Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

[Ciws1]

I recently got to play the latest Madden game that a friend of mine has. He couldn't stop raving about it so i gave it a shot. To be honest i couldn't support his enthusiasm. Sorry but i went back to 2K5. Now I'm not a 2K fanboy but I have to say there was a reason why the games back then in 04, 05 were better on both sides of the line. Competition.

EA figured if it got exclusive license then it would gain more of the market. The problem is this wiped out the competition, and by that i don't mean in a Sporting way.

I remember back when there were many different companies were making NFL, MLB, and NBA titles. You got different approaches to each and different innovations in each. High School economics even tells us that when a business is forced to compete for the market, then the product either improves or dies. EA Bought the exclusive rights and since then as they have no competition their product has become stale. The same has happened in their NASCAR line up as well.

EA Shot themselves in the foot unfortunately and now they are losing 20% of their sales because of it. No matter what company you root for be it EA, 2K, Sega, or Acclaim or any of the dozens of others you have to see that with out each other their products just wouldn't have become what they did. The Variety is gone, the innovation and willingness to try something new and unexplored is gone.

In the end what i saying is that the thing that EA needs is an opponent. Without someone to wage war with (in a game development sense) they just can't make a better product that will satisfy anyone. Odd concept but competition for the sale would improve their own sales and their product quality. imo

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

Ok, I think this whole "Madden needs competition for improvement" logic, is being overstated. Competition brings out the BEST but doesn't create something that's not already there. M. Jordan was a good and talented player already but strong competition from other great players brought out the BEST in him. Likewise with other good and talented people in the history of the world, with their rivals pushing them on to be their BEST.

The lack of competition is no excuse for Madden not being the type of NFL football game we should have by now, in 2010. Im not saying Madden 11 is a terrible game but it's by no means a standard for a NFL game created in 2010.

Madden 11 can't even COMPETE with Madden 2005 and NFL 2k5 in certain areas, so competition from a NFL game in 2010 would have little impact in the quality of Madden, IMO.

I am all for competition but I dont believe it would make Madden any better at it's core. I preferred 2k's NFL football games but if Madden 11 was a 2010 quality game, I wouldn't care about 2k making another NFL game. If EA was committed to trying to address Madden's legacy issues (like unrealistic QB dropbacks), simulatimg actual NFL football, real network broadcasting, player personalities and team franchise management, it would have a solid, better selling game.

NBA Live had competition for a LONG time, the core of that game didnt get solid until NBA Live 10. Then, EA abandoned the improvements and went with a whole new game that got cancelled for this year.

To those people that believe having competition will make Madden better, not necessarily. Remeber, EA didnt buy the exclusive license because of fear of the competition, the NFL finally sold it because of NFL 2k5's price drop. I honestly think EA could careless what other games or companies do, they think they know what's best, IMO.

NFL game competition would cause a huge decrease in Madden complaints because gamers would have choices, not because Madden became so much better.

[aTTckr]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

Ok, I think this whole "Madden needs competition for improvement" logic, is being overstated. Competition brings out the BEST but doesn't create something that's not already there. M. Jordan was a good and talented player already but strong competition from other great players brought out the BEST in him. Likewise with other good and talented people in the history of the world, with their rivals pushing them on to be their BEST.

The lack of competition is no excuse for Madden not being the type of NFL football game we should have by now, in 2010. Im not saying Madden 11 is a terrible game but it's by no means a standard for a NFL game created in 2010.

Madden 11 can't even COMPETE with Madden 2005 and NFL 2k5 in certain areas, so competition from a NFL game in 2010 would have little impact in the quality of Madden, IMO.

I am all for competition but I dont believe it would make Madden any better at it's core. I preferred 2k's NFL football games but if Madden 11 was a 2010 quality game, I wouldn't care about 2k making another NFL game. If EA was committed to trying to address Madden's legacy issues (like unrealistic QB dropbacks), simulatimg actual NFL football, real network broadcasting, player personalities and team franchise management, it would have a solid, better selling game.

NBA Live had competition for a LONG time, the core of that game didnt get solid until NBA Live 10. Then, EA abandoned the improvements and went with a whole new game that got cancelled for this year.

To those people that believe having competition will make Madden better, not necessarily. Remeber, EA didnt buy the exclusive license because of fear of the competition, the NFL finally sold it because of NFL 2k5's price drop. I honestly think EA could careless what other games or companies do, they think they know what's best, IMO.

NFL game competition would cause a huge decrease in Madden complaints because gamers would have choices, not because Madden became so much better.

Sorry but that is not true. If the competitor delivers a much better game, Madden won't sell as many units as it does today. If this goes on for 1 or 2 years, the bosses at EA would want radical changes.

But without a competitor why would they want to change their cashcow? From a business standpoint that would be a dumb idea. Because change always means danger. And to be honest EA doesn't care about the quality of the game, they care about the the money the get. And since they are a publicly traded company you can't really fault them for that.

Just for example: Do you really think that Elite would have been cancelled if they had the exclusive license and there were no 2k11? Of course they would have released it, because NBA fans just like us NFL fans have to buy their updated annual game.

[PhillyJim76]

What he said. If EA held an exclusive license for hoops, we'd be stuck with NBA Elite.

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

What he said. If EA held an exclusive license for hoops, we'd be stuck with NBA Elite.

You are both missing my point, I think. NBA Live was an inferior game to the competition, IMO, for a LONG time. EA just changed that game up in 2009 for only one year, just to abandon that direction in favor of NBA Elite. If those decisions are any indication of what EA would do with NFL competition, that does NOT mean competition would improve Madden.

If you notice EA's track record, they dont try to improve on past success and do what works, better. Instead, they try to "innovate" and blaze their own trail, to their detriment, IMO. NBA Live 10 was on solid ground to begin to compete with NBA 2k but instead of building on that, they tried to "innovate" and made unreleased NBA Elite. Lots of sports games have had success using tv style network broadcast presentation but EA decided to "innovate" with Beyond Broadcast. When faced with competition EA seems to try "innovation" and that hasn't done much to improve next-gen Madden thus far.

Like I said before, I want NFL competition in video games but that's so I can have a different game to play. This talk of competition improving Madden sounds good but has little actual merit based on EA's track record. NFL video game competition would result in more EA "innovation" for Madden and I think that's the main problem with the game now. For Madden to be a better NFL simulation game, it needs less EA "innovation" and more NFL orthodoxy.

[roadman]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

You are both missing my point, I think. NBA Live was an inferior game to the competition, IMO, for a LONG time. EA just changed that game up in 2009 for only one year, just to abandon that direction in favor of NBA Elite. If those decisions are any indication of what EA would do with NFL competition, that does NOT mean competition would improve Madden.

If you notice EA's track record, they dont try to improve on past success and do what works, better. Instead, they try to "innovate" and blaze their own trail, to their detriment, IMO. NBA Live 10 was on solid ground to begin to compete with NBA 2k but instead of building on that, they tried to "innovate" and made unreleased NBA Elite. Lots of sports games have had success using tv style network broadcast presentation but EA decided to "innovate" with Beyond Broadcast. When faced with competition EA seems to try "innovation" and that hasn't done much to improve next-gen Madden thus far.

Like I said before, I want NFL competition in video games but that's so I can have a different game to play. This talk of competition improving Madden sounds good but has little actual merit based on EA's track record. NFL video game competition would result in more EA "innovation" for Madden and I think that's the main problem with the game now. For Madden to be a better NFL simulation game, it needs less EA "innovation" and more NFL orthodoxy.

How soon everyone forgets MVP Baseball, FIFA Soccer and NHL Hockey. EA abandoned Triple Play Baseball and didn't produce a baseball game for 1.5 yrs. All of a sudden, out came MVP Baseball came out and it was a pretty authentic game of baseball vs Triple Play's arcade style. They were going up against HH Baseball, MLB Baseball, All Star Baseball . FIFA Soccer and NHL Hockey(from what I read) is constantly improving because they have competition.

So, EA can turn out good to great games based on competition based off their past track record.

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

How soon everyone forgets MVP Baseball, FIFA Soccer and NHL Hockey. EA abandoned Triple Play Baseball and didn't produce a baseball game for 1.5 yrs. All of a sudden, out came MVP Baseball came out and it was a pretty authentic game of baseball vs Triple Play's arcade style. They were going up against HH Baseball, MLB Baseball, All Star Baseball . FIFA Soccer and NHL Hockey(from what I read) is constantly improving because they have competition.

So, EA can turn out good to great games based on competition based off their past track record.

All that maybe true Roadman but I was speaking more about next-gen sports titles. EA's idea of "innovation" now seems to be creative ways to get more money from the consumer year round andcasual gamer gimmicks, not improving the core game.

I mainly saying that just because Madden somehow has competition again doesn't automatically equate to a better Madden. It seems to me that quite a few posters think that's the case but EA's next-gen track record shows this is not a given.

[roadman]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

All that maybe true Roadman but I was speaking more about next-gen sports titles. EA's idea of "innovation" now seems to be creative ways to get more money from the consumer year round andcasual gamer gimmicks, not improving the core game.

I mainly saying that just because Madden somehow has competition again doesn't automatically equate to a better Madden. It seems to me that quite a few posters think that's the case but EA's next-gen track record shows this is not a given.

Forget about MVP, then.

So, isn't FIFA and NHL on "next gen?" Those 2 games have innovated with competition on next gen.

Check out the forums on these games if you are not familiar with them. Over the last few years, they've made major improvements with competition.

That's the track record I'm going by. I think you are focusing too much on the basketball track record.

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

Forget about MVP, then.

So, isn't FIFA and NHL on "next gen?" Those 2 games have innovated with competition on next gen.

Check out the forums on these games if you are not familiar with them. Over the last few years, they've made major improvements with competition.

That's the track record I'm going by. I think you are focusing too much on the basketball track record.

I personally don't believe the competition has any bearing on what EA does with its' games. Granted, I haven't played their NHL or FIFA games but I don't see how competition can be credited with pushing EA to make these games better. It seems to me that EA just does what they want with their sports titles and sometimes that works and other times it doesn't. All that is just my opinion though.

Now for the facts. You can't cherry pick a track record just for the good or bad alone, you have to look at the whole record. With some sports games that EA has had competition in, EA has produced some good games while some others have not been that good. That's a fact, so competition for Madden does not mean the game will improve, it MIGHT or it MIGHT NOT. If you noticed my first post about this I said "not necessarily". Once again, Im not saying it can't happen but based on EA's track record with competition, it is not a given like I think some are suggesting/thinking.

[roadman]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

I personally don't believe the competition has any bearing on what EA does with its' games. Granted, I haven't played their NHL or FIFA games but I don't see how competition can be credited with pushing EA to make these games better. It seems to me that EA just does what they want with their sports titles and sometimes that works and other times it doesn't. All that is just my opinion though.

Now for the facts. You can't cherry pick a track record just for the good or bad alone, you have to look at the whole record. With some sports games that EA has had competition in, EA has produced some good games while some others have not been that good. That's a fact, so competition for Madden does not mean the game will improve, it MIGHT or it MIGHT NOT. If you noticed my first post about this I said "not necessarily". Once again, Im not saying it can't happen but based on EA's track record with competition, it is not a given like I think some are suggesting/thinking.

And I was acknowledging that EA does innovate in other sports games with competition. I think in the last paragraph you agreed with that.(didn't see that in other posts because of your exp. w/NBA Live)

As far as your last sentence, of course, that is a wait and see situation. Time will tell.

I feel the overall feeling is that competition breeds better yearly sports games. It might not be true for NBA Live, but it was true when Madden and other football games were competing, plus with FIFA and NHL thrown in, there is a reason for optimism in this area.

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

And I was acknowledging that EA does innovate in other sports games with competition. I think in the last paragraph you agreed with that.(didn't see that in other posts because of your exp. w/NBA Live)

As far as your last sentence, of course, that is a wait and see situation. Time will tell.

I feel the overall feeling is that competition breeds better yearly sports games. It might not be true for NBA Live, but it was true when Madden and other football games were competing, plus with FIFA and NHL thrown in, there is a reason for optimism in this area.

Yeah they have innovated with competition but I don't think it is BECAUSE of competition. EA has "innovated" next-gen Madden without competition but that hasnt translated all that well into making it a better game, IMO. When I think of competition making something better, I think of one game doing something better one year and then the other game trying to outdo them in that area next year. Like if Game A had a better presentation than Game B, the next year Game B works hard to make their presentation better than Game A. However, that's not what EA does with its' sport titles. If a competitors game does something better, EA just tries to add something totally different to their game. That doesn't make much sense to me when we are talking about sports titles, both games are supposed to be "simulating" the actual sport. If Game A has a good tackling animations, Game B should strive for a better tackling animations, not "innovate" a new tackling system that's incomplete and looks WORSE.

EA "innovates" Madden and NHL without competition, when faced with competition, EA might just innovate more but that doesn't mean Madden will be better. We are both seeing the same things but have vastly different interpretations of what's happening and that's cool.

[roadman]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

Yeah they have innovated with competition but I don't think it is BECAUSE of competition. EA has "innovated" next-gen Madden without competition but that hasnt translated all that well into making it a better game, IMO. When I think of competition making something better, I think of one game doing something better one year and then the other game trying to outdo them in that area next year. Like if Game A had a better presentation than Game B, the next year Game B works hard to make their presentation better than Game A. However, that's not what EA does with its' sport titles. If a competitors game does something better, EA just tries to add something totally different to their game. That doesn't make much sense to me when we are talking about sports titles, both games are supposed to be "simulating" the actual sport. If Game A has a good tackling animations, Game B should strive for a better tackling animations, not "innovate" a new tackling system that's incomplete and looks WORSE.

EA "innovates" Madden and NHL without competition, when faced with competition, EA might just innovate more but that doesn't mean Madden will be better. We are both seeing the same things but have vastly different interpretations of what's happening and that's cool.

Yeah, your right, it's cool that we have different interpretations.

You are looking at Madden and Live, I'm trying to bring NHL and FIFA into the picture. It's been very competitive with the NHL series and FIFA over the past 5 years on the consoles. In fact, FIFA's competitor, PES's Director said PES has to turn up the heat to become more competitive because FIFA has done that very thing.

We are both right, just coming at different directions.

I can't dismiss what Madden and Live have produced , just like you can't dismiss what NHL and FIFA have accomplished.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

I see what TLC is saying, and I agree. There ARE people on here that think that if Madden had comp, that it would magically be better, by, I don't know... osmosis or something.

Whether you believe that EA/Tiburon sits on their laurels or not, when there is no comp, the fact remains, that regardless of whether there is comp or not, Madden does NOT HAVE to improve. Even if you believe that competition will "force" Madden to put more effort into their game, that means nothing. So what if they do put more effort into the game? Who is to say that that "effort" will yield anything remotely better? You might give them an 'E' for effort, but they could still make an 'F' of a game.

If you can't make a good game, you can't make a good game. I could play pick up games with Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Wade, Melo, and any other star you want to name. Doesn't mean I'll ever be on their level (except in my mind lol).

Now before a mod comes to say stop bashing the devs, I'm not. I'm speaking hypothetically. And hypothetically speaking, if you are incapable of making a good game, no amount of comp (unless you steal their work or something lol) will change that.

That's all TLC is saying, and he is absolutely right. Theoretically speaking that is lol.

So all those that think that comp HAS to make Madden better, that is just pie in the sky capitalism talking, but it isn't based on anything other than that.

[roadman]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

I see what TLC is saying, and I agree. There ARE people on here that think that if Madden had comp, that it would magically be better, by, I don't know... osmosis or something.

Whether you believe that EA/Tiburon sits on their laurels or not, when there is no comp, the fact remains, that regardless of whether there is comp or not, Madden does NOT HAVE to improve. Even if you believe that competition will "force" Madden to put more effort into their game, that means nothing. So what if they do put more effort into the game? Who is to say that that "effort" will yield anything remotely better? You might give them an 'E' for effort, but they could still make an 'F' of a game.

If you can't make a good game, you can't make a good game. I could play pick up games with Kobe, Durant, Lebron, Wade, Melo, and any other star you want to name. Doesn't mean I'll ever be on their level (except in my mind lol).

Now before a mod comes to say stop bashing the devs, I'm not. I'm speaking hypothetically. And hypothetically speaking, if you are incapable of making a good game, no amount of comp (unless you steal their work or something lol) will change that.

That's all TLC is saying, and he is absolutely right. Theoretically speaking that is lol.

So all those that think that comp HAS to make Madden better, that is just pie in the sky capitalism talking, but it isn't based on anything other than that.

Wow, osmosis or were you joking?

I don't agree with your making a bad game they will continue to make a bad game analogy, either. Off the bat, I don't know if Madden will improve (that's subjective to everyone) with competition or not.

However, you can't dismiss it based on past history of some EA sports games.(not all obviously)

I don't care if Triple Play was on LG or LLG, they still took that arcade game and turned into a very competitive MVP game. FIFA and NHL have improved dramatically with competition.

I'm not in the camp that feels EA will put more effort into making a better game, either, but I'm not dismissing any or all possibilities.

I'm a person that goes by track history, good and bad. In this case, it's possible both ways.

That's all that Roadman is saying, theoretically speaking.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

Wow, osmosis or were you joking?

I don't agree with your making a bad game they will continue to make a bad game analogy, either. Off the bat, I don't know if Madden will improve (that's subjective to everyone) with competition or not.

However, you can't dismiss it based on past history of some EA sports games.(not all obviously)

I don't care if Triple Play was on LG or LLG, they still took that arcade game and turned into a very competitive MVP game. FIFA and NHL have improved dramatically with competition.

I'm not in the camp that feels EA will put more effort into making a better game, either, but I'm not dismissing any or all possibilities.

I'm a person that goes by track history, good and bad. In this case, it's possible both ways.

That's all that Roadman is saying, theoretically speaking.

Yes osmosis was a joke. Sarcasm would be a more apt description though lol.

You are missing the point. All TLC, and I are saying, is that competition DOES NOT GUARANTEE a better Madden. That's it. And there are people who post on here who think that if they had comp that Madden would be better GUARANTEED. That is just wrong.

You can bring up track record, or the past all you want, that proves nothing. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

I don't want to argue, because there is no reason to. This should be obvious. Competition does not guarantee a better game. Period. The people who think it does are wrong. If you aren't one of those people, then you are ahead of the curve. If you are one of those people... stop thinking that way lol.

That's all.