Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

You're missing my point. Tiburon doesn't have to change a thing. It doesn't matter how capable they are. If someone else makes an NFL game, either it's better than madden or it isn't. If it isn't, Madden is suddenly looks a lot more appealing than it has been to its customers because they see what the competition offers. Madden just got better without changing a thing, simply because customers see even worse alternatives.

Without competition, consumers will never be satisfied with what Madden offers because they will always believe the game could be better than what they are getting. Whether or not that really is the case.

You are assuming that people are not happy with Madden because we dont have a current NFL game to compare it to. So, you think, if we did get one and it was inferior, Madden would be a better game by comparision. I guess you are trying to make a philosophical point but I disagree with this.

Madden is allegedly a NFL football simulation game, that should be compared with NFL football. I didn't prefer NFL 2k5 because it was better than Madden, I liked how it simulated NFL football. When I say that NFL 2k5 was a better game IMO, Im saying better at simulating NFL football. Even more to the point, being better than Madden, NFL 2k5 or any other game at NFL football simulation is not the benchmark. Coming as close to simulating the real NFL as possible in a video game is. The accolades for any NFL video game come from the areas where the game best simulates the real NFL.

Having another NFL video game inferior to Madden does NOT make Madden a better game. It just makes Madden better than that game and who gives a f**k about that? LOL

[KensaiKatai]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

Bottom line is, if what happened to Elite was largely in part due to what NBA2k11 brought to the table..it's only a given what would happen if Madden was faced with the same predicament in having stiffer competition nicking at it's heels. They would be forced to go back to the drawing board. This isn't the case right now and it won't be as long as there is an exclusive license. What is going on with 2k and it's baseball franchise is also indicative of this and that is because of what the Show brings to the table. You give the consumer choices...well, competition breeds excellence.

The disparity and what we expect as consumers right now has very little bearing because there is all types of wiggle room for Madden as long as there is no competition. I enjoy this years product but in many ways it feels broad and manipulative in it's approach. There as a lot of fundamental weaknesses in basic presentation aspects as well as sim offerings that we've come to expect from other titles such as the show and 2k. In some regards, I don't think it's arrogance as much as ignorance as far as programming, maybe a little bit of both. If this continues to be the case then sales will continue to suffer and it won't bode well for us that are trying to maintain an objective approach as to what we expect in a football video game.

[roadman]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

I'm sticking with the way I felt for most of my life. I'm also basing this on personal and business experiences.

I still feel, generally speaking, that competition is a good thing to make a product better. I'm not saying it's a guarantee or a given, but overall, competition, in most cases, can't hurt.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

I'm sticking with the way I felt for most of my life. I'm also basing this on personal and business experiences.

I still feel, generally speaking, that competition is a good thing to make a product better. I'm not saying it's a guarantee or a given, but overall, competition, in most cases, can't hurt.

This is how I see it as well. Basically one of the companies usually steps it up and provides a better service/product. In the rare cases that doesn't happen, consumers lower their standards a bit and find what they get more enjoyable simply because they still can choose the product that is closest to what they are looking to buy.

[Blue Line]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

I'm sticking with the way I felt for most of my life. I'm also basing this on personal and business experiences.

I still feel, generally speaking, that competition is a good thing to make a product better. I'm not saying it's a guarantee or a given, but overall, competition, in most cases, can't hurt.

not only can't competition hurt, its necessary for a continuance of improvement in a series. without competition there is no challenge for the devs to deliver a product that everyone is asking for. anyone who thinks that the lack of competition isn't a major part of the problem is simply wrong.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

I'm sticking with the way I felt for most of my life. I'm also basing this on personal and business experiences.

I still feel, generally speaking, that competition is a good thing to make a product better. I'm not saying it's a guarantee or a given, but overall, competition, in most cases, can't hurt.

This is how I see it as well. Basically one of the companies usually steps it up and provides a better service/product. In the rare cases that doesn't happen, consumers lower their standards a bit and find what they get more enjoyable simply because they still can choose the product that is closest to what they are looking to buy.

not only can't competition hurt, its necessary for a continuance of improvement in a series. without competition there is no challenge for the devs to deliver a product that everyone is asking for. anyone who thinks that the lack of competition isn't a major part of the problem is simply wrong.

Who ever said that competition can hurt? I'm pretty sure no one.

All that has been said is that it doesn't guarantee that the game will be better, and it's taken, I don't know how many pages, for some to finally acknowledge this fact.

I'm need a drink lol.

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

Who ever said that competition can hurt? I'm pretty sure no one.

All that has been said is that it doesn't guarantee that the game will be better, and it's taken, I don't know how many pages, for some to finally acknowledge this fact.

I'm need a drink lol.

On this point LT, Im saying it. LOL

It can't hurt the consumer or the NFL video game market but it can hurt the actual game of Madden, ala NBA Live. Competition ended that game and probably had alot to do with NBA Elite being unreleased this year. In the long run this MIGHT all make NBA Elite a better game but right now, competition HURT EA's NBA series.

I am surprised so many people believe competition makes Madden improvement a given. I wonder how many people believe in spontaneous generation around here too. LOL ( Just because maggots appear on rotten meat doesn't mean rotten meat produces maggots. Likewise, just because EA has improved games with competition doesn't mean competition produces improved EA games)

Once again, I LONG FOR THE DAY that competition returns to NFL video games so I can have choice again. That said, competition DOES NOT mean EA will produce a better NFL video game, anything can happen.

[bearschicago]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

Absolutely, 100% true, but you are attempting to create an argument or discussion, where there really is none, which is what I have been trying to convey.

Comp does not guarantee a better game. You agree with that. There are those that don't. And it is to those that tlc's and my post were aimed at. If you don't fall in that category, then it should really be end of discussion.

There are obviously other benefits of comp, like having choice, and I was never, and would never, dispute that.

Say EA also had the NBA exclusive license (I believe EA actually approached NBA in 05 and NBA said no because they wanted competition).

If there was no other choice, the game that was cancelled in Elite 11 would not have been cancelled. Why? Because there is no other NBA game for consumers to compare it to.

So you either buy Elite 11 or not. Thankfully with competition customers have choices which makes all of us happy.

[roadman]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

On this point LT, Im saying it. LOL

It can't hurt the consumer or the NFL video game market but it can hurt the actual game of Madden, ala NBA Live. Competition ended that game and probably had alot to do with NBA Elite being unreleased this year. In the long run this MIGHT all make NBA Elite a better game but right now, competition HURT EA's NBA series.

I am surprised so many people believe competition makes Madden improvement a given. I wonder how many people believe in spontaneous generation around here too. LOL ( Just because maggots appear on rotten meat doesn't mean rotten meat produces maggots. Likewise, just because EA has improved games with competition doesn't mean competition produces improved EA games)

Once again, I LONG FOR THE DAY that competition returns to NFL video games so I can have choice again. That said, competition DOES NOT mean EA will produce a better NFL video game, anything can happen.

How do we know competition ended NBA Elite? Just like we don't know if competition has an influence on making products better, how do we know it was competition that led them to close shop and retool? We can speculate that was part of the issue, but it's not a given or guarantee. It could be because they listened their core audience and to the premature meta critic scores as well.

I'm sure they are hoping for a short term pain for a long term gain.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

It can't hurt the consumer or the NFL video game market but it can hurt the actual game of Madden, ala NBA Live. Competition ended that game and probably had alot to do with NBA Elite being unreleased this year. In the long run this MIGHT all make NBA Elite a better game but right now, competition HURT EA's NBA series.

I'd say the quality of the product killed NBA Elite. If EA had NBA exclusivity, do you believe EA still would've chosen not to release Elite? Now translate that to EA/Tiburon and Madden.

[roadman]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

I'd say the quality of the product killed NBA Elite. If EA had NBA exclusivity, do you believe EA still would've chosen not to release Elite? Now translate that to EA/Tiburon and Madden.

This is my belief as well.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

On this point LT, Im saying it. LOL

It can't hurt the consumer or the NFL video game market but it can hurt the actual game of Madden, ala NBA Live. Competition ended that game and probably had alot to do with NBA Elite being unreleased this year. In the long run this MIGHT all make NBA Elite a better game but right now, competition HURT EA's NBA series.

I am surprised so many people believe competition makes Madden improvement a given. I wonder how many people believe in spontaneous generation around here too. LOL ( Just because maggots appear on rotten meat doesn't mean rotten meat produces maggots. Likewise, just because EA has improved games with competition doesn't mean competition produces improved EA games)

Once again, I LONG FOR THE DAY that competition returns to NFL video games so I can have choice again. That said, competition DOES NOT mean EA will produce a better NFL video game, anything can happen.

I for one, do not want competition to make Madden a better game. I want competition because I want an alternative. I'm endlessly tired of Madden. No matter what little tweaks they do to it, it's the same game every year. It's been one repetitious experiment after another for over 5 years now. And I'm forced to play that or nothing.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

How do we know competition ended NBA Elite? Just like we don't know if competition has an influence on making products better, how do we know it was competition that led them to close shop and retool? We can speculate that was part of the issue, but it's not a given or guarantee. It could be because they listened their core audience and to the premature meta critic scores as well.

I'm sure they are hoping for a short term pain for a long term gain.

I'd say the quality of the product killed NBA Elite. If EA had NBA exclusivity, do you believe EA still would've chosen not to release Elite? Now translate that to EA/Tiburon and Madden.

In this particular instance, it's just a guess. EA may have delayed/ cancelled NBA Elite anyway, even if there was no comp. Now if they had the exclusive license, then they would probably be obligated to deliver a title, as per the terms of the license, but that's too much to go into, about a hypothetical situation.

tlc is just guessing that competition made EA cancel Elite, but he is right in that competition can potentially hurt a business. After all, if your comp does something better than you and steals your business, than I think that would qualify as hurting.

We just don't have concrete evidence, that EA cancelled Elite because of 2K 11, or if they wouldn't have done it anyway, had 2K11 skipped this year as well. Or if EA had had an exclusive, that they would have even taken the chance to reinvent Live into Elite at all.

We'll never know.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

I for one, do not want competition to make Madden a better game. I want competition because I want an alternative. I'm endlessly tired of Madden. No matter what little tweaks they do to it, it's the same game every year. It's been one repetitious experiment after another for over 5 years now. And I'm forced to play that or nothing.

I'd argue that it has been even longer than that, but I'll stop that thought now before this discussion takes a turn for the worse.

[roadman]

Re: Madden Sales Down 18% Y-o-Y in October

I'd argue that it has been even longer than that, but I'll stop that thought now before this discussion takes a turn for the worse.

Can it get any worse?

We've had deju vu's, people holding a gun to a person's head reciting the Gettysburg Address, Hawaii vacation contest, etc....

Sorry, just an injection of a little humor in here.

That is all.