Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

How do you figure? It was said that the marketing team has a pretty big say on what the main features are and the game itself. The former college QB is a current EA employee, which means he too has to go by what he is told to do.

I don't disagree, I'm just playing devil's advocate. For all I know, he could be the missing piece of the puzzle that drives Madden over the hump. Both EA football games are already offense driven, so hopefully his (former) position doesn't affect the future premise of upcoming editions too much. Madden needs some defensive work.

It can't hurt, can it?

My point is, the more people with knowledgeable football experience, the better. That is not discrediting Ian and company.

I agree, though, more defense please.

[BostonJay14]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

Tuner sets are indisputably important if you've experienced how they helped out NCAA 11 this past year. Surprise onsides fall into the "cool new tidbit" category, but it's something the community has been asking for since the Saints did it; why can't credit and thank them for getting that in this year rather than immediately dismissing it as "fluff"?

i know tuners are important... but to me, thats not a feature. its a tool for them to fix things. i liken it to getting an extended warranty on something. it doesnt really add anything to what you bought, but its nice to know if there is a problem it can get fixed/replaced. this should be standard, not something viewed as a feature or extra. The ability to FIX/Tune things isnt a feature. its good to have, but certainly should just be an automatic.

More importantly, if you expected this blog to be a significant back-of-the-box feature reveal, particularly after Ian & co. said that it wouldn't be a headlining feature reveal (despite still being somewhat important), then I don't know what to tell you.

i didnt expect anything but minor things... my point was, IAN stated one of these wasnt fluff... i was very confused as to why he would think that. to me it was what was expected... 2 minor wrinkles that are nice but nothing to get excited about.



and as far as super minor things go, as mentioned, id prefer useful minor things... like being able to skip replays/cutscenes

[Keenan G.]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

i know tuners are important... but to me, thats not a feature. its a tool for them to fix things. i liken it to getting an extended warranty on something. it doesnt really add anything to what you bought, but its nice to know if there is a problem it can get fixed/replaced. this should be standard, not something viewed as a feature or extra. The ability to FIX/Tune things isnt a feature. its good to have, but certainly should just be an automatic.
i didnt expect anything but minor things... my point was, IAN stated one of these wasnt fluff... i was very confused as to why he would think that. to me it was what was expected... 2 minor wrinkles that are nice but nothing to get excited about.



and as far as super minor things go, as mentioned, id prefer useful minor things... like being able to skip replays/cutscenes

I agree with what you said and on your previous post.

Why not tell us everything? It is not like they are competing against 2k or any other football game.

I could understand if COD would want to hide features from Bad Company or any other military type FPS. Until the last minute. Madden on the other hand doesnt have anyone to hide features from. They are the only game in town.

[jeremym480]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

i know tuners are important... but to me, thats not a feature. its a tool for them to fix things. i liken it to getting an extended warranty on something. it doesnt really add anything to what you bought, but its nice to know if there is a problem it can get fixed/replaced. this should be standard, not something viewed as a feature or extra. The ability to FIX/Tune things isnt a feature. its good to have, but certainly should just be an automatic.
i didnt expect anything but minor things... my point was, IAN stated one of these wasnt fluff... i was very confused as to why he would think that. to me it was what was expected... 2 minor wrinkles that are nice but nothing to get excited about.

When it's Madden first year with turners then it's definitely something of note. Most people who have played games with tuners before know that they're not "fluff" or a "gimmick" that is just used as a tool for the Dev Team. It much more than that. Especially, in the world of sports gaming today where every game this gen has needed a patch. Sometimes certain companies can take 2 or 3 months for one patch. For EA and Madden to be able to expedite that process and cut weeks or even months off of game play tweaks is a huge benefit to Madden gamers no matter how negatively you want to look at it.

and as far as super minor things go, as mentioned, id prefer useful minor things... like being able to skip replays/cutscenes

A. Just because it wasn't mentioned on the first blog doesn't mean that it's not in.

And B. Just because it's something YOU want to see talked about doesn't mean that it important to everyone. Plus, if it was mentioned then there would still be people complaining and saying stuff like "this should be standard, not something viewed as a feature or extra". EA can't win.

[jeremym480]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

I agree with what you said and on your previous post.

Why not tell us everything? It is not like they are competing against 2k or any other football game.

I could understand if COD would want to hide features from Bad Company or any other military type FPS. Until the last minute. Madden on the other hand doesnt have anyone to hide features from. They are the only game in town.

EA doesn't even know what will or won't make it in yet but, you expect them to let us know? Makes sense.

[The GIGGAS]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

I agree with what you said and on your previous post.

Why not tell us everything? It is not like they are competing against 2k or any other football game.

I could understand if COD would want to hide features from Bad Company or any other military type FPS. Until the last minute. Madden on the other hand doesnt have anyone to hide features from. They are the only game in town.

Because the features aren't complete yet. They're just ideas right now. Some of them are in the process of getting implemented. Remember the complaints about how the crowd sounds were going to be improved, and then time ran out and they didn't get in?

Plus, you don't want to basically throw everything out at once, 5 months before your product goes gold. You want to throw features out there at intervals that keep the community interested in the game. They are competing against everyone else who makes games. If they have this one massive reveal in February, there's nothing to re-energize the fanbase in August, when the game actually comes out.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

Plus, you don't want to basically throw everything out at once, 5 months before your product goes gold. You want to throw features out there at intervals that keep the community interested in the game. They are competing against everyone else who makes games. If they have this one massive reveal in February, there's nothing to re-energize the fanbase in August, when the game actually comes out.

Well said. Not certain why some can't grasp this marketing 101 concept...

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

I like the tuner sets, especially after some of Madden 11's problems. There were problems with strat pad, kicking meter and overall defense that needed immediate attention. Hopefully, we aren't looking for a 5th patch in December to correct these things in Madden 12.

I don't like the surpise onsides as presented for a couple of reasons. First, as people have pointed out the video shows the kickoff get picked up very nonchalantly by the recieving team which takes away from the excitement of a moment like that. The other is that they are only allowing it 2x per game. Unless this game is being played with "fair play" settings, I don't like it. As another poster said, it shouldn't be limited imo. The success rate just should go down. After a second attempt, the kickoff team should be ready for it and it should have a next to zero chance of working.

I realise this is an early build, but if they are showing it to get feedback then that's my 2 cents. I think if it plays out like it did in the video and only allowed 2x per game for no real reason, then the feature won't be well recieved.

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

Because the features aren't complete yet. They're just ideas right now. Some of them are in the process of getting implemented. Remember the complaints about how the crowd sounds were going to be improved, and then time ran out and they didn't get in?

This x 1000. Remember that we're still five months out; EA is still hard at work on this game.

If such a scenario were to happen like the one Giggas poses, EA would at-worst potentially be opening themselves up to an unwanted lawsuit for false advertising, and at-best tick a lot of fans off for not delivering promised features.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

To the guys getting on the ones who are showing skepticism, let me just say there are reasons for the way they feel. Let's take a look back shall we? Madden 10's big feature... Online Franchise! Oh wait, it's not really online franchise, because it doesn't have any of the features that make it a "franchise". No cap or trade logic, but wait. We were told that these items were done server side and they could be easily added and possibly added during the season. Really? Well the season went on and it wasn't added, but surely next year right? A whole year to get it right now. Surprise! Not even touched in Madden 11. No sliders, no cap or trade or FA logic. Instead, a 25 year old kid had to write a web app to do it. Next, pro-tak! It's great, true gang tackling! Really? Ok, it was a good concept, and it sort of worked. Except there are no consecutive hit tackles, so it only engages when it wants to, and when it does, guys break out of 5 man gang tackles regularly. Whole year goes by, completely untouched!!! Not a single enhancement! What's next? Adaptive AI, touted highly in Madden 10 and showed how it can be tweaked and improved. In Madden 11, completely untouched and not enhanced, then simply forgot about. When questions were asked, you were ignored and labeled a "*****". Penalties... I remember seeing penalty blogs. What penalties were included? About half of the real NFL penalties, allowing me to go out of bounds at will and come back in to catch the ball, allowing my lineman to run 20 yards down field on screen plays before I throw the ball, having intentional grounding be called no matter if a receiver is in the area when I throw the ball away from within the pocket, not having pass interference EVER called unless I manually dive into the receiver or the DB. This went untouched for years.

This is not a bash, these are facts. There is not one thing on this list that can be disputed because it is not my opinion. So in all honesty, how can anyone who has any sense really put any stock into what their marketing says or does? Yes, Ian is a nice guy and he means to do well, but the fact remains it's the same old story. With so many things missing from the game, working on a feature like surprise onside kicks comes across as ridiculous to a lot of folks. Like I said before, it's a cool addition, but with so many other basics out of whack, it's a head scratcher how this can get dev time. Especially when you listen to the blogs and you hear the devs say that certain features take a long time and they are hard to do.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

Also, I feel that having a former college QB at the top will help out as well.

And just to put this out there about former QBs, they've had former football players on the team before. One of them helped design the playbooks if memory serves me correctly (might still be there, not sure), and one of the them, a former UF QB, was the MoCap for the QB throwing motions in Madden 08, which were horrible.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

And just to put this out there about former QBs, they've had former football players on the team before. One of them helped design the playbooks if memory serves me correctly (might still be there, not sure), and one of the them, a former UF QB, was the MoCap for the QB throwing motions in Madden 08, which were horrible.

All I meant is that it can't hurt.

The more the merrier is the way I see it.

Plus, having Fight Night on your resume can't hurt, either.

[guaps]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

This x 1000. Remember that we're still five months out; EA is still hard at work on this game.

If such a scenario were to happen like the one Giggas poses, EA would at-worst potentially be opening themselves up to an unwanted lawsuit for false advertising, and at-best tick a lot of fans off for not delivering promised features.

I don't worry too much about false promises or not delivering, but I just want them to be more open and frank about their own game and its flaws.

FIFA's producer David Rutter has already gone publicly about FIFA 12 - ~7 months from its release - and spoken somewhat critically about their AI (we've done a good job, but...) and called some of their current features "a bit lame" and "last-gen". He hasn't promised new features, but he's being very passionate about the game he's making and that is what I want to hear from a producer.

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

This is not a bash, these are facts.

Wholeheartedly disagree.

EA thus far has delivered everything they explicitly promised with online franchise; they never guaranteed server-side updates, and even if they did they've fulfilled that requirement via roster updates. Does that mean we're all happy with it? No. But they never mentioned salary cap / free agency in their buildup, rather they focused on the more multiplayer components of it.

I also dispute the notion that Pro-Tak was not adjusted from M10 to M11. It clearly was; larger pileups happen more appropriately, and the frequency of that one "get tackled by everybody... or not" animation was significantly reduced. There actually were animation improvements across the board between M10 and M11, though many of them were subtle things that aren't as immediately noticeable at first blush.

Finally, to my recollection, EA has never stated anything about adding more penalties beyond what is in the game already. They did add animations for penalties such as holding so that it has the appearance of being less random, thus appearing more realistic and have definitely tuned penalties; I see called penalties in this game out-of-the-box, which hasn't happened really ever before for me in a Madden game. Granted, they're probably still too low in frequency speaking from a "sim" gamer's perspective, but work has obviously been done to that end.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

Wholeheartedly disagree.

EA thus far has delivered everything they explicitly promised with online franchise; they never guaranteed server-side updates, and even if they did they've fulfilled that requirement via roster updates. Does that mean we're all happy with it? No. But they never mentioned salary cap / free agency in their buildup, rather they focused on the more multiplayer components of it.

I also dispute the notion that Pro-Tak was not adjusted from M10 to M11. It clearly was; larger pileups happen more appropriately, and the frequency of that one "get tackled by everybody... or not" animation was significantly reduced. There actually were animation improvements across the board between M10 and M11, though many of them were subtle things that aren't as immediately noticeable at first blush.

Finally, to my recollection, EA has never stated anything about adding more penalties beyond what is in the game already. They did add animations for penalties such as holding so that it has the appearance of being less random, thus appearing more realistic and have definitely tuned penalties; I see called penalties in this game out-of-the-box, which hasn't happened really ever before for me in a Madden game. Granted, they're probably still too low in frequency speaking from a "sim" gamer's perspective, but work has obviously been done to that end.

Server side fixes were promised based on usage.

Quote: " Because everything was built to be server-based for Online Franchise, things like CPU logic would have to be run on that server, so we were not able to make that a part of the online franchise experience by the time the game will hit the shelves. Based on usage once the game is released we will obviously look to update and change whatever the community feels is most important."

Taken from online franchise blog.

http://maddennfl.easports.com/blog.action?blogId=online%20franchise%201