Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

[fringeelement]

I'm a strict offline 'chise guy. Have been since the feature was implemented. I avoid online like the plague because of all th horror stories about cheesers and glitchers. with that said, the dream of an online franchise is probably what most enticed me about this new generation of systems. I think what's important is that they get one type of franchise perfected, whether it be on-line or off. If they concentrate on off-line, they have to perfect the A.I. They have to make it feel as if we are competing with other thinking and feelinf human beings, both on and off the field. If they concentrate on on-line they need to to perfect gameplay and completely eliminate cheese and glitches. If they do either of these things, they'll have the ultimate franchise mode and it wont matter if it's on-line or off-line. And I know that asking for perfection in any of these areas in a video game is probably impossible, but that should at leasst be the goal. If tht's what they shoot for they'll end up with something we all can be happy with.

[blood9585]

"Customization is king to sports gamers…." I totally agree with that comment Ian Cummings. This is a major reason why I would say custom playbooks has been a will continue to be my biggest wish list item for every new madden game.

[RAMSFAN21]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

im not impressed..the podcast is just the devs making excuses again, where not asking for u to reinvent the wheel just give us back what we already had

[Segagendude]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

of the billion things i would add to the game, making it "more social" is not something i EVER would have mentioned. Are you kidding?

Great. A Madden Facebook app that'll rival Farmville.......

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

@ the Madden devs, you guys seem to keep asking the question of what "it" is that Madden gamers want, as if "it" is some unattainable substance to satisfy everyone. Let me get the disclaimer out the way, that of course, there is NO WAY to please EVERYBODY. That said, you guys can satisfy a heck of alot more gamers and drastically decrease Madden criticism just by changing the perspective that you guys have when creating Madden.

A minority of people have been to an actual NFL game and an even smaller percentage, attend NFL games regularly. That means the overwhelming majority of people who experience the NFL, do so through some kind of broadcast medium. This concept is bedrock to understand how to create a NFL video game that most people can experience the same way they do the actual NFL.

Before anyone tunes me out and thinks this is just another presentation request, it's not, so hear me out. Commentary, halftime/wrap up shows, highlights, etc, are all good things BUT they are just icing on the cake. The cake, is the actual visual representation of NFL football being played out on the field. The reason people don't get the same NFL experience in Madden they do from the actual NFL, is because the on-field visuals don't play out reasonably the same. This is why the "gameplay first" crowd feels just as frustrated as the presentation and franchise guys, even though you guys work on gameplay, every year. It's not that you guys actually skip a year or two working on gameplay, like with other areas, it's just that some gameplay upgrades don't visually represent NFL football all that well.

Think about it, when you are having a vivid dream that seems real until, something happens that's not quite right, it exposes the illusion and you realize you are dreaming. The same concept often happens when playing Madden. Most Madden gamers are NOT certified NFL football experts but most have seen NFL game broadcasts, repeatedly, in some form. This repetition causes a visual expectation for NFL football and for alot of us, it's subconscious. That's why you can run a play and regardless of its' success or failure, it often feels artificial and not quite right, even when you can't explain exactly what's wrong about it. This is because some aspects of the play in Madden were visually represented different from an actual NFL game broadcast. I am not referring to camera angles or overlays here but the actual way player interactions visual play out on the Madden field versus the broadcast NFL field.

You guys really should consider just setting up 2 tvs and running Madden 11 on one and an actual NFL game broadcast on the other. Completely turn the sound off for both, ignore the presentation "icing" in the NFL game broadcast and just focus on the ALL the different player interactions in each play, on both tvs and compare. Then focus on getting plays in Madden to reasonably visually mimic ALL player interactions from the NFL broadcast. I will not go into some long list of position by position interactions because I think you guys know NFL football pretty well. However, you guys should not only look at what player interactions are playing out in the NFL game but also why. The little things like how a 300 lb OL and 300 lb DL visually interact versus how a 300 lb OL and 230 lb LB visually interact. These little things are visually critical in ALL the player interactions in the NFL game broadcast and really make or break the NFL experience in Madden. I keep repeating "visual" because it is critical for the NFL experience, that gamers can visibly notice these similarities. For example, protak is a great concept but if it doesn't translate well visually, like eliminating "tumbleweed/bowling pin" tackles, it doesn't really help visually simulate the NFL experience.

I commend you guys for all the effort you seem to put into Madden and I really enjoy these podcasts. However, I honestly believe if you guys come at Madden 12 from this posted perspective, everything else with the game will easily fall into place, including increased satisfaction from the Madden community and more recognition of yearly improvements.

[ryan36]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

Tlc, I agree with you. just in general it's like they have this list of 95 features to put in, but the game still doesn't have an "identity." Post patch, it's pretty awesome, but I still may not buy 12. I buy it used cuz it's football , and I don't play online anyway. 34.99 at a used store or 59.99 full price = $25 a year roster updates.

The game just needs a soul. Some signature thing that pervades it's essence in every gameplay mode.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

I will save my "constructive criticism" till after the New Year, Happy Holidays to you and the entire EA family.

TLC, you need to work on your New Years Resolutions. tsk tsk, sorry couldn't resist that one.

There isn't much to disagree with your above post, just remember, they also have a marketing department that is equally involved as the development department.

Also, I do believe they watch the NFL and at the same time, have copies of the next Madden in a computer. This was very evident when part of the team visited Madden. It just needs to all come together at some point.

[Hova57]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

Tlc, I agree with you. just in general it's like they have this list of 95 features to put in, but the game still doesn't have an "identity." Post patch, it's pretty awesome, but I still may not buy 12. I buy it used cuz it's football , and I don't play online anyway. 34.99 at a used store or 59.99 full price = $25 a year roster updates.

The game just needs a soul. Some signature thing that pervades it's essence in every gameplay mode.

I personally have played madden 11 maybe 7 times. my son likes it alot more than i do. but after listening to the podcast i get the impression that they get it , but don't.

I don't think they could add the soul need for the game only because the soul of football is the unexpectedness of it all. not everyone is x and o type of guy and football its mostly the x and o and the excitement of when it goes your way. to some this may be boring and cater to one area. so like they said in the podcast what do you do.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

There isn't much to disagree with your above post, just remember, they also have a marketing department that is equally involved as the development department.

An intelligent company would have stopped taking their cues from marketing once they cornered (aka bought out) the market. You don't need MARKETing when you are the MARKET.

I still feel that the flaws with Madden, NCAA, Tiburon, and EA are all management driven. Can't prove it without a doubt, but the mistakes being made are typical of poor management and planning.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

An intelligent company would have stopped taking their cues from marketing once they cornered (aka bought out) the market. You don't need MARKETing when you are the MARKET.

I still feel that the flaws with Madden, NCAA, Tiburon, and EA are all management driven. Can't prove it without a doubt, but the mistakes being made are typical of poor management and planning.

You are probably going into the area of blowing up the business model.

I'm just trying to remind people that the way the current business model is, Ian, Phil, Donnie and Josh aren't the only people with influences in what's inside the game.

[Hova57]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

An intelligent company would have stopped taking their cues from marketing once they cornered (aka bought out) the market. You don't need MARKETing when you are the MARKET.

I still feel that the flaws with Madden, NCAA, Tiburon, and EA are all management driven. Can't prove it without a doubt, but the mistakes being made are typical of poor management and planning.

i believe it was poor marketing and management. Marketing fault for giving impression a type of consumer they can get a share in without fully understanding exactly how and what their product can do or does to attract that type. Management not giving or allowing the right tools to for your development team work to the best of their abilities.

Management is all about what you give your team to make the service or product successful. I've worked in situations where the tools giving ie equipment, managment knowledge and expections were poor. I've also had great equipent , good management team, but the higher up expection and knowledge is poor. You gotta find a happy medium. That's we EA stands now is finding the happy medium. I believe the managment teams are fine, but it what above them is what needs the tweaking. I believe i read that there is one guy who over seeas production for games using the same materials. i think this is just the beginning of bridging the gap.

[Hunkerdown]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

My two cents........ If Madden would go the direction the NCAA team has with OD, this in my opinion would be a winner for all. I have a OD with 12 guys and we are in year 3; if it was like Madden's online franchise it would of never made it out of year 1. I like the mix of online with offline features as well. We have a full dynasty that keeps everyone coming back. The key is having a good group of guys and a strong commish that doesn't take cheese ballers; and with the ability to have sliders for all cpu opponents games, it has made it golden!! Since I have this full OD I don't even need to play offline also; since it just like playing offline with the human team aspect as well.

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

I personally have played madden 11 maybe 7 times. my son likes it alot more than i do. but after listening to the podcast i get the impression that they get it , but don't.

I don't think they could add the soul need for the game only because the soul of football is the unexpectedness of it all. not everyone is x and o type of guy and football its mostly the x and o and the excitement of when it goes your way. to some this may be boring and cater to one area. so like they said in the podcast what do you do.

I have disagree with this. I think, it's actually the things we expect to see in Madden, from the NFL, that we don't, is what hurts the experience. When I watch a NFL game, my excitement is generated mostly by my expectations of the sport I have seen play out for so many years. The main unexpected excitement, for me, comes from the anticipation if my team will actually win and how the outcome will unfold. I think Madden actual does capture that unexpected spirit of "any given Sunday" but it's the things I expect to see play out on the NFL field, like "multi-hit tackles", WR/DB hand fighting, OL/DL trench warfare and QB/passing pocket necessity, that I think Madden does a poor job of.

[tlc12576]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

TLC, you need to work on your New Years Resolutions. tsk tsk, sorry couldn't resist that one.

There isn't much to disagree with your above post, just remember, they also have a marketing department that is equally involved as the development department.

Also, I do believe they watch the NFL and at the same time, have copies of the next Madden in a computer. This was very evident when part of the team visited Madden. It just needs to all come together at some point.

LOL. Yeah, I meant to put to after Christmas but...oh well.

To your point about marketing, I feel that but like I have said before, I'm addressing the things the devs are allowed to add. Like protak, it made it in the game for whatever reason but it currently does a poor job of visually representing the tackles you see in a NFL game broadcast. Especially when compared with a more basic tackle animation system used in NFL 2k5. I feel confident saying all this because Ian said the same thing in his Madden 10 blog about protak and that's how I know it.

He admitted to sacrificing visual realism to give the user more control. I think this is the wrong perspective to have when creating a NFL video game and that's why I suggested a change. Just like with NBA Elite, EA thought they could put out a visually inferior sports title and make the unprecedented user control using the new physics system its' main selling point. You see how that went over, because when simulating an actual sport, it is critical for a next-gen video game to meet a reasonable visual standard of the real sport. People have a visual expectation that has already been set by the repetition of seeing these sports play out, in real life.

Sacrificing visual realism for control in any simulation, is a complete contradiction. If they are building Madden to be a NFL simulation, that should mean they are building it to simulate what we see play out, on a NFL field. Except for the actual NFL players on the field, the rest of us experience the NFL visually and when that doesn't carry over the same to Madden, it disrupts our NFL experience.

More user control is great but how that control plays out visually is critical for user enjoyment. Until they set their focus on reasonable visual NFL realism for ALL aspects, Madden will continue to feel like it's missing something.

That something is the visual connection most Madden gamers, casual and hardcore, have mentally with the actual NFL.

[illwill10]

Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

One of the problems I see with Madden current gen is that one year they improve or add a feature then they put it on the backburner for the next few years(SS, Online franchise, off. franchise) and they will try to add more features. They should just improve all aspects they have and then try to add more features. When you dont improves features or key aspects they get dull and dont get play time(SS mode).