FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

[KingV2k3]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I am kind of shocked at how many guys asked questions and made assumptions on this topic / site that coupld have easily been answered by simply reading the preceeding posts in this thread...

That being said, I applaud your efforts, and the fact that it could actually get it's "day in court" at the game's developers, is an exciting possiblity...

Here's my "two cents"...

AWR is a mess in this game...

Rookies often come in so low, that they will never be able to get up to an AWR rating in this game that will eventually make them "starter material"...

Esp. at the QB position...low AWR rated guys play waaaaay stupid...

I suggest that instead of giving them super low AWR and decent passing attributes, you balance all the relevant rookie ratings out so that they have a chance to develop...

Same thing with OL...they come in with decent blocking attributes, but it's not worth much if they always pick the wrong guy / wrong angle, due to really low AWR...

IMHO there should be a much smaller "range" with this attribute...

Regards!

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I am kind of shocked at how many guys asked questions and made assumptions on this topic / site that coupld have easily been answered by simply reading the preceeding posts in this thread...

That being said, I applaud your efforts, and the fact that it could actually get it's "day in court" at the game's developers, is an exciting possiblity...

Here's my "two cents"...

AWR is a mess in this game...

Rookies often come in so low, that they will never be able to get up to an AWR rating in this game that will eventually make them "starter material"...

Esp. at the QB position...low AWR rated guys play waaaaay stupid...

I suggest that instead of giving them super low AWR and decent passing attributes, you balance all the relevant rookie ratings out so that they have a chance to develop...

Same thing with OL...they come in with decent blocking attributes, but it's not worth much if they always pick the wrong guy / wrong angle, due to really low AWR...

IMHO there should be a much smaller "range" with this attribute...

Regards!

I can't agree more about the readers not READING the posts. It's unfortunate.

As for AWR I also realized this as a huge issue. AWR has a stunning positive correlation to the OVR of a player. It also has a positive correlation to the EXP of a player...statistically speaking.

What I came up with was a way to use both to determine the AWR of a player. Simply making a rookie's AWR equal to OVR-10+EXP allows the correlation to OVR to remain. After each year completed, 1 AWR point is added to that equation. So if a rookie is a 70 his AWR is 60 in his first season. If after his first year he jumps up to 75, his awr is now 66 (OVR-10+EXP) since he gained 1 year of EXP. What ends up happening is you get guys who have been in the league the longest getting more AWR.

It also sets a minimum for the AWR rating. The lowest a player can be rated is a 40 OVR, and as a rookie, his EXP can be a minimum of 0. Therefore, the lowest AWR is 30. However, as a player matures that number will go up with EXP, even if the player is still rated as a 40 OVR.

Thoughts?

[sniperhare]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I can't agree more about the readers not READING the posts. It's unfortunate.

As for AWR I also realized this as a huge issue. AWR has a stunning positive correlation to the OVR of a player. It also has a positive correlation to the EXP of a player...statistically speaking.

What I came up with was a way to use both to determine the AWR of a player. Simply making a rookie's AWR equal to OVR-10+EXP allows the correlation to OVR to remain. After each year completed, 1 AWR point is added to that equation. So if a rookie is a 70 his AWR is 60 in his first season. If after his first year he jumps up to 75, his awr is now 66 (OVR-10+EXP) since he gained 1 year of EXP. What ends up happening is you get guys who have been in the league the longest getting more AWR.

It also sets a minimum for the AWR rating. The lowest a player can be rated is a 40 OVR, and as a rookie, his EXP can be a minimum of 0. Therefore, the lowest AWR is 30. However, as a player matures that number will go up with EXP, even if the player is still rated as a 40 OVR.

Thoughts?

I think they should do IQ instead of AWR and have the playbook knowledge from HC be the new AWR. It starts low as a rookie, and will take a hit if you play out of position or change positions, but greatly improves after the rookie season.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I think they should do IQ instead of AWR and have the playbook knowledge from HC be the new AWR. It starts low as a rookie, and will take a hit if you play out of position or change positions, but greatly improves after the rookie season.

I think that's a great idea, but until they do that we are stuck with their system. The point of the site is to simply re-do HOW they rate players in THEIR system...not change the whole system itself. That would be too easy to consider and yet impossible to impose.

[KingV2k3]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I can't agree more about the readers not READING the posts. It's unfortunate.

As for AWR I also realized this as a huge issue. AWR has a stunning positive correlation to the OVR of a player. It also has a positive correlation to the EXP of a player...statistically speaking.

What I came up with was a way to use both to determine the AWR of a player. Simply making a rookie's AWR equal to OVR-10+EXP allows the correlation to OVR to remain. After each year completed, 1 AWR point is added to that equation. So if a rookie is a 70 his AWR is 60 in his first season. If after his first year he jumps up to 75, his awr is now 66 (OVR-10+EXP) since he gained 1 year of EXP. What ends up happening is you get guys who have been in the league the longest getting more AWR.

It also sets a minimum for the AWR rating. The lowest a player can be rated is a 40 OVR, and as a rookie, his EXP can be a minimum of 0. Therefore, the lowest AWR is 30. However, as a player matures that number will go up with EXP, even if the player is still rated as a 40 OVR.

Thoughts?

Your system makes sense to me...can't really think of a better way to work within the constraints of the exisiting framework of the game...

If you want to get "fancy" with it, you could add an arbitrary initial point or two to:

1) Guys who play in a "pro" system in college (quicker adaption curve)

2) Guys who score through the roof on the Wonderlic

3) Guys who are known "scholar athletes"

4) Stay and play for the full 4 years in college

In this example, you'd be giving A. Luck an AWR that is (for example) 75 OVR - 10 = 65 AWR plus three for getting a point for hitting 3 for 4 on the above criteria, to equal 68, which is pretty reasonable (IMO)...

You could also deduct from guys who:

1) Are playing a new position for the first time in the pros (converted QBs)

2) Score really low on the Wonderlic

3) Play a skill position in a offence that is unique to college, like Triple Option, Spread Option, etc...

4) Leave early for pros, giving them less experience in a top level of competition

5) Are suspended for academic reasons

It would be a lot of research, and possibly a huge pain for little return, but it would make your system a little more "fluid"...

[KingV2k3]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

On a related note, I highly reccomend you take alook at this thread, Dan:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...them-play.html

Even though it deals with NCAA, as opposed to Madden, many of the base principals are the same...

'Skillz and some of the other guys who contributed to that thread are most certainly on to something...

[loloben]

I think Madden needs a tiny bit of rating tweaking, but it mostly needs overhauls in franchise and superstar

[huskerwr38]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I think Madden needs a tiny bit of rating tweaking, but it mostly needs overhauls in franchise and superstar

Ian has been eluding to the fact that they be adding a roster editing tool for franchise mode. He has been asking the community on how should it be implemented in the game. So that's good news.

[BlackRome]

Far as game play. Madden has to stop allowing passes to the RB's and crossing routes be the only passes 90% of the people throw online.

You shouldn't allow people to be competitive when all they throw is two routes a game.

It's not football. It's stick the RB and watch the crossing route.

.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Thanks for the input guys.

The big thing that needs to be done differently, IMO, is how the players are rated...which is why I am bringing attention to the site. Have you all seen the arguments in the EA forums about certain players' speed ratings before? How rookies come in way faster and more athletic than guys already in the game? How they seem to ignore things like 40 times, etc. and get fast guys playing slow? That is the stuff that needs to change. How about rating inflation where you have half the league over 90 OVR after a few seasons!? That is the stuff that this site in particular is trying to fix. No more BS ratings developed by guys who have probably never played football, coached, or scouted at any level.

[guaps]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

While I applaud Dan's hard work for doing what Tiburon should have done in the first place, I personally feel it's a waist of time. Ratings that reflect "hard data" won't necessarily translate into more realistic gameplay unless we have a complete understanding of how ratings affect gameplay. As it is now I don't think anyone, including the developers really, have that overview.

The best "ratings" system I've seen so far in football video games has been the "no-ratings" approach by 2k. If Tiburon really want to make their game "Simpler, Deeper, Quicker" they'll have to take a long, hard look at that approach, because 50+ ratings with little to no transparency makes it, IMO, very hard to distinguish weaknesses from strengths in Madden regardless of "hard data" or not.

[PanthersGM305]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Dan , This is a Quick one if lets say use the ratings for ex. Big Ben is OVR 85 , The Champ Aaron Rogers has a OVR 95 if they we're to play in Madden edit the ratings to whats on FBGratings I'd say Rogers would out play Big Ben with those ratings. Should he be rate higher like 94 the guy has won 2 rings.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

While I applaud Dan's hard work for doing what Tiburon should have done in the first place, I personally feel it's a waist of time. Ratings that reflect "hard data" won't necessarily translate into more realistic gameplay unless we have a complete understanding of how ratings affect gameplay. As it is now I don't think anyone, including the developers really, have that overview.

The best "ratings" system I've seen so far in football video games has been the "no-ratings" approach by 2k. If Tiburon really want to make their game "Simpler, Deeper, Quicker" they'll have to take a long, hard look at that approach, because 50+ ratings with little to no transparency makes it, IMO, very hard to distinguish weaknesses from strengths in Madden regardless of "hard data" or not.

That's where I am a step ahead. I have spent the last 2 years analyzing how ratings affect gameplay. It has been broken down attribute by attribute via testing of m10 and m11. It took almost 2 years to do it, but it also helped me develop a working slider and threshold setting. Why else do u think it took so long. If I get some time I will write up a post about what I found.

The big difference is how those ratings are measured and implemented. One example would be agility. My findings indicate that the agility rating has less of an impact on making agile moves than the RB specific ratings. So much so that it is nearly negligent. However, that rating has a bigger impact on performance for an OT...even though an OT still has footwork ratings.

It's possible to understand how these ratings work but it takes time to do it all. The disappointing thing is EA keeps changing their motion. So the next best thing is to use the hard data we have to break down the ratings distribution and create a system of uniformity and cohesion, which I have attempted.

[Vizen]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

If we use these roster attribute adjustments, how will the draft classes effect the game, since those players do not have the ability to be re-rated?

[Jukeman]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

if it wasnt for that site, I wouldnt have found MM and OS.