Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

Try not to be so offended about an opinion shared by many. You don't like that someone else doesn't like MUT?

Doesn't matter if it's a majority or minority opinion, if it's a money maker, it isn't going away.

Similar to telling your boss that even though it's a money maker for your company, it's time to abandon it because some people on a message board thinks it's a bad idea to spend time on it.

Job or no job?

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

Wow... selfish.

You aren't into MUT. Fine. Neither am I, for the most part. That doesn't make it a waste. It's successful... extremely successful. You don't like it and think it's a waste. Grow up.

MUT isn't a waste to the company, but it's a big reason franchise is in the state it's in and sort of a slap in the face to long time fans. It's wrong of EA to put their franchise guy in charge of a niche mode designed to nickel and dime kids.

When every core mode of any sports game is as barebones as Madden's are and they are putting their best soldiers in charge of MUT and Facebook apps, it just reeks of greed proctected by exclusivity and fans have a right to be angry about it.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

MUT isn't a waste to the company, but it's a big reason franchise is in the state it's in and sort of a slap in the face to long time fans. It's wrong of EA to put their franchise guy in charge of a niche mode designed to nickel and dime kids.

When every core mode of any sports game is as barebones as Madden's are and they are putting their best soldiers in charge of MUT and Facebook apps, it just reeks of greed proctected by exclusivity and fans have a right to be angry about it.

What's there to be angry at, though? We aren't privy to how much Josh works on MUT, are we? The foundation for MUT is probably already laid down, don't you agree? So, what if it was 20% MUT, 80% FM?

From a business standpoint, if I'm a manager or owner, I'm not going to pull my best soldier off a great seller and put that soldier on a different project until it's well established and doesn't need that soldier anymore.

Anyone who thought all the code from HC could be ported over to Madden in one big swoop or business cycle was dreaming. It took three years to make HC alone.

[marshallfever]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

Humm...i didn't listen to the podcast yet, but there are a lot of sad comments coming in this thread. I understand it takes "TIME" to implement modes into an already existent game....but when is enough enough. This is going to be the 7th Madden game on this generation of consoles. Why didn't this thinking happen several years ago?

I didn't buy Madden this year because i didn't see a big enough change from 10, i owned 06, 07,09 and 10. I thought skipping this year would guarantee me an awesome Madden 12.....but could i be wrong? Only "TIME" can tell right guys.

But for right now i'm going to give EA the benefit of the doubt. Step one in providing a good game experience is admitting where your downfalls are. For them speak freely about the lackluster franchise mode they've had for the last 6 years is a good start. It means they recognize the problem, now lets hope it doesn't take them 6 more years to give us a good franchise.

I didn't play Head Coach and still don't care for it. If they know they can't streamline the information from Head Coach then they should just move on and try to do this a different way. It's not like we're asking for the world here, just some attention to a franchise mode. The last two years, they didn't touch Super Star mode or Franchise. They tweaked some game-play features which is a good thing but its about time they looked at some of the game modes.

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

Agree 100%. Josh Looman is the franchise guy and has been there two years yet nothing really has been done. Talent isn't the problem, manpower and budget is.

Talent, manpower or the budget is not the problem I have, with the next-gen Madden we get every year, vision is. We have heard repeatedly that next-gen Madden has coding, resource and developer decision making limitations and I accept that. That said, the devs do have some decision making in the yearly development cycle by their own admission. (For example, they say the were able to add new run blocking AI despite marketing's apprehension.)

So, EA gives the Madden developers "lemons" every year, regardless of the "drink" devs and fans would prefer, they should be making "lemonade". The devs should be using what little input they have, to add as much "sweetner" as they can because they will be held responsible for how this "drink" tastes EVERY year.

However, in Madden 10, the devs added other ingredients like more "beyond broadcast" elements, incomplete pro-tak and incomplete online franchise, instead of sweetners like network broadcast-style elements, adding/improving existing tackle animations and focusing on oflline franchise.

Im Madden 11, they did add sweetners like gameplanning and run blocking, kudos there. That said, they added other "ingredients" too like a new pre-snap interface, broken player intro storylines, new lighting system and trademark stadium audio, instead of sweetners like more defensive pre-snap options for balance, upgrading the Extra Point/Halftime Show, progressive lighting and user customizable audio.

I think the Madden devs are talented and have a vision of creating a "drink" we can all enjoy, SOMEDAY. But, after 6 years of waiting for this universal "drink" I am very "thirsty" and would settle for some sweet "lemonade", this year. LOL

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

What's there to be angry at, though? We aren't privy to how much Josh works on MUT, are we? The foundation for MUT is probably already laid down, don't you agree? So, what if it was 20% MUT, 80% FM?

From a business standpoint, if I'm a manager or owner, I'm not going to pull my best soldier off a great seller and put that soldier on a different project until it's well established and doesn't need that soldier anymore.

Anyone who thought all the code from HC could be ported over to Madden in one big swoop or business cycle was dreaming. It took three years to make HC alone.

First bold part: He's the franchise guy, but basically nothing has changed in franchise mode since he came over from the ps2 team. I have to assume from the product I've played that it's 98% MUT and 2% Franchise.

From a business standpoint concentrating all your efforts on MUT, Facebook apps and getting people to pay for Madden Moments makes sense. From a fan standpoint, watching those modes get 98% of the attention and being asking to fork over more cash while franchise, superstar and the other core modes go untouched is unacceptable.

Second bold point: What they've done is pour all their efforts into making this game a golden goose and forgot that people want to play the game. It's gonna take 3-4 years from this point to fix franchise because they did nothing to the core modes from madden 06-11. Every longtime madden fan should be angry about that. Hell, I'm pissed about it.

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

man im just clueless after listening to this guys, i mean this game is named after John Madden, this man IS football, im pretty sure that he dosent want a watered down product with his name on it on the shelves, im just lost right now.

I really don't understand what you are talking about here...can you provide some more info?

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

Some responses / questions...

- WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC FEATURES FOR MADDEN 12. You hopefully know that by now. Quotes like "Taken together, however, I see them very carefully attempting to set expectations." are just wrong. IT IS DECEMBER, WE HAVE TO BE CRYPTIC. If you are the type of guy that is going to get fired up about not enough talk about specific improvements, then I suggest you don't listen to the podcast.

- Nowhere in the podcast are we saying it's going to take multiple years for you to see any improvements, or that 12 won't have any. See point above, and I can say we have been working on Franchise improvements for some time now.

- "And as far as that "cant make drastic improvements in one cycle" BS....". Where did we ever say that? I 100% believe that drastic improvements can be made in one cycle.

- "I guess after these podcasts, it just looks to me like Madden isn't gonna be a game I'm gonna ever like on these consoles." Does that statement seem a little ridiculous to anyone else? After a podcast that discusses ZERO REAL FEATURE ADDITIONS you aren't going to like Madden, EVER? I always hoped that this forum would eventually be a great place for feedback and ways to improve the game, not the sensationalist extremism that it can quickly descends into.

- There is nothing more frustrating to me than people not actually listening to the podcast but jumping on the opinion bandwagon of another. Please guys, we are spending the time planning and recording these SPECIFICALLY for the Madden community...you could at least give us the respect of listening to it and forming an opinion of your own.

Maybe we should just stop doing these for a while if too many people aren't able to cope with the lack of real information and turn that into a negative thing. That's not what we want out of these at all...we just want to give people a behind the scenes look at the development process and decision making. Thoughts?

[BlueNGold]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

Some responses / questions...

- WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC FEATURES FOR MADDEN 12. You hopefully know that by now. Quotes like "Taken together, however, I see them very carefully attempting to set expectations." are just wrong. IT IS DECEMBER, WE HAVE TO BE CRYPTIC. If you are the type of guy that is going to get fired up about not enough talk about specific improvements, then I suggest you don't listen to the podcast.

- Nowhere in the podcast are we saying it's going to take multiple years for you to see any improvements, or that 12 won't have any. See point above, and I can say we have been working on Franchise improvements for some time now.

- "And as far as that "cant make drastic improvements in one cycle" BS....". Where did we ever say that? I 100% believe that drastic improvements can be made in one cycle.

- "I guess after these podcasts, it just looks to me like Madden isn't gonna be a game I'm gonna ever like on these consoles." Does that statement seem a little ridiculous to anyone else? After a podcast that discusses ZERO REAL FEATURE ADDITIONS you aren't going to like Madden, EVER? I always hoped that this forum would eventually be a great place for feedback and ways to improve the game, not the sensationalist extremism that it can quickly descends into.

- There is nothing more frustrating to me than people not actually listening to the podcast but jumping on the opinion bandwagon of another. Please guys, we are spending the time planning and recording these SPECIFICALLY for the Madden community...you could at least give us the respect of listening to it and forming an opinion of your own.

Maybe we should just stop doing these for a while if too many people aren't able to cope with the lack of real information and turn that into a negative thing. That's not what we want out of these at all...we just want to give people a behind the scenes look at the development process and decision making. Thoughts?

You must have really been missing this place, huh?

IMO you guys should continue to do the podcast. Your intent is in the right place. Yes, there are people that can't appreciate things like these and their voices always seem to be the loudest ones, but there are still plenty of people that do appreciate stuff like this. It would be unfair to take that away from those people.

Now I'm not saying a lot of the people that post in this specific forum don't have the right intent either, because (for the most part) they do as well. They just want the best football game possible, but maybe some people don't express that in the best way.

Anyways, if I have any say at all in this, my vote is to continue doing these podcasts.

[Flamehead]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

- WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC FEATURES FOR MADDEN 12. You hopefully know that by now. Quotes like "Taken together, however, I see them very carefully attempting to set expectations." are just wrong. IT IS DECEMBER, WE HAVE TO BE CRYPTIC. If you are the type of guy that is going to get fired up about not enough talk about specific improvements, then I suggest you don't listen to the podcast.

I made that comment. With all due respect I stand by it.

We've been through enough cycles to know that you have to be cryptic in December. It's a given. I certainly wasn't expecting anything specific.

But again, taking all those comments together, I hear EA staff emphasizing time...lots of it. Conversely, I don't hear any talk of committing to much of anything. And I'm not talking about specifics like you are above, I'm talking even about generalities.

I respectfully submit you appear to want it both ways. You want the luxury of not committing to anything (even in general) because certain things may not make it in, you have to be cryptic this time of year, etc., but then you seemingly get discouraged when you see responses where people are less then enthused with all the "time" talk repeatedly thrown out there (especially in this podcast alone). This repeated use of "time" along with the history of using that time for other features nobody asked for is just wearing thin.

I for one am not "fired up"--I'm more or less somewhat tired. Again, with all due respect, this podcast had lots of talking, but not much was said. As another poster said, instead of telling us what the "challenges" are, why not tell us what you can do? But there again, you have to be cryptic, can't commit, etc. (unless it's MUT apparently).

It goes both ways. I'm sorry you're discouraged regarding some of the responses here, but in many regards, this podcast wasn't very encouraging either when looking at the sum of the statements.

I'm sure you guys mean well, but surely you can understand where some of the disappointment is coming from.

[rooney8]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

Some responses / questions...

- WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC FEATURES FOR MADDEN 12. You hopefully know that by now. Quotes like "Taken together, however, I see them very carefully attempting to set expectations." are just wrong. IT IS DECEMBER, WE HAVE TO BE CRYPTIC. If you are the type of guy that is going to get fired up about not enough talk about specific improvements, then I suggest you don't listen to the podcast.

- Nowhere in the podcast are we saying it's going to take multiple years for you to see any improvements, or that 12 won't have any. See point above, and I can say we have been working on Franchise improvements for some time now.

- "And as far as that "cant make drastic improvements in one cycle" BS....". Where did we ever say that? I 100% believe that drastic improvements can be made in one cycle.

- "I guess after these podcasts, it just looks to me like Madden isn't gonna be a game I'm gonna ever like on these consoles." Does that statement seem a little ridiculous to anyone else? After a podcast that discusses ZERO REAL FEATURE ADDITIONS you aren't going to like Madden, EVER? I always hoped that this forum would eventually be a great place for feedback and ways to improve the game, not the sensationalist extremism that it can quickly descends into.

- There is nothing more frustrating to me than people not actually listening to the podcast but jumping on the opinion bandwagon of another. Please guys, we are spending the time planning and recording these SPECIFICALLY for the Madden community...you could at least give us the respect of listening to it and forming an opinion of your own.

Maybe we should just stop doing these for a while if too many people aren't able to cope with the lack of real information and turn that into a negative thing. That's not what we want out of these at all...we just want to give people a behind the scenes look at the development process and decision making. Thoughts?

When it comes to franchise mode people only want to hear how it will be fixed and when. Six years with "frankenstein franchise mode" has worn peoples patients and alot that was said in the podcast about franchise mode was said two years ago.
I think the fact you can't give out any definate information at this stage is only going to leave us guessing from the impressions we get from the podcasts. Which will probably have us guessing wrong but it's gonna happen.

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

As another poster said, instead of telling us what the "challenges" are, why not tell us what you can do? But there again, you have to be cryptic, can't commit, etc. (unless it's MUT apparently).

It goes both ways. I'm sorry you're discouraged regarding some of the responses here, but in many regards, this podcast wasn't very encouraging either when looking at the sum of the statements.

I'm sure you guys mean well, but surely you can understand where some of the disappointment is coming from.

Fair enough then, we'll stop the podcasts, since we can't tell you what we can do.

[rooney8]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

I made that comment. With all due respect I stand by it.

We've been through enough cycles to know that you have to be cryptic in December. It's a given. I certainly wasn't expecting anything specific.

But again, taking all those comments together, I hear EA staff emphasizing time...lots of it. Conversely, I don't hear any talk of committing to much of anything. And I'm not talking about specifics like you are above, I'm talking even about generalities.

I respectfully submit you appear to want it both ways. You want the luxury of not committing to anything (even in general) because certain things may not make it in, you have to be cryptic this time of year, etc., but then you seemingly get discouraged when you see responses where people are less then enthused with all the "time" talk repeatedly thrown out there (especially in this podcast alone). This repeated use of "time" along with the history of using that time for other features nobody asked for is just wearing thin.

I for one and not "fired up"--I'm more or less somewhat tired. Again, with all due respect, this podcast had lots of talking, but not much was said. As another poster said, instead of telling us what the "challenges" are, why not tell us what you can do? But there again, you have to be cryptic, can't commit, etc. (unless it's MUT apparently).

It goes both ways. I'm sorry you're discouraged regarding some of the responses here, but in many regards, this podcast wasn't very encouraging either when looking at the sum of the statements.

I'm sure you guys mean well, but surely you can understand where some of the disappointment is coming from.

It was actually quite a negative podcast.
If I can remember time constraints were mentioned alot. It takes 3 times as long to add some things now as it used to. The code left by the previous team is making it difficult for some things. I got the impression the team isn't as big as it used to be. Not the things I wanted to hear.

[Jono078]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

Fair enough then, we'll stop the podcasts, since we can't tell you what we can do.

No no no lol..

I quite like listening to your guys visions and then watching it all unfold in due time.

I've said it the whole time, I believe in you and your team to get Madden right. Can be frustrating at times, for both us and you guys I imagine.

But by all means keep up the podcasts, I like listening about anything involving developing Madden / games really.

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #3

Some responses / questions...

- WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC FEATURES FOR MADDEN 12. You hopefully know that by now. Quotes like "Taken together, however, I see them very carefully attempting to set expectations." are just wrong. IT IS DECEMBER, WE HAVE TO BE CRYPTIC. If you are the type of guy that is going to get fired up about not enough talk about specific improvements, then I suggest you don't listen to the podcast.

- Nowhere in the podcast are we saying it's going to take multiple years for you to see any improvements, or that 12 won't have any. See point above, and I can say we have been working on Franchise improvements for some time now.

- "And as far as that "cant make drastic improvements in one cycle" BS....". Where did we ever say that? I 100% believe that drastic improvements can be made in one cycle.

- "I guess after these podcasts, it just looks to me like Madden isn't gonna be a game I'm gonna ever like on these consoles." Does that statement seem a little ridiculous to anyone else? After a podcast that discusses ZERO REAL FEATURE ADDITIONS you aren't going to like Madden, EVER? I always hoped that this forum would eventually be a great place for feedback and ways to improve the game, not the sensationalist extremism that it can quickly descends into.

- There is nothing more frustrating to me than people not actually listening to the podcast but jumping on the opinion bandwagon of another. Please guys, we are spending the time planning and recording these SPECIFICALLY for the Madden community...you could at least give us the respect of listening to it and forming an opinion of your own.

Maybe we should just stop doing these for a while if too many people aren't able to cope with the lack of real information and turn that into a negative thing. That's not what we want out of these at all...we just want to give people a behind the scenes look at the development process and decision making. Thoughts?

I hope you guys will continue to do these podcasts because it shows that you guys are enganged with the community. I can understand your frustration with some posts but I think you should also understand the frustration of some posters.

I think I read somewhere you like the Dallas Cowboys. Now aside from the fact as a life long Skins fan, that makes me sick to my stomach, imagine if their games and any other Dallas Cowboys media could only be seen, exclusively, on one network. That network required $60 to watch it each football season, you felt their commentators were bad, you didn't like their network's coverage of the games and you believed overall, they could do a better job. Every year, for 6 years, you tried to give constructive critism and while somethings changed, you felt alot of what you were told would improve about the network and it's coverage of the Dallas Cowboys, didn't happen.

I think for the most part we want the same thing you and the other devs do, an annually solid NFL video game.

Also, in the podcast, you guys mentioned it was easy to add an option to hide ratings. Even without a better scouting system right now, I would love to have that option. I think in the future, any OPTIONS you guys can add, that are simple and don't take away from resources too much, is a good thing.