The 3-4

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • JimK
    Rookie
    • Feb 2011
    • 60

    #1

    The 3-4

    The biggest issue I have with this game, other than the freezes, is the fact that the game only half-heartedly offers the option of the 3-4 defense. Here are the problems and suggested solutions:

    1. Just as you can see players through the lens of your system with the philosophy rating, you should be able to see all "tweener" type players' position based on your system. This would help the player a lot, but it would help the AI even more. Here's what I mean. In the draft, a certain player may be listed as a DT to a 4-3 team, but he would be listed as a DE to a 3-4 team. It would just depend on his skillset. Whichever of the two positions he has the highest rating in for that system would be the position he would be classified as to that team. So a giant run stopper would be a DT to both, but a smaller DT might be seen as a DE to a 3-4 team. Same thing with DE/OLB. This would allow you to actually be able to scout for the 3-4 in the draft, and it would especially help the AI draft and play players in their proper positions. There should also be a page where you can see all in one place what your player's ratings are for every position and for every philosophy.

    2. That leads into problem 2 because the solution to problem 1 would still be useless if we don't fix this one. All DE automatically have 10 coverage skills. There needs to be a system where if you scout a DE to be athletic and fluid enough to play OLB, you can get his coverage skills up. It would all be part of a more in-depth system I was referring to in number 1. It's ridiculous that I'm running a 3-4, but I can't draft any college DE for my OLB spots. No matter how athletic they are, the mere fact that they played DE in college dooms them to a life of 10 coverage skills. Not realistic. I envision a whole revamped system where a guy drafted as a tweener might start as 10 coverage skills, but upon conversion his potential would be generated based on his athletic ability with perhaps a random element to it as well.

    3. The 3rd problem currently with the 3-4 is with playbooks, specifically sub defenses. I just noticed this with my Lebeau 3-4 playbook. My nickel package takes out my LOLB for the extra CB. Not only leaves my run stuffer NT in game, but brings another one in to be my two DT. Then it puts my 5 technique DE as the outside rushers, and puts my best pass rusher, my ROLB as an ILB along with my top ILB (don't forget it took my second best pass rusher out of the game completely). I mean, come on. How lazy is this? This is a specific 3-4 playbook and you did the substitutions for the nickel just like a 4-3. Just copy and paste. Obviously my nickel package should be: take out the run stuffer for the CB. Put my DE as the DT. Put my OLB as the DE. And leave my ILB as the ILB. The best solution to this problem is that you should have a depth chart for every formation. For people that don't care, you can have a button that just copies your choices from one formation into all of them or lets the CPU do them.
    Last edited by JimK; 02-15-2011, 03:26 AM.
  • scorp
    Rookie
    • Oct 2008
    • 224

    #2
    Re: The 3-4

    You can edit the playbook to keep the players in that you want. just sub out the players you don't want with the ones you want.

    I use 3-4 all the time, I do draft DT's and move them to end, and some large LB's can also be good pass rushing ends for the 3-4. But yeah sucks that college DE can be a good rush/run support LB but that's it.

    I wish that the game would take your defense into account, it assumes 4-3 and that 2 DT are starters and one ILB is a starter. Sucks when your #2 starting ILB is unhappy about not starting, and you backup DT is in the probowl voting and makes it in. LOL
    Last edited by scorp; 02-15-2011, 11:27 AM. Reason: addition

    Comment

    • JimK
      Rookie
      • Feb 2011
      • 60

      #3
      Re: The 3-4

      Originally posted by scorp
      You can edit the playbook to keep the players in that you want. just sub out the players you don't want with the ones you want.

      I use 3-4 all the time, I do draft DT's and move them to end, and some large LB's can also be good pass rushing ends for the 3-4. But yeah sucks that college DE can be a good rush/run support LB but that's it.

      I wish that the game would take your defense into account, it assumes 4-3 and that 2 DT are starters and one ILB is a starter. Sucks when your #2 starting ILB is unhappy about not starting, and you backup DT is in the probowl voting and makes it in. LOL
      No offense my friend, but I think you may have missed my points a little bit. I know I can painstakingly recreate every nickel play in my playbook with the right personnel, but that's far from an ideal solution. And further, the AI can't do this.

      And I know I can draft DT and move them to DE. But two points are important here. For one, I can't scout these players properly because they are listed as DT and are therefore rated according to my DT prefs, not my DE prefs. I suppose I could find some awkward way to work with it, like changing my DT pref to penetrator for a draft in which I'm looking for DE, assuming that would be sort of like a 3-4 DE. But again, it's far from an ideal solution. What's more, it doesn't help the AI at all, who is really at a disadvantage with the 3-4 right now because it's not fully integrated into the game.

      Comment

      • JimK
        Rookie
        • Feb 2011
        • 60

        #4
        Re: The 3-4

        There are also some game play issues with the 3-4 defense. At least in some versions of it, such as that employed by the New England Patriots, depend on giant DLs commanding double teams in the running game and being able to cover two gaps, thus freeing up the ILBs to make the tackles. This simply doesn't exist in the game. Every player either wins a one on one battle or losses it; there are no double teams. So you wonder, if my LB is going to have to take on a G, I might as well just have another DT instead since he can take on a G one on one much better.

        Just lots of issues with the 3-4. You can still have the concept of a more athletic, versatile defense, but for the most part the 3-4 is very problematic in the game.

        Comment

        • damonb10
          Rookie
          • Sep 2008
          • 87

          #5
          Re: The 3-4

          JimK, you raise some good points as far as scouting goes. One way to help you with the substitution of the right players is that you can do a quick sub on the playcall screen. This quick sub will hold all the way through the game for that play and sometimes I've seen it carry through multiple plays of that formation. I don't run a 3-4, but do make some quick subs for nickel and dime to get better pass rushers on the field.

          Comment

          • scorp
            Rookie
            • Oct 2008
            • 224

            #6
            Re: The 3-4

            Believe me I understand it's a pain, the game assumes 4-3 and the logic (AI) follows that. you MLB can beat the guard do to another flaw in the game, a blitzing LB can split the guard tackle main on the left side of the OL repeatedly. Your LB can camp out in the backfield, but that ruins the game.

            Yes the game is flawed, but all in all one of the best football games I ever played, and majority of the issues stem from the old Madden engine the game used.
            Last edited by scorp; 02-22-2011, 10:41 AM.

            Comment

            • JimK
              Rookie
              • Feb 2011
              • 60

              #7
              Re: The 3-4

              Yep, best sports game I've played. I love it. I wish more people were like us so they could keep making new versions.

              Comment

              • Pass_The_Cows
                Rookie
                • Feb 2007
                • 411

                #8
                Re: The 3-4

                Originally posted by JimK
                Yep, best sports game I've played. I love it. I wish more people were like us so they could keep making new versions.
                Seriously. Every single person that has seen me play has concluded that the game sucks. I honestly have not met or heard of a single person outside this tiny board that like this game.
                NFL: Tampa Bay Buccaneers
                NCAAF: Miami Hurricanes
                MLB: Texas Rangers
                NHL: LA Kings

                Comment

                • browns_nation
                  Rookie
                  • Aug 2008
                  • 68

                  #9
                  Re: The 3-4

                  thats what I do in the draft, even if the best player in the draft is an OLB but is only listed at 230lbs, I'll pass on him because Im anal retentive and this player would be a 4-3 LB. I draft on skill and potential, yes, but if their physical attributes arent prototypical of my schemes, I usually pass.

                  Extremely frustrating when my 3-4 DL is getting manhandled at the LOS by smaller, lighter guards...thus canceling out the very purpose of this defense. my NT NEVER gets double teamed...thats not realistic.

                  Comment

                  • redbird294
                    Rookie
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 54

                    #10
                    Re: The 3-4

                    3-4 DE's not having pass coverage skills hurts, because in my 3-4 playbook I do a LOT of zone blitzing, which means those guys have to drop back every once in a while. I have to get around that by switching pass rusher OLB's with average pass coverage skills to DE (even though I don't want to, since I blitz with those guys), and blitzing ILBs or corners to at least get some pressure.

                    Comment

                    • shadowman
                      Rookie
                      • Oct 2007
                      • 229

                      #11
                      Re: The 3-4

                      I signed rookie DE Eric Baker the first year of a franchise and then moved him to OLB and he had coverage skills in the 70's. Is he just a one of a kind player?

                      Comment

                      • browns_nation
                        Rookie
                        • Aug 2008
                        • 68

                        #12
                        Re: The 3-4

                        I think he was one in a million. every UDFA player has a seemingly high potential in this game it seems but converting a players position and having that kind of skill at a position just doesnt seem realistic, even for a video game. I think you found yourself a freak of an athlete

                        Comment

                        • shadowman
                          Rookie
                          • Oct 2007
                          • 229

                          #13
                          Re: The 3-4

                          In a prior post someone stated that all DE's converted to OLB had coverage skills of 10, this is not true.I did some testing in my current franchise with signing DE's and then moving them to OLB to see what there coverage skills would be. I just took the fastest players on the list and out of the seven players only one came out with 10 for coverage skills. The rest of the players ranged from the mid 20's to the mid 70's for both zone and man coverage. So it is possible to move DE's to OLB and get a decent coverage skills from them.

                          Comment

                          • JimK
                            Rookie
                            • Feb 2011
                            • 60

                            #14
                            Re: The 3-4

                            Originally posted by shadowman
                            In a prior post someone stated that all DE's converted to OLB had coverage skills of 10, this is not true.I did some testing in my current franchise with signing DE's and then moving them to OLB to see what there coverage skills would be. I just took the fastest players on the list and out of the seven players only one came out with 10 for coverage skills. The rest of the players ranged from the mid 20's to the mid 70's for both zone and man coverage. So it is possible to move DE's to OLB and get a decent coverage skills from them.
                            Really? Maybe I'm missing a patch or something? Every single one that I have tried has had 10 man coverage and 10 zone coverage. Perhaps I need to conduct some more tests.

                            Then again, I'm starting to realize this doesn't even matter since size doesn't mean anything. After what I just read about oline skill not meaning anything and size not meaning anything for any player, I'm thinking I might as well just have my entire front seven be linebackers. And at that point the game is ruined for me.

                            Edit: Okay, took over the Colts (since they have undersized speed rushing DEs) and changed all their DEs to OLBs. Although all their coverage skills were terrible (ranging from 5-48) they were not 10. I think I know what the deal is, but I'm too tired and lazy to test it right now. In the past all the guys I converted were new draft picks. So my guess is that current players were all given coverage ratings, but by default when players are created for the draft, DEs are given 10 coverage skills. I will have to test it by doing a draft in which I draft a bunch of speed rushing DEs and convert them all to OLBs.
                            Last edited by JimK; 05-05-2011, 05:58 AM. Reason: Update

                            Comment

                            • JimK
                              Rookie
                              • Feb 2011
                              • 60

                              #15
                              Re: The 3-4

                              Okay, just ran the test and my suspicions were correct. All rookies drafted as DE have 10 max coverage.

                              I started a franchise and drafted DEs Harvey, Jackson, Campbell, and Smith. I then converted them all to OLB. All 4 have 10 man coverage and 10 zone coverage, with 10 as potentials in those categories as well.

                              Edit: Also, I found Eric Baker on another team, and his coverage skills are 10/10 as well. Are you sure about the 70? Because if what you're saying is correct I'm really curious about this discrepancy. I have the patch, so I'm not sure.
                              Last edited by JimK; 05-05-2011, 07:11 AM. Reason: Update

                              Comment

                              Working...