OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

**gigadkc** · 02-26-2011, 12:33 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Originally posted by tvman

Play PYS and you'll soon see that their cursor hitting system is far and away the best hitting system out there.

Sticks are different and new but that doesn't make them better.

so true. I also understand people that don't like cursor hitting because they it's too hard, "unreal" or because they just prefer another style of hitting. I love cursor batting, tvman loves it, other people love it, why not add it to the game? It won't make the game worse to have another hitting option and some people that hate it might actually like it.

I don't know how many guys here have played or still play PYS but hitting in that game is just awesome. Give it a try and you know what I mean.

**Dazraz** · 02-26-2011, 12:40 PM

I think the main gripe with The Show 11 isn't that it plays the same as it's predecessor, Sony would be crazy to meddle with the awesome gameplay, it's that it looks & sounds the same. A new voice in the box has done nothing to refresh the presentation. As we found with Madden, putting a new voice in the box is not enough. The Show's commentary needs a complete overhaul to bring it up to date. It also needs to be dynamic keeping up with news highlights throughout the season. Why is it when a pitcher gets introduced in a playoff game the commentary is still focusing on what he achieved in his last real life season & not what he had done in the season just played.
I would also like more variety & better presentation with regards to stat overlays. Elements such as these can really give the game a fresh feel without making changes for changes sake within the actual gameplay.

**wrigleyville33** · 02-26-2011, 01:04 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

I'm with the first guy. I am still underwhelmed with the demo. I hate people that are on here warming up to the devs claiming this is the best game they have ever played. Then 8 other users also throw their comments claiming it's the best. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I hate that saying. You guys have been saying that since mlb '09. We are on our third year of saying that. If you don't like a game, go to the previous one. Also, if someone criticizes the game, all of the users who glorify this game gangs up against him shooting him down. The commentary is still horrible, the foul ball camera is so stale, the game overall just plays out stale as well. I'm really not sure if I'll dish out 60 to buy this game. That is saying something considering I bought my ps3 for this game. Users should criticize this game, because criticism ignites improvement. The presentation has been the same, still no highlight tv like show. Matty V bores me to sleep. The equipment received no upgrades. Still the same. I played over 200 games of mlb '09. I played probably 100 in '10. Is it worth it to pay another 60 and probably play less games due to me getting bored of the gameplay? They need to spice it up. They need to suck it up and purchase rights to equipment brands. Overall the menu system. I swear the graphic designer who designed the menus, overlays, etc needs to get a face lift. They changed the colors, yipee, I want an overhaul. Why not make different overlays to keep the game fresh? Different overlays meaning maybe have a local market tv overlay and a nationally televised production. I feel nothing when I hit a home run. Why is that? I swear the presentation is what is keeping this game down. I could fall asleep when I listen to Matt V. Wrigley looks the same for the third consecutive year. It looks awful. Anyways, I will probably buy this year's version if the price is right.

**nemesis04** · 02-26-2011, 01:33 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Originally posted by wrigleyville33

I'm with the first guy. I am still underwhelmed with the demo. I hate people that are on here warming up to the devs claiming this is the best game they have ever played. Then 8 other users also throw their comments claiming it's the best. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I hate that saying. You guys have been saying that since mlb '09. We are on our third year of saying that. If you don't like a game, go to the previous one. Also, if someone criticizes the game, all of the users who glorify this game gangs up against him shooting him down. The commentary is still horrible, the foul ball camera is so stale, the game overall just plays out stale as well. I'm really not sure if I'll dish out 60 to buy this game. That is saying something considering I bought my ps3 for this game. Users should criticize this game, because criticism ignites improvement. The presentation has been the same, still no highlight tv like show. Matty V bores me to sleep. The equipment received no upgrades. Still the same. I played over 200 games of mlb '09. I played probably 100 in '10. Is it worth it to pay another 60 and probably play less games due to me getting bored of the gameplay? They need to spice it up. They need to suck it up and purchase rights to equipment brands. Overall the menu system. I swear the graphic designer who designed the menus, overlays, etc needs to get a face lift. They changed the colors, yipee, I want an overhaul. Why not make different overlays to keep the game fresh? Different overlays meaning maybe have a local market tv overlay and a nationally televised production. I feel nothing when I hit a home run. Why is that? I swear the presentation is what is keeping this game down. I could fall asleep when I listen to Matt V. Wrigley looks the same for the third consecutive year. It looks awful. Anyways, I will probably buy this year's version if the price is right.

You lost me at the end here. To feel so strongly that game has not progressed and has a stale feel to it, you end it off by saying "I will end up getting at some point"? If you are going to run and jump in the pool don't stop at the edge! Buy it, don't buy whatever, does not affect me either way but if you feel so strongly against something the right way to go about it is to pass on it. Why support something you don't really enjoy?

**PVarck31** · 02-26-2011, 01:34 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Originally posted by wrigleyville33

I'm with the first guy. I am still underwhelmed with the demo. I hate people that are on here warming up to the devs claiming this is the best game they have ever played. Then 8 other users also throw their comments claiming it's the best. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I hate that saying. You guys have been saying that since mlb '09. We are on our third year of saying that. If you don't like a game, go to the previous one. Also, if someone criticizes the game, all of the users who glorify this game gangs up against him shooting him down. The commentary is still horrible, the foul ball camera is so stale, the game overall just plays out stale as well. I'm really not sure if I'll dish out 60 to buy this game. That is saying something considering I bought my ps3 for this game. Users should criticize this game, because criticism ignites improvement. The presentation has been the same, still no highlight tv like show. Matty V bores me to sleep. The equipment received no upgrades. Still the same. I played over 200 games of mlb '09. I played probably 100 in '10. Is it worth it to pay another 60 and probably play less games due to me getting bored of the gameplay? They need to spice it up. They need to suck it up and purchase rights to equipment brands. Overall the menu system. I swear the graphic designer who designed the menus, overlays, etc needs to get a face lift. They changed the colors, yipee, I want an overhaul. Why not make different overlays to keep the game fresh? Different overlays meaning maybe have a local market tv overlay and a nationally televised production. I feel nothing when I hit a home run. Why is that? I swear the presentation is what is keeping this game down. I could fall asleep when I listen to Matt V. Wrigley looks the same for the third consecutive year. It looks awful. Anyways, I will probably buy this year's version if the price is right.

So because I think its the best baseball game I have ever played that means I am "warming up the the devs." Blanket statements like that bring nothing but trouble.

Look, I get why people want the presentation changed up a little. I think that would be great. However it doesn't ruin my experience with the game. Don't mistake my love for the game as complacency. I am all for any improvements or enhancements that are made. I would love licensed gear, new commentary, and more animations.

I know the devs read this forum and take the wishlist thread seriously. You are free to criticize the game all you want. As long as its constructive criticism and there will be no beef from me or any of the other mods.

**metallidevils** · 02-26-2011, 02:19 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Originally posted by Pared

Quite honestly, you don't understand the sports video game business model then.

Why would you completely ignore your loyal customers and try and capture new ones, at the risk of alienating those that actually ENJOY the way the game is?

You made this same claim in the Madden forum a while back. I remember because it was off the mark then as well.

You simply don't ignore the individuals that buy your game every year - you cater to them and add items to capture the external market as well.

SCEA did that this year with the inclusion of Co-op, the PSMove, etc. You won't see this on the demo, but there's a lot in the game to make it more accessible to just the "hardcore" market.

They also spent a ridiculous amount of time catering to individual fans on their specific nitpicks, such as ad placement and wall colors in stadiums.

I hate the "me too" posts that follow someone's tirade. Mob mentality at its finest here. Instead of taking a step back and objectively viewing what has been done this year, they focus on that one thing that they wanted and whether it met their expectations.

People did this same thing in the NBA 2k11 forum despite that game being the best it has ever been.

Simply put... unbelievable.

I don't know for a fact, but I do not believe that this message board represents the fan base as a whole for this game. This might be the most 'loyal' fan base, but there aren't enough people who regularly post here to make it the biggest. Catering to the people here, if that is what they are doing, is probably a bad business model. Sooner or later sites like IGN that presumably have more of an influence on which games become popular, are going to catch on that not much is happening from year to year, and the reviews are going to get poorer.

At some point just being the best baseball game cannot be enough.

**ripwalk** · 02-26-2011, 02:32 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Originally posted by gigadkc

so true. I also understand people that don't like cursor hitting because they it's too hard, "unreal" or because they just prefer another style of hitting. I love cursor batting, tvman loves it, other people love it, why not add it to the game? It won't make the game worse to have another hitting option and some people that hate it might actually like it.

I don't know how many guys here have played or still play PYS but hitting in that game is just awesome. Give it a try and you know what I mean.

Can you explain what cursor hitting is exactly and how it differs from the options in the Show?

**Pared** · 02-26-2011, 03:13 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Originally posted by tvman

Play PYS and you'll soon see that their cursor hitting system is far and away the best hitting system out there.

Sticks are different and new but that doesn't make them better.

There is nothing to see; I don't think it deserves the praise it gets. Other models have done similar things.

People are actually in love with other things that don't have to do with batting interface IMHO, such as the ball physics if you really analyzed the entire system.

Originally posted by metallidevils

I don't know for a fact, but I do not believe that this message board represents the fan base as a whole for this game. This might be the most 'loyal' fan base, but there aren't enough people who regularly post here to make it the biggest. Catering to the people here, if that is what they are doing, is probably a bad business model. Sooner or later sites like IGN that presumably have more of an influence on which games become popular, are going to catch on that not much is happening from year to year, and the reviews are going to get poorer.

At some point just being the best baseball game cannot be enough.

The thing that you don't seem to grasp is they are catering to EVERY group. I've given concrete examples of this. Those that simply are not happy that they don't have "X" feature or gameplay mechanic included are the only one making this false claim. MVP fans did the same thing about analog controls for years. Is it the cursor hitting fans' turn?

You don't have to make such drastic examples to get your point across on this forum. I've said it time and time again - these are games emulating a REAL LIFE SPORT. The reference material has not changed for years. At some point, these games will "seemingly" follow suit. And that's not a slight; You can't reinvent a sport in video game form. At that point, you're no longer making a professional sport video game, you are making a video game influenced take on a sport. There's a very concrete difference.

**tvman** · 02-26-2011, 03:22 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Yes it's the ball physics people love in PYS but those are due in large part to the cursor hitting system that is used.

**Pared** · 02-26-2011, 03:29 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

It all ties in but you can get those same physics in any game. I'm downplaying the difficulty of it, but simply saying "the cursor hitting" doesn't really matter. If PYS were to include a form of cursor-less hitting, you'd have the same ball physics as well.

So again, the hitting mechanic/interface isn't the real bread and butter and I really think people fail to see this. The results of "contact" is what "feels" so great and even if The Show were to copy the mechanic 100%, it wouldn't be the same. So asking for it doesn't make sense.

If you want different physics, that's an entirely different story. I will say that I spent a good deal of time with them about ball physics and if you're really a true fan of the game, you'd see things in this and last year's game that were never possible before, such as the high choppers and balls spraying and curving in the corners on shots down the line.

**tvman** · 02-26-2011, 04:07 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Pys does have a timing only option but using that just ruins all the hit variety in the game.

**nomo17k** · 02-26-2011, 06:47 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

I don't know the sports video gaming industry well enough to even guess, but if SCEA's business here is heavily dependent on the repeat customers you see in a place like this forum, I must say they have a really tough audience to satisfy!

The comment by Chase: "If someone picked this game up today having not played a baseball game in a couple years, he or she would absolutely freak out."

It describes exactly how I was when I went out and got MLB 10 after casually playing its demo really just to kill time a couple months ago. I was sure impressed by the visual aspect in the demo, but not so much by how the game played even then; I never have been by any other video baseball games anyway. But once I got a real copy and tried different play options (like RTTS), I couldn't believe how immersive the game really could be. To me this was really the first video game that feels as if you are actually out in the field, and not playing a video baseball game.

Now, was I impressed by the MLB 11 demo? No. Disappointed? No. Looking at the new things SCEA has added, it was obvious things won't be *that* much different from MLB 10. As a repeat customer who has already preordered MLB 11, it was good enough that I could try new analog controls, see some new animations, a little improvements here and there. I'm sure the demo is still great enough to entice new customers though, like myself a couple months ago. It's actually unfortunate the demo doesn't let people experience the other parts of the Show like franchise and RTTS that as a whole makes the actual game play so much more immersive.

If SCEA is releasing these demos in hope of enticing repeat customers, it must be a tough fight already since they've raised their own bar too high, like many in this forum are saying. Visual is already too good as is, there are only so many buttons, pad, and sticks, though with Move you might expect some drastic change...

Personally I hope SCEA keeps solidifying the foundations which are already good but have rooms to grow. I think the pitcher vs batter AI is fantastic as is, but in the franchise/manager mode CPU makes many very questionable moves. Stats don't seem to be as important part of the game, something like rosters/players/stats could be more flexibly edited, etc. The Show may be hitting the ceiling in game play, but in those directions there still *are* a lot of rooms to grow (at least for someone like me who also likes text-based baseball sims).

However it really depends on who actually keeps buying the game in the end. After all SCEA needs to make money to keep the game as good as it is and to improve further. Hope they can cash in on the niche I'm in as well.

**etched Chaos** · 02-26-2011, 07:22 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Y'know what I find a bit annoying is the idea that introducing big features year by year is a bad thing. Its a problem if the game in question has issues that need fixing but when you have such a good foundation like the Show, having a new marquee feature in a follow-up game would be a very good thing. We already know the game plays well, we already know its a realistic rendition of baseball but we also have something else on top to increase our enjoyment.

After all its a game for everybody not just players who purely want it to simulate a game of baseball incredibly well and find other features as gimmicks. Its also for guys like me who spend months playing RTTS, and never step foot in Franchise or single season. Or for the guys who want some short fun in HR Derby before playing a few games before trying out everything else.

Why should we feel bad because we're not bowled over by a few extra lines in commentary or lighting changes, or the small refinements. I'm not overawed by the demo because it doesn't represent why I play the Show. It has no RTTS elements, it doesn't let me play the mode I'll be playing for months when the retail is released. If the Show had no RTTS, then I'd not be playing it, I'm a career mode junkie and its features like that which are also important.

**Giants4Natic** · 02-26-2011, 11:21 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

The game is still very good but the fielding is still a sore spot at least with me.

The canned animations are to heavy involed in this game. I hate animations taking over way to early which takes my enjoyment from the experience.

Once again I saw a ball hit to the gap where my fielder was going after it by me controlling him and then all of a sudden going into this quick sand animation where I lose control and he goes into slow motion brace against the way and then does a the hop step before throwing back in. This leads to baserunners getting more then the base they should.

Frustrating as hell. Still has not been fixed and I do not think giving us analog fielding is a way to cover up the bad fielding gameplay.

That is my only gripe with the game and I feel is a big enough gripe because is a very key element in baseball.

Also real time presentation from what I see is not been touched at all.

I like to use it because I hate scripted cuts and I am loving the batter walking up to the plate in real time only to get a cutscene right after that of him walking to the plate.

Huh? How is that real time

**Giants4Natic** · 02-26-2011, 11:29 PM

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

I do like the fact that in real time presentation the hr trot is no longer scripted with holding the helmet issue

OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

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