MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

[Dog]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

That list shows exactly why this WAR "stat" is stupid. It only values how good you are based on who would replace you if you went down. It does nothing to show actual value to the overall game. Wandy Rodriguez has a higher WAR than Chris Carpenter. going by this "stat" would mean that Wandy would be more sought after than Carpenter if both were on the market.

So what is your defense of the WHIP leaders then?

[jd369]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

Um, what? You do realise that last year Hamels was 7th for WAR for pitchers, not to mention he was top ten for alot of his peripherals. If he was a Brave (thank god he isn't) he'd be your defacto ace and you'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

see my above post about WAR, its a useless "stat". Tim hudson is the braves ace, he would be even if hamels was a brave, which I also thank god he is not. hudson last year was more comparable to halladay than he was hamels, the only thing he lacks is he is not a high strikeout pitcher.

[smearz]

That list shows exactly why this WAR "stat" is stupid. It only values how good you are based on who would replace you if you went down. It does nothing to show actual value to the overall game. Wandy Rodriguez has a higher WAR than Chris Carpenter. going by this "stat" would mean that Wandy would be more sought after than Carpenter if both were on the market.

JD, you seem like a bitter Braves fan. What happened last year when the Braves came into Philly with a chance to close the gap and try to take back first place? And in the first game of the series, what happened against Cole Hamels? How 'bout 1 run on 6 hits in 8 innings. And Hamels won his 5th straight start, all while allowing 1 run or fewer and going at least 6 innings in those 5 starts. That doesn't sound slightly above average to me.

[etched Chaos]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

see my above post about WAR, its a useless "stat". Tim hudson is the braves ace, he would be even if hamels was a brave, which I also thank god he is not. hudson last year was more comparable to halladay than he was hamels, the only thing he lacks is he is not a high strikeout pitcher.

Useless how? Its useless because it doesn't skew to your opinion? WAR is a great way to outline the complete contrbution of a player to a team, it doesn't tell a false story likes wins which rely on variables the pitcher cannot control or has no bearing on (run support is the main example).

[Dog]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

see my above post about WAR, its a useless "stat". Tim hudson is the braves ace, he would be even if hamels was a brave, which I also thank god he is not. hudson last year was more comparable to halladay than he was hamels, the only thing he lacks is he is not a high strikeout pitcher.

So let's use WHIP -





Whoa, looks like Hamels has a lower WHIP than Hudson every year



..And a lower opposing AVG




..And a much higher K/9 IP



Pretty comparable ERA, though..

[etched Chaos]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

So let's use WHIP -





Whoa, looks like Hamels has a lower WHIP than Hudson every year



..And a lower opposing AVG




..And a much higher K/9 IP



Pretty comparable ERA, though..

Cole also has a far superior K:BB ratio.

[Dog]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

Cole also has a far superior K:BB ratio.

Indeed

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

So let's use WHIP -





Whoa, looks like Hamels has a lower WHIP than Hudson every year



..And a lower opposing AVG




..And a much higher K/9 IP



Pretty comparable ERA, though..

Those graphs are showing me that Cole Hamels was higher in both WHIP and opposing batting average last year.

[jd369]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

So what is your defense of the WHIP leaders then?

There is no defense, you cant use just one stat to prove how good a player is. You stopped counting at 14 in a braves vs. phillies comparison so you could leave out the 15th and 18th pitcher, both braves. Halladay and Lee along with a couple others are in their own world, we cant even compare regluar players to them they are just too good. Regardless WHIP alone will not win any argument on who is an ace and who is not.

[Dog]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

Those graphs are showing me that Cole Hamels was higher in both WHIP and opposing batting average last year.

One year out of how many?

There is no defense, you cant use just one stat to prove how good a player is. You stopped counting at 14 in a braves vs. phillies comparison so you could leave out the 15th and 18th pitcher, both braves. Halladay and Lee along with a couple others are in their own world, we cant even compare regluar players to them they are just too good. Regardless WHIP alone will not win any argument on who is an ace and who is not.

I wasn't comparing Phillies to Braves, I was stating that 4 pitchers in the top 14 pretty much means those are 4 pretty damn good pitchers. And as for your ace vs not ace, see my above posts and re-think your stance on Hamels vs Hudson

[jd369]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

JD, you seem like a bitter Braves fan. What happened last year when the Braves came into Philly with a chance to close the gap and try to take back first place? And in the first game of the series, what happened against Cole Hamels? How 'bout 1 run on 6 hits in 8 innings. And Hamels won his 5th straight start, all while allowing 1 run or fewer and going at least 6 innings in those 5 starts. That doesn't sound slightly above average to me.

The braves choked that's what happened lol. There is nothing for me to be bitter about, we still made the playoffs, still had a great season. I wont even blame injuries, which is what the phils fans to do justify them not having a 15 game lead in the division at the end of the season. The braves were already playing for the wild card at that point, there is no other way to justify throwing 2 rookies against hamels and halladay in that series.

[Dog]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

And for the record, I'm not a Braves ***** by any means. I have them ranked #4 overall, right behind the Phillies

[jd369]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

I can cherry pick stats to make the person I like better as well, it dont mean a thing.

Hudson beats Hamels in HR/9, AVG, BABIP, LOB %, and ERA. I should really compare Hanson to Hamels, but I dont have time right now. Hudson is better than Hamels hands down. You have to look at ALL stats to prove what you have to say not just the ones your player is better in.

[Dog]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

I can cherry pick stats to make the person I like better as well, it dont mean a thing.

Hudson beats Hamels in HR/9, AVG, BABIP, LOB %, and ERA. I should really compare Hanson to Hamels, but I dont have time right now. Hudson is better than Hamels hands down. You have to look at ALL stats to prove what you have to say not just the ones your player is better in.

Okay

ERA: Push



K/9: Hamels



BB/9: Hamels



K/BB: Hamels



HR/9: Hudson



AVG: Hamels



WHIP: Hamels



LOB%: Hudson




Looks like it is advantage: Hamels to me for these graphs

[etched Chaos]

Re: MLB 11 The Show - Overall Team Rankings

I can cherry pick stats to make the person I like better as well, it dont mean a thing.

Hudson beats Hamels in HR/9, AVG, BABIP, LOB %, and ERA. I should really compare Hanson to Hamels, but I dont have time right now. Hudson is better than Hamels hands down. You have to look at ALL stats to prove what you have to say not just the ones your player is better in.

You listed BABIP and you're moaning about cherrypicking. BABIP isn't a stat to determine a pitcher's ability, its more akin to how well the Defense works behind them and the luck of the bounce. Its also not a hugely important stat to compare players by.

Anyways seeing as you think Hudson is better lets really comnpare them.

ERA: Cole - 3.03 Tim - 2.83
SO: Cole - 209 Tim - 139
Hits: Cole - 185 Tim - 189
BB: Cole - 61 Tim - 74
IP: Cole - 208.2 Tim - 228.2
ERA+: Cole - 132 Tim - 138
WHIP: Cole - 1.179 Tim - 1.150
H/9: Cole - 8.0 Tim - 7.4
HR/9: Cole - 1.1 Tim - 0.8
BB/9: Cole - 2.6 Tim - 2.9
K:BB: Cole - 3.46 Tim - 1.88
WAR: Cole - 4.7 Tim - 5.4

Tim wins for totals. So he edges it, but with Cole's age and the inconsistency of Hudson for the last few years. I'd say Cole would be the better pitcher for 2011 and beyond. After all both had letdowns in 09 but Cole was by far the superior pitcher and has been for every year in the majors bar last year.