EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

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  • Only1LT
    MVP
    • Jul 2009
    • 3010

    #481
    Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

    Originally posted by rgiles36
    No offense taken ...

    Even w/ the shaky line play of M10, I'd still venture to say it was better than anything the PS2 Maddens produced. Fast forward to M11, the line play was vastly improved. The run-blocking, while it's not perfect, is the best that Madden has ever offered (best ever in a football game for my money). And in pass-blocking scenarios, the tackles actually get a little depth which allows the QB to actually step up in the pocket.

    For what it's worth, the slippery-pig group tackle animation rarely happens in M11. I've personally have seen it no more than 5X. As far as PS2 sideline catching -- heh, I didn't think it was anything to write home about. Clearly just my opinion though. You think the tackling was better last generation?

    My point remains the same: the gameplay now is better than it ever has been. The previous generation offers a level of depth that has been unmatched, and I acknowledged that in my previous post. But when it comes to gameplay, I'm not sure how one can go from what we have now to the PS2.

    Not to turn this into one of those threads lol, but I can't see how you can make this statement.

    Forget for a moment that the new run blocking logic only works at the LOS (if that) and then after that it is basically as it has always been, but the main problem with the line, that makes it much worse than an unmentioned game, is how the trench battles play out.

    Line interactions in Madden come down to one thing. The players engage, come to a stand still, and there is absolutely no visual representation of who is winning until the defender does his escape animation and negates the block. There is no flow. There is no riding defenders. No way to read a block. You approach a blocked defender, but you really have no idea if he will be blocked by the time you reach him (probably won't be) or to what side you should try to pass him because you have no idea what way he will shed the block. It's a guessing game. Setting up blocks is nonexistent because regardless of what side you bait the defender to go, he could easily disengage to either side, regardless of his position.

    Blocking in Madden is atrociously handled and always will be as long as they have this one on one OL/DL lineman engagement, that has no movement until the shed animation gets dialed up, and the defender comes completely free. They can make all the blockers block who they are supposed on every single play, and it will not make blocking any less poor, as long as this is the case.
    Last edited by Only1LT; 02-17-2011, 01:42 PM.
    "You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling."

    Comment

    • RGiles36
      MVP
      • Jan 2008
      • 3962

      #482
      Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

      Originally posted by Only1LT
      Blocking in Madden is atrociously handled and always will be as long as they have this one on one OL/DL lineman engagement, that has no movement until the shed animation gets dialed up, and the defender comes completely free. They can make all the blockers block who they are supposed on every single play, and it will not make blocking any less poor, as long as this is the case.
      I won't go into deep detail about it -- the trenches is not my specialty. But of the games I compare it to and from my experience, I enjoy running the ball more in M11 than any other football game. I think to an extent you can read the blocks. That, and I feel that real holes are opened up to run through. In a competing game released in 2004, running the ball was a hat trick. If a holes opened up in a realistic manner, it was sort of a luck of the draw (although coincidently the draw play hardly worked in that game). In another competing game released in 2007 (I believe), I think the running game was good. I have nothing bad to say about it b/c although I own it, I haven't played it as much.

      But again, for my money, running the ball in M11 offers the best experience .

      **Now do I think the line interaction as a whole is better than the previous competition's? No, and that's not what I tried to imply.
      Twitter

      Comment

      • Only1LT
        MVP
        • Jul 2009
        • 3010

        #483
        Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

        Originally posted by rgiles36
        I won't go into deep detail about it -- the trenches is not my specialty. But of the games I compare it to and from my experience, I enjoy running the ball more in M11 than any other football game. I think to an extent you can read the blocks. That, and I feel that real holes are opened up to run through. In a competing game released in 2004, running the ball was a hat trick. If a holes opened up in a realistic manner, it was sort of a luck of the draw (although coincidently the draw play hardly worked in that game). In another competing game released in 2007 (I believe), I think the running game was good. I have nothing bad to say about it b/c although I own it, I haven't played it as much.

        But again, for my money, running the ball in M11 offers the best experience .

        **Now do I think the line interaction as a whole is better than the previous competition's? No, and that's not what I tried to imply.

        If your point was that you find it more fun to run on Madden 11 than any other game, then that is a point that I will not, and should not, argue.

        Thanks for the clarification.
        "You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling."

        Comment

        • kjcheezhead
          MVP
          • May 2009
          • 3118

          #484
          Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

          Originally posted by rgiles36
          No offense taken ...

          Even w/ the shaky line play of M10, I'd still venture to say it was better than anything the PS2 Maddens produced. Fast forward to M11, the line play was vastly improved. The run-blocking, while it's not perfect, is the best that Madden has ever offered (best ever in a football game for my money). And in pass-blocking scenarios, the tackles actually get a little depth which allows the QB to actually step up in the pocket.

          For what it's worth, the slippery-pig group tackle animation rarely happens in M11. I've personally have seen it no more than 5X. As far as PS2 sideline catching -- heh, I didn't think it was anything to write home about. Clearly just my opinion though. You think the tackling was better last generation?

          My point remains the same: the gameplay now is better than it ever has been. The previous generation offers a level of depth that has been unmatched, and I acknowledged that in my previous post. But when it comes to gameplay, I'm not sure how one can go from what we have now to the PS2.
          I do actually. Not leaps and bounds better tho, just slightly. I hate pro-tak animations period. I think they look ridulous and tackles play out poorly overall. While the old system is nothing to write home about, it seems to handle solo and 2 man tackles better and looks better in motion overall.

          With all else being equal or near equal, I'll take the ability to shade wrs, individual press coverage and lead blocking control of the ps2 over current maddens system. So for me, gameplay is a wash or maybe slightly skewed in favor of ps2.

          For me, gameplay I'd give ps2 about an 8.5 and current gen about an 8. But overall depth, features and fun factor I give ps2 madden a 10 and current madden about a 5. Ps2 kills it in that regard and it's not even close to me.

          Comment

          • mr_president
            MVP
            • Oct 2002
            • 1167

            #485
            Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

            Originally posted by rgiles36
            I won't go into deep detail about it -- the trenches is not my specialty. But of the games I compare it to and from my experience, I enjoy running the ball more in M11 than any other football game. I think to an extent you can read the blocks. That, and I feel that real holes are opened up to run through. In a competing game released in 2004, running the ball was a hat trick. If a holes opened up in a realistic manner, it was sort of a luck of the draw (although coincidently the draw play hardly worked in that game). In another competing game released in 2007 (I believe), I think the running game was good. I have nothing bad to say about it b/c although I own it, I haven't played it as much.

            But again, for my money, running the ball in M11 offers the best experience .

            **Now do I think the line interaction as a whole is better than the previous competition's? No, and that's not what I tried to imply.
            i will contend that running the ball in madden can be fun, but for me it does not offer the best experience. the suction,teleporting and line interaction seems to always find a way ruin it for me.

            there are other games that have done it much better,ncaa 11 to name one and another was released back in 07.

            Comment

            • LiquorLogic
              Banned
              • Aug 2010
              • 712

              #486
              Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

              Originally posted by mestevo
              Some of these kinds of things can be tracked btw.
              EA hasn't ever lowered the price of Madden to $30, retailers did, there's a difference.
              It doesn't matter. If a retailer makes less on the game, either their shipments will have to decrease or EA's price for the shipment will have to decrease.

              Comment

              • ryan36
                7 dirty words...
                • Feb 2003
                • 10139

                #487
                Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

                Originally posted by LiquorLogic
                It doesn't matter. If a retailer makes less on the game, either their shipments will have to decrease or EA's price for the shipment will have to decrease.
                Actually the cheaper it is , demand goes up. Profits go down in margin, but more units ship at a cheaper price.

                Comment

                • LiquorLogic
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 712

                  #488
                  Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

                  Originally posted by ryan36
                  Actually the cheaper it is , demand goes up. Profits go down in margin, but more units ship at a cheaper price.
                  You're acting as if a retailer is going to have no reaction, what so ever, to decreasing profit margins.

                  If a retailer orders 10,000 units and only sells 7,500 in the time frame that they wanted, how many units do you think the retailer will order the next time around ?

                  If the demand decreases for the buyer, it also decreases for the seller. If a retailer sees the demand decrease, first they'll decrease the price, then they'll decrease their shipments. When the publisher (EA) sees this, they'll lower the price of their shipments, or ship less units. Either way, they make less money.

                  One hand washes the other.

                  Comment

                  • falconfansince81
                    Rookie
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 333

                    #489
                    Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

                    pasta padre's in sight on the matter, decent read with a couple new perspectives:

                    No matter where the most blame is placed by gamers when it comes to the NFL exclusive license, whether that be the league or EA Sports or an equal share, the extension of a year to the current contract and the manner it was negotiated could be telling. Based on each side's actions it appears

                    Comment

                    • mestevo
                      Gooney Goo Goo
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 19556

                      #490
                      Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

                      Originally posted by LiquorLogic
                      You're acting as if a retailer is going to have no reaction, what so ever, to decreasing profit margins.

                      If a retailer orders 10,000 units and only sells 7,500 in the time frame that they wanted, how many units do you think the retailer will order the next time around ?

                      If the demand decreases for the buyer, it also decreases for the seller. If a retailer sees the demand decrease, first they'll decrease the price, then they'll decrease their shipments. When the publisher (EA) sees this, they'll lower the price of their shipments, or ship less units. Either way, they make less money.

                      One hand washes the other.
                      Except that none of that has anything to do with the pricing for Madden 11. Prices were decreased for marketing purposes by retailers, not by EA. If EA reduced the price, it would have seen a reduction uniformly across all channels (and MSRP wouldn't be $59.99 still).

                      Here's what it looks like when a publisher drops the price:

                      http://camelcamelcamel.com/Backbreak...uct/B002WSR8CQ

                      Here's what it looks like when a popular title is placed on sale:

                      http://camelcamelcamel.com/Madden-NF...uct/B002I0J4FW

                      (click all for the range when those pages load btw)

                      As you can see, sale happens, game returns to MSRP, or Amazon's general discount off MSRP for most titles. You can clearly see that Madden still has a $60 price, while Backbreaker dropped in $10 increments to the $20 it is today. Meanwhile Madden had sales during the holidays, and has returned to its discounted MSRP of $~55.

                      Comment

                      • CaptainZombie
                        Brains
                        • Jul 2003
                        • 37851

                        #491
                        Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

                        Originally posted by mestevo
                        Except that none of that has anything to do with the pricing for Madden 11. Prices were decreased for marketing purposes by retailers, not by EA. If EA reduced the price, it would have seen a reduction uniformly across all channels (and MSRP wouldn't be $59.99 still).

                        Here's what it looks like when a publisher drops the price:

                        http://camelcamelcamel.com/Backbreak...uct/B002WSR8CQ

                        Here's what it looks like when a popular title is placed on sale:

                        http://camelcamelcamel.com/Madden-NF...uct/B002I0J4FW

                        (click all for the range when those pages load btw)

                        As you can see, sale happens, game returns to MSRP, or Amazon's general discount off MSRP for most titles. You can clearly see that Madden still has a $60 price, while Backbreaker dropped in $10 increments to the $20 it is today. Meanwhile Madden had sales during the holidays, and has returned to its discounted MSRP of $~55.
                        The one thing I do not understand is that now both NCAA and NFL seasons are over, and both games are still retailing for $59 unless found on sale. You would think that once the season is over, they would drop the prices a little bit on these for those that might want to bite with still having Superbowl or Bowl game(s) fever and they can make a few more sales.
                        HDMovie Room

                        Comment

                        • EddieV
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 66

                          #492
                          Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

                          Regardless of how much profit EA makes per copy sold, let's look at the sales numbers to date (per vgchartz -- which was just updated today):

                          M10 (across all platforms): 7.36 million

                          VGChartz - extensive game chart coverage, including sales data, news, reviews, forums, & game database for PS5, Xbox Series, Nintendo Switch & PC


                          M11 (across all platforms): 5.36 million

                          VGChartz - extensive game chart coverage, including sales data, news, reviews, forums, & game database for PS5, Xbox Series, Nintendo Switch & PC


                          Looks like EA is actually lucky that there is the threat of a lockout -- I'd be looking for concessions from the NFL, too, if my numbers declined that much in a non-lockout year.
                          Last edited by EddieV; 02-17-2011, 05:08 PM.

                          Comment

                          • roadman
                            *ll St*r
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 26339

                            #493
                            Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

                            Originally posted by EddieV
                            Regardless of how much profit EA makes per copy sold, let's look at the sales numbers to date (per vgchartz -- which was just updated today):

                            M10 (across all platforms): 7.36 million

                            VGChartz - extensive game chart coverage, including sales data, news, reviews, forums, & game database for PS5, Xbox Series, Nintendo Switch & PC


                            M11 (across all platforms): 5.36 million

                            VGChartz - extensive game chart coverage, including sales data, news, reviews, forums, & game database for PS5, Xbox Series, Nintendo Switch & PC


                            Looks like EA is actually lucky that there is the threat of a lockout -- I'd be looking for concessions from the NFL, too, if my numbers declined that much in a non-lockout year.
                            I doubt that includes the sales of MUT, Facebook and other DLC.

                            Comment

                            • LiquorLogic
                              Banned
                              • Aug 2010
                              • 712

                              #494
                              Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

                              Originally posted by EddieV
                              Regardless of how much profit EA makes per copy sold, let's look at the sales numbers to date (per vgchartz -- which was just updated today):

                              M10 (across all platforms): 7.36 million

                              VGChartz - extensive game chart coverage, including sales data, news, reviews, forums, & game database for PS5, Xbox Series, Nintendo Switch & PC


                              M11 (across all platforms): 5.36 million

                              VGChartz - extensive game chart coverage, including sales data, news, reviews, forums, & game database for PS5, Xbox Series, Nintendo Switch & PC


                              Looks like EA is actually lucky that there is the threat of a lockout -- I'd be looking for concessions from the NFL, too, if my numbers declined that much in a non-lockout year.
                              Ouch ! Unless my math is wrong, which is a distinct possibility, I hated math growing up, sales for Madden 11 are down a whopping 27%.

                              Looking at these numbers, Pasta's article, and considering the hefty price tag of the license, EA may not want to extend the deal when it expires. Pasta's article made it sound like EA only agreed to the extra year because that's the only way the NFL would give them some relief this year.

                              Comment

                              • mestevo
                                Gooney Goo Goo
                                • Apr 2010
                                • 19556

                                #495
                                Re: EA/NFL Extend NFL Exclusive License by One Year to 2013

                                Originally posted by roadman
                                I doubt that includes the sales of MUT, Facebook and other DLC.
                                This, and we're only 27 weeks into Madden 11s release, the 360 has outsold it's Madden 10 counterpart at 27 weeks by over 100k units, if I had the time I'd look at what each platform sold on Madden 10 from week 27 onward vs the differential. That combined with the PS2 falloff not being picked up by other consoles and the cap is much closer than those 2 numbers suggest.

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