EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

[roadman]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

I'm not even really sure what you're talking about at this point...sorry.

You quoted me from a different poster that I quoted.

Sorry, not about to go into explanations, you'll need to back track if you want to know what we were discussing.

[EddieV]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

Pure speculation. It's just as likely that when 2k returned to a $49.99 price point for NFL 2k6, sales would have dipped back to the 300-500,000 unit level of NFL 2k2-2k4.

As you said, we'll never know.

If you honestly believe that NFL2k11 would've only sold 300-500,000 units, while M11 stayed at 5 million, who am I to say you're wrong.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

Tomato - tomata. His point still holds weight. Madden itself is profitable even with the exclusive license.



I know that the previous generation of Madden's offered a layer of depth that is still unmatched on the PS3/360. But beyond that, I'm still shocked at how much praise those games get.

I recall a few years ago that the biggest gripe with Madden was the line play. There was never a pocket -- just a wall of linemen doing the shuffle. This was a big-big-big issue, or at least it was portrayed to be in several forums. Now the line play is better than it has ever been in Madden IMO, yet there is a faction of folks who'll prefer to play the prev gen Madden with the abysmal line play.

Without straying too far off topic, I guess my point is that if realism is what people clamor for in Madden (and they do), how can people enjoy the previous Maddens so much? I think that the current Maddens from a gameplay standpoint are arguably more realistic than the previous gen editions. That doesn't mean today's game is more fun or more balanced -- just talking in terms of realism.

Not at all challenging you KJ, just making a point.

Take a look at Madden 10s line play. Guards stand in place and spin 360 on toss plays. There is no real pocket in that game either. There is also a catch, with improved line play comes the terrible pro-tak system that animates like a goofy group hug and then has scat backs break out of the animation by having difends slinde down and off like the rb is covered in vasoline. So you fixed your big-big problem of line play and traded it in for ridiculous tackling, and that makes ps2 version unplayable?

Ps2 has had great sideline catches for years, Madden 11 finally got it. Ps2 has a playbook editor, play creator, allows you to creat sub packages before the game, allows individual press coverage, has formation shifts, user controlled celebrations,in game saves, has more organic commentary, better running and tackling animations.

Madden 11's major feature to counter all this is gameflow and rewinds which allows for the cpu to pick plays and do overs if I feel cheated.

Now ps2 not only has deeper modes across the boards, it also has fantasy challenge/ tournament modes, historic rosters, madden challenges and madden cards that are missing from current gen all together. Finally, even with all that it's always been priced at $20 less.

Not trying to offend you, but claiming the improvements to line play outweigh all the positives I just posted and that ps2 madden fans play for nostalgia is just ridiculous to me.

[ryan36]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

well ryan, from 2006-2011, what do u think EA has done for its customer, even the 2K customers that lost there game in O6? Nothing really, because presentation hasn't gotten too 2K5 levels yet and Madden still can't compete with ALLPRO2k8 gameplay yet, so u tell me?

Ok based on this statement , I will say maybe EA doesn't listen.

We, the customers, don't have voices; we have wallets. Slowly but surely, those wallets closing.

Ok, I will accept this as true.

I could better answer your question if I knew, in what context, you are asking this question. Is this a direct response to a particular post?

See the two posts above...but no when I wrote that I was just being general, LT.

If EA doesn't care , why bitch? Just don't buy the game and be done with it. Most people offer criticism in the hope of a better product. If you assume EA doesn't listen you MUST also assume they aren't listening to you. It's a logical fallacy to do otherwise... and therefore a waste of time to come here.

"Exercise our power and don't buy the game." There's no need to for that though...if people don't like a game, or it's not as good people want, they won't buy it. My guess is it's already happening with people who don't like it... so what you're really saying is "people who like it still shouldn't buy it." It's like certain people are simply INCAPABLE of grasping that they're in the minority...and how little power they have. I don't think Madden is GOAT, but I would NEVER tell someone who likes a product not to buy it.

I just hate the rhetoric. EA doesn't listen, let's make a noise in the forest where nobody's around to hear.

[coogrfan]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

If you honestly believe that NFL2k11 would've only sold 300-500,000 units, while M11 stayed at 5 million, who am I to say you're wrong.

What I believe is this: the only time the NFL/APF 2k franchise sold over a million units in a given year was when it was priced at less than 20 dollars. We can debate the whys and wherefores of that ad naseum, but that doesn't make it any less true.

The assumption made by the majority of the 2k fans that in time TT/VC would have been able to maintain a steady increase in it's percentage of marketshare without a bargain price point is an act of pure faith: there is no way to prove or disprove such a statement.

[boom.h]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

Exactly. I agree with your point above. My point: It's still profitable. It's still an alright game, even after I was really enamored after patch 5, the Show will take it RIGHT out of my system, and maybe MLB2k11.

bottom line is it doesn't matter. EA will be making NFL football for years to come. What's 5 million times 60? 300 million dollars. I doubt anyone on the dev team makes more than 500k. The license is what? 76 mill? That's still mill of profit. If publishing costs , dev costs and shipping costs, etc. total $100 million dollars, there's still $123 million of profit.

You're actually wrong. EA doesn't make the full $60 on each copy. They make between $30-$40. You didn't factor in the retailer's piece, among other things.

[ryan36]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

You're actually wrong. EA doesn't make the full $60 on each copy. They make between $30-$40. You didn't factor in the retailer's piece, among other things.

Ok that's true. So 5 mil x $40= $200 mil - $76 mil lice= $124 mil. So does publishing and distribution and developing and marketing cost $124 mil? Because if it costs $.01 less than that , Madden is profitable

[kjcheezhead]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

I've wondered this myself many times. The only answers I can come up with is either people really care more about the extra modes than gameplay, or pure nostalgia.

As much as I critique Madden 11, I would say that it is probably the best Madden game ever, in terms of gameplay. How anyone can think that PS2 Madden is better, in terms of gameplay, is beyond me.

I don't know. Maybe I'm in the Twilight Zone or something, but as a savvy gamer who's seen a couple decades of gaming evolution, it's hard to look back, critically, and say that Madden was ever a great depiction of the game of Football. It's had the same issues since the very first Madden on consoles.

Having said that, almost none of the issues of the past iterations have been eliminated, but some of them have been at least lessened in subsequent years, so by default, the gameplay is better than it's ever been.

For what ever that's worth.

I disagree. Almost every problem the past games had is still there or worse. For example, both games have had defenders running routes before wr's. However, ps2 has individual press coverage and wr shading. So if I shade a wr to the inside and he runs an out route, he will get seperation. The current version I just have to pray the cpu plays good defense for me without any input.

So which game has better gameplay for pass defense? The one where the cpu makes all the decisions or the one where the gamer is allowed to have input on how his secondary plays?

[EddieV]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

The assumption made by the majority of the 2k fans that in time TT/VC would have been able to maintain a steady increase in it's percentage of marketshare without a bargain price point is an act of pure faith: there is no way to prove or disprove such a statement.

At least those fans have NBA2k and Live to go by as an example. Look what happened in that sport, where EA tried but was unable to get an exclusive. Today, their NBA game is off the market and they're pumping out NBA Jam which not many cared about. Meanwhile, NBA2k did gangbuster, Madden type sales numbers this year. Not saying it would have happened, but it very well could have with football, too, which is where 2k had a TON of momentum going (until the exclusive was signed).

[EddieV]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

Ok that's true. So 5 mil x $40= $200 mil - $76 mil lice= $124 mil. So does publishing and distribution and developing and marketing cost $124 mil? Because if it costs $.01 less than that , Madden is profitable

I posted this a few pages back, and it's still true. EA was basically giving Madden away this year to even get to 5 million:

"I don't think anywhere close to 5 million people paid $60 for M11. One million of those sales were on PSP/PS2/Wii, first of all. Secondly, there were all kinds of discounted pre-orders this year, and everybody was selling it at $29.99 pretty much from Thanksgiving until Christmas."

[boom.h]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

Ok that's true. So 5 mil x $40= $200 mil - $76 mil lice= $124 mil. So does publishing and distribution and developing and marketing cost $124 mil? Because if it costs $.01 less than that , Madden is profitable

What we do know is that 2/3 - 3/4 of Madden's Budget is spent on Marketing. With how slowly Madden has progressed over the years, there's something wrong with this picture, IMO.

http://www.bluesnews.com/s/101634/ea...-game_s-budget

[ryan36]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

Once a retailer buys inventory, it's the retailer's to price how they wish.

[RGiles36]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

Take a look at Madden 10s line play. Guards stand in place and spin 360 on toss plays. There is no real pocket in that game either. There is also a catch, with improved line play comes the terrible pro-tak system that animates like a goofy group hug and then has scat backs break out of the animation by having difends slinde down and off like the rb is covered in vasoline. So you fixed your big-big problem of line play and traded it in for ridiculous tackling, and that makes ps2 version unplayable?

Ps2 has had great sideline catches for years, Madden 11 finally got it. Ps2 has a playbook editor, play creator, allows you to creat sub packages before the game, allows individual press coverage, has formation shifts, user controlled celebrations,in game saves, has more organic commentary, better running and tackling animations.

Madden 11's major feature to counter all this is gameflow and rewinds which allows for the cpu to pick plays and do overs if I feel cheated.

Not trying to offend you, but claiming the improvements to line play outweigh all the positives I just posted and that ps2 madden fans play for nostalgia is just ridiculous to me.

No offense taken ...

Even w/ the shaky line play of M10, I'd still venture to say it was better than anything the PS2 Maddens produced. Fast forward to M11, the line play was vastly improved. The run-blocking, while it's not perfect, is the best that Madden has ever offered (best ever in a football game for my money). And in pass-blocking scenarios, the tackles actually get a little depth which allows the QB to actually step up in the pocket.

For what it's worth, the slippery-pig group tackle animation rarely happens in M11. I've personally have seen it no more than 5X. As far as PS2 sideline catching -- heh, I didn't think it was anything to write home about. Clearly just my opinion though. You think the tackling was better last generation?

My point remains the same: the gameplay now is better than it ever has been. The previous generation offers a level of depth that has been unmatched, and I acknowledged that in my previous post. But when it comes to gameplay, I'm not sure how one can go from what we have now to the PS2.

[mestevo]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

I posted this a few pages back, and it's still true. EA was basically giving Madden away this year to even get to 5 million:

"I don't think anywhere close to 5 million people paid $60 for M11. One million of those sales were on PSP/PS2/Wii, first of all. Secondly, there were all kinds of discounted pre-orders this year, and everybody was selling it at $29.99 pretty much from Thanksgiving until Christmas."

Some of these kinds of things can be tracked btw.

http://camelcamelcamel.com/Madden-NF...uct/B002I0JB6E

Was never $30 on Amazon, any time it was close to that low it was a sale, and those are retailer specific, just like the initial sales on launch that people tried to say were EA reducing the price because of poor pre-orders (there was an official OS blog about this). When a publisher reduces the price you can see it done uniformly everywhere.

EA hasn't ever lowered the price of Madden to $30, retailers did, there's a difference.

[EddieV]

Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

Once a retailer buys inventory, it's the retailer's to price how they wish.

I don't think that's true -- that's why you hear these guys talk about "sell-in" numbers, which only means shipped to retailers. Look at EA's most recent financials, where they talk about maintaining a HUGE reserve for EA Active 2 due to its underperforming sales. If it was true that a retailer could price how they wish, there wouldn't be any need for EA to account for reserves (i.e., unsold units).