Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

[OnlookerDelay]

GoNintendo.com recently published a scan of a Walmart game release sheet for 2011. Three of the items on the list were Tiger Woods PGA Tour 12: Masters Edition, for the XBox 360, PS3, and Wii. They were dated 3/29/2011. This would suggest to me that they are timing it for a release just prior to the Masters, therefore in inescapable conclusion is that Augusta National will at long last be part of the Tiger Woods package. Here's a link to the scan, which looks legit to me - http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/console4.jpg

I also read at the official Tiger Woods forum that there was a video on USTREAM, showing the game in some shape, form or manner. That link is now gone as is the video at USTREAM, so obviously someone leaked material that wasn't blessed for release yet.

If they've indeed secured Augusta for this year's game, it couldn't have come at a better time. Tiger Woods 11's sales were down considerably from TW 2010. I have no doubt that Tiger's trevails and lack of media presence late last year and earlier this year have something to do with that. Offering Augusta National in the game will give the series a much needed shot in the arm. I'm also thinking a fully integrated Move and Kinect implementation for Tiger Woods PGA Tour 12: Masters Edition will help give it a fresh new appeal.

The downside of this 9 1/2 month, shortened development cycle is they probably haven't had time to give the games basic underpinnings some treatment, but as an XBox 360 owner, I'm at least hoping they get the Kinect interface right. I'd like to have a reason to finally buy a Kinect.

[fishepa]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

The reason the sales are down for this game every year is because every year it's the same game.

[bluengold34_OS]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

The reason the sales are down for this game every year is because every year it's the same game.

Agreed Paul.............

What they need to do is drastically overhaul career mode. If they start you out in Q-school, and really make you earn your way towards your card, it would have a tremendous impact on the series. They also need to allow the use of DLC courses in the PGA tour mode. That way you truly could have a different course for every tourney.

There are so many cool things they could with the PGA tour mode, which include real time presentation( think cut-away shots to see other players shots), real announcers that actually sound like they are viewing what you are doing. The list here could go on and on, and yet they never implement any of this.

If they do really plan on having Augusta in the game( which I am still very skeptical of ) then that would be a huge step in the right direction.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

The reason the sales are down for this game every year is because every year it's the same game.

That is way to simplistic. The game improved in a ton of areas in TW11. But Golf does not need to be an every year game. They could have held those improvements, and then improved the career mode this year, too. It would have felt like a much more was improved.

But calling 11 the same game as 10 is just failing to acknowledge how much it really did improve.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

The game certainly improved on the course but until Tiger is gone I don't see career mode being improved significantly. Right now it's basically a Tiger Wood career path simulator. You boost your guy and eventually you're at least in the running in every tournament (yes, generally even on Tour Pro). And even the on the course stuff needs to be completely redone IMO. Sure it's golf-like but this game is like a really dumbed down sports sim. Or I guess arcade golf. Feel free to disagree.

[DivotMaker]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

The reason the sales are down for this game every year is because every year it's the same game.

TW08 to TW10, agreed. TW10 to TW11, could not disagree more.

[DivotMaker]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

The game certainly improved on the course but until Tiger is gone I don't see career mode being improved significantly. Right now it's basically a Tiger Wood career path simulator. You boost your guy and eventually you're at least in the running in every tournament (yes, generally even on Tour Pro). And even the on the course stuff needs to be completely redone IMO. Sure it's golf-like but this game is like a really dumbed down sports sim. Or I guess arcade golf. Feel free to disagree.

Play TW11 with the Move in TOUR Pro with TrueAim on and get back to us on your "arcade golf" comments....

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

But calling 11 the same game as 10 is just failing to acknowledge how much it really did improve.

I see Tiger Woods 10 as being the most significant in the series in terms of making substantive improvements from the previous years. The fully proportional precision putting interface was a HUGE step forward, IMO! I was so tired of the "fire & forget", multiple putter range only interface (now called the "Classic" putting interface in '10 & '12) that I would tire of the game in 8 to 10 weeks. The precision putting interface requires more intuition and touch and this is what keeps me interested in playing the game year round now.

I also thought the inclusion of "Live Tournaments" in TW 10 was a major enhancement. I'll admit; however, that EA hasn't cashed in on the "liveness" aspect of Live Tournaments as comprehensively as they potentially could. Live tournaments would have so much more vitality and immediacy if you had the *option* to play them in groups of two, or more. (I emphasize option because I know many people wouldn't have time, or want to play them in multiplayer groups.)

Secondly, they should give you the option to play your round with a recorded round of a player who has already played the round. Of course, that player should have the right to consent to have their round offered as a recorded round to play along with, as some would see it as an advantage to watch their player play the round. I'm suggesting that you would only see the recorded player play their shot, preferably from your golfer's viewing perspective, and not know what club of shot type they were playing. This wouldn't be any different than a real round of golf.

Finally, Live Tournaments need to have a real time, hole-by-hole leaderboard, in which you can opt to view a leaderboard which may only show the scores of rounds in progress. Think about it, you could organize a shotgun start and everyone can see the hole-by-hole scores of your entire party.

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

TW08 to TW10, agreed. TW10 to TW11, could not disagree more.

Divot, if I were a PS3/Move owner, I'd probably agree with you here. As an XBox 360 owner, I'm stuck with the thumbstick experience until Tiger Woods PGA Tour 12: Masters Edition (hopefully!). So, from a thumbstick perspective, I'll stick with TW 10's Precision Putting interface as the biggest improvement in this series.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

I see Tiger Woods 10 as being the most significant in the series in terms of making substantive improvements from the previous years. The fully proportional precision putting interface was a HUGE step forward, IMO! I was so tired of the "fire & forget", multiple putter range only interface (now called the "Classic" putting interface in '10 & '12) that I would tire of the game in 8 to 10 weeks. The precision putting interface requires more intuition and touch and this is what keeps me interested in playing the game year round now.

I also thought the inclusion of "Live Tournaments" in TW 10 was a major enhancement. I'll admit; however, that EA hasn't cashed in on the "liveness" aspect of Live Tournaments as comprehensively as they potentially could. Live tournaments would have so much more vitality and immediacy if you had the *option* to play them in groups of two, or more. (I emphasize option because I know many people wouldn't have time, or want to play them in multiplayer groups.)

Secondly, they should give you the option to play your round with a recorded round of a player who has already played the round. Of course, that player should have the right to consent to have their round offered as a recorded round to play along with, as some would see it as an advantage to watch their player play the round. I'm suggesting that you would only see the recorded player play their shot, preferably from your golfer's viewing perspective, and not know what club of shot type they were playing. This wouldn't be any different than a real round of golf.

Finally, Live Tournaments need to have a real time, hole-by-hole leaderboard, in which you can opt to view a leaderboard which may only show the scores of rounds in progress. Think about it, you could organize a shotgun start and everyone can see the hole-by-hole scores of your entire party.

I don't really disagree with any of that, and I enjoyed the heck out of TW10 becasue of those improvements.

But TrueAim radically changed the way I thought about videogame golf. The random landing spots and variable wind when using TourPro made for a more compelling golf game than there has ever been on a console. Links included.

I wish the was better career mode, and I kind of hope they address it this year.

But the lack of sales is much attributed to the lack of any need for a yearly golf game. EA wuld have been better off to pile all of the improvements we saw in 11 into 12, along with whatever they have planned for the upcoming version. Without rosters that really need to be updated, there is nothing compelling 80% of the customers to buy each year.

EA and everyone else gets away with it in the team sport games, becasue we do crave the updated rosters. While I would like to see team sports game go to an every other year model, it is clearly profitable for EA not to.

But I don't think the same holds true for golf. I'm not sure what EA needs to do to get me to reinvest in a second year. Remember, we have all invested in courses that wll have to be re-bought if we upgrade. I sucked it up and bought 11. But I can see most people preferring to get a second year out of a game in which they poured a lot more than $60 into.

If EA wants us to buy yearly packs, the very least they need to do is use the Rockband method, and let us carry over out courses.

But it was not a lack of quality that hurt sales. So I hope EA understands that and improves on how they release the game.

[JimmyPelican]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

I didnt see the need to upgrade to 11. If Kinect is somehow supported for 12, this would give me a reason to upgrade.

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

The reason the sales are down for this game every year is because every year it's the same game.

Your post made me do a little research to see how this series has trended. I remember reading some shocking sales figures for Tiger Woods 11 at Venturebeat.com, stating that Tiger Woods game sales were 32% of what they were for TW 10. I then went to VG Chartz, which I know is not as reliable as NPD, but I thought I could at least get relative trend data there, using their figures. Here's what I found for the XBox 360 versions of Tiger Woods since the 2007 version:

Tiger Woods 07 - 860,000
Tiger Woods 08 - 690,000
Tiger Woods 09 - 680,000
Tiger Woods 10 - 630,000
Tiger Woods 11 - 310,000

The drop in sales from 10 to 11 speak to more than it 'being the same game every year' from my perspective. Did 300,000 potential buyers suddenly say "this is the same game I bought last year, I'm not buying it this year?" I think there was more to it than that... I'm not putting it all on Tiger's indiscrections and his sudden disappearance from the spotlight, but I think it had substantially more to do with it than hundreds of thousands of people suddenly having an epiphany and saying - "this is the same game every year". I think there's still a factor in this that I haven't been able to put my finger on as yet.

BTW, I somewhat agree with you that it is basically the same game every year at its core. With all but the exception of Tiger Woods 10, I've felt like I was paying full price for a feature patch. I've liked the game enough over the last two years to not regret my purchase though... it just frustrates me that they can't seem shape this game into something much more satisfying and complete.

[fishepa]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

EA has the power to make this game the best golf game on the market hands down but it seems they just don't want to try. The presentation is just awful, need dynamic camera angles during shots, just like when I'm watching on TV. LIttle things, like when I change out the shafts on my clubs, it puts the same shaft on EVERY SINGLE CLUB, including the putter!? What the hell is that about? Do any of them even play golf?

[yesrushdt]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

EA has the power to make this game the best golf game on the market hands down but it seems they just don't want to try. The presentation is just awful, need dynamic camera angles during shots, just like when I'm watching on TV. .........Do any of them even play golf?

I wonder that every time I play the Xbox360 version lol. The game would be so much better if all of these problems were rectified:

• I'm in complete agreement about the cameras. They really need to do a better job of mimicking a TV style presentation (for all modes whether it be single player season or online multiplayer).
  
  I think TW03-04 for PC really had it perfected. You should be able to choose from preset camera angles (PC version had 10). The ability to manually change the camera to any angle with the left and right analog sticks (while your golfer is up......not just your online opponent) should be in there as well. This option should be a given for properly reading the greens. You should be able to manually change it and leave it at that angle without worrying about it moving to the default position directly behind the golfer.
  
  
• Balls often end up in a totally different spot than where you initially saw them land. This happens the most in bunkers (a ball close to the lip "magically" moves to the center of the bunker) but other areas too like when it's close to a tree or bush. Golfers are supposed to play the ball where it lies, but you wouldn't know that playing the game. Give players the option to manually drop the ball or rehit (like the PC version) if they're too close to an obstruction or in an ob area.
  
  
• Another annoying situation. You could be just short of the green (in the rough) at Celtic Manor's 3rd hole (par 3) and it throws you back 170 yards or so in front of the tee box in the rough. This happens far too often on many other holes/courses throughout the game.
  
  
• OB Areas are ridiculous. You could hit it 20-30 feet over the green of the 3rd hole at Spyglass and that's considered OB. Again, this occurs far too often on other holes/courses. It would be nice if they could render the entire course (or at least the surrounding holes) and avoid these OB issues.

Sadly, I doubt these problems will be resolved any time soon (certainly not by next year with the shorter development time). Hopefully another developer like 2K games will come to the forefront and release a superior golf game that's more sim based. The competition would certainly give EA some incentive to make a better game.

[DivotMaker]

Re: Augusta National likely for Tiger Woods 12?

• Balls often end up in a totally different spot than where you initially saw them land. This happens the most in bunkers (a ball close to the lip "magically" moves to the center of the bunker) but other areas too like when it's close to a tree or bush. Golfers are supposed to play the ball where it lies, but you wouldn't know that playing the game. Give players the option to manually drop the ball or rehit (like the PC version) if they're too close to an obstruction or in an ob area.

Hopefully another developer like 2K games will come to the forefront and release a superior golf game that's more sim based. The competition would certainly give EA some incentive to make a better game.

The issue has to do with a rendering decision dictated usually by 3D trees, bushes, etc which would clip the 3D Golfer and cause rendering and collision detection problems, not to mention not being able to swing at the ball properly. Has nothing to do with anything other than tradeoffs due to the issue stated above.

Good luck with another developer coming along and offering a more simulation based game. Take 2 owns the Links IP and has for over 5 years and not a single mention of bringing out another version of Links. CPG 2 (Custom Play Golf 2) has changed names and developers more times than I can remember and is technically a simulation-like game, but the presentation and hardware requirements are horrible, not to mention the game is a commercial flop just like the first one was. John Daly was supposed to release a PC version of their game in October and it still hasn't been released. If it ever does release, it will be WITHOUT online play. As I said above, good luck getting another company to release a superior simulation.....