully" scout more than just 15 people.***might be memory hog***

Expand custom playbooks and allow users to create PA plays, use delayed patterns and releases, and trick options in the create-a-play feature.***might be memory hog***

Individualized shoes! Make shoes a selectable/editable piece of equipment (bring in the name brand knock offs, just like facemasks, visors, elbow pads, etc. ***might be memory hog***

Ability to hire specialty coaches (more than the 4 we have now) ***might be memory hog***

create your own coach

User retire option (not auto retire superstar at 32)

Not always having a player go bad in progression when he hits around 32 (hiatius in some areas ok, but some skills get better with time.

Being able to trade your punter and kicker (is this allowed in real life even)

Customizable practice squad, and ability to import online franchise team into offline mode.

Abliity to persuade player to sign from another team to yours & vice versa.Maybe just once in a while, A player ask to be traded if he's like a 95 overall running back and only getting 8 touches a game. ***might be memory hog***

Being able to change a players positions. Or just give them multiple positions (number dependant) ***might be memory hog***

Injured Reserve act like actually injured reserve (free up roster spot to sign replacement) ***might be memory hog***

Retired number ability and change number ability ***might be memory hog***

Person leave of absense in franchise mode (real life stuff happens like court cases, family deaths, etc.) ***might be memory hog***

[DickDalewood]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Lol some of you HAVE to be joking that a game should take two hours put of the box. If you want a two hour game, then fine, that's what options are for. But do you realize how SMALL of a minority you are?? 2K football, 2K basketball, MVP baseball... All game considered to be some of the best of their genre and NONE come even CLOSE to being two hours out of the box. Now you can accomplish that with sliders and options, and that's exactly how it should be.

Two hours out of the box... Lol, some of you frequent message boards WAY too much. I agree you deserve the option, but you are the minority, that will not and should not ever be the standard.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

Lol some of you HAVE to be joking that a game should take two hours put of the box. If you want a two hour game, then fine, that's what options are for. But do you realize how SMALL of a minority you are?? 2K football, 2K basketball, MVP baseball... All game considered to be some of the best of their genre and NONE come even CLOSE to being two hours out of the box. Now you can accomplish that with sliders and options, and that's exactly how it should be.

Two hours out of the box... Lol, some of you frequent message boards WAY too much. I agree you deserve the option, but you are the minority, that will not and should not ever be the standard.

Thank you, someone that agrees with me.

[Palo20]

Lol some of you HAVE to be joking that a game should take two hours put of the box. If you want a two hour game, then fine, that's what options are for. But do you realize how SMALL of a minority you are?? 2K football, 2K basketball, MVP baseball... All game considered to be some of the best of their genre and NONE come even CLOSE to being two hours out of the box. Now you can accomplish that with sliders and options, and that's exactly how it should be.

Two hours out of the box... Lol, some of you frequent message boards WAY too much. I agree you deserve the option, but you are the minority, that will not and should not ever be the standard.

I don't think too many people want 2 hours out of the box and this discussion started with regards to penalties. Asking for a few more realistic penalties (illegal contact, more defensive PI, etc), is not the same as asking for a 2 hour game.

[Sausage]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #2

What I hope the developers keep in mind one day is this. The football game should be developed around 15 minute quarters to get realistic stats, penaties, yards, etc.

With that players will get correct averages for games played on lesser minutes. For example lets say the average yards per game for an NFL team is 450 yards. So if you play your games on 7 to 8 minute quarters so your average over a season would be 225 yards which would actually be the sim we are looking for.

I just don't understand folks that want sim, but they wan't it all playing at lower minutes.

Now, in-game saves would get the comeback player of the year if the game is tuned with realistic quarter time in mind.