25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

[franko3219]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2

I like the fact they are offering my zone coverages, but it doesn't mean jack if the cb doesn't cover right . In all zone coverages you want to push wr toward sidelines and it never happens . They can include all the coverages and blitzes they want but the cpu can't play man or cover the right way its just going to be a mess.

I agree with you and others that, while the coverage may look good, it does not matter unless the defense plays their responsibilty correctly.

I disagree that the CB always wants to force the receiver to the sideline, as it depends on the coverage called. For example, in Cover 2 the CB would want to come down and jam the outside receiver inside and the LB/NB would want to jam the inside/slot receiver outside of the seem, in an effort to funnel the receivers to the safety overtop. If the CB lets the receiver outside of him, that is when the sideline window opens up. The same could be said for a any type of "Squat" or "Cloud" coverage where the corner has flat responsibilty because it then becomes the safety's job to get overtop and when you have safety's playing on the hash, you have to give them a chance to get position.

[LBzrule]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

While not something we haven't seen, the thing that really gets me with Base coverages in EA football games is they are not evenly distributed across every front. All base coverages should be apart of every front. For instance, I should not have to use hot routes to get cover 2 QB Spy with the CB's in buzz zones if I want that for 3-4 Predator or any other 3-4 front outside of normal. That base coverage should be evenly distributed across all fronts. This cover 6 for instance, it should be in the Nickel, Dime, Quarter, Dollar, 4-3 (all fronts), 3-4 (all fronts). It is a base coverage. What should be unique to playbooks is blitzes and different versions of base coverages (IMO). What if I want this cover 6 to be my base coverage and I want to scheme around it? Am I going to just be left to do that in Nickel? That cuts the gamer and their creativity on defense off IMO. Obviously, you wouldn't run cover 6 every play. There are some calculated risks you have to make given certain situations, but until I am in those situations and if cover 6 is working for me, I should be able to use it and not have to be in Nickel to use it.

[Hova57]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2

I agree with you and others that, while the coverage may look good, it does not matter unless the defense plays their responsibilty correctly.

I disagree that the CB always wants to force the receiver to the sideline, as it depends on the coverage called. For example, in Cover 2 the CB would want to come down and jam the outside receiver inside and the LB/NB would want to jam the inside/slot receiver outside of the seem, in an effort to funnel the receivers to the safety overtop. If the CB lets the receiver outside of him, that is when the sideline window opens up. The same could be said for a any type of "Squat" or "Cloud" coverage where the corner has flat responsibilty because it then becomes the safety's job to get overtop and when you have safety's playing on the hash, you have to give them a chance to get position.

Yea I understand that, but you should still have the ability to shade your guy off . in the cover 2 and 3 and so forth you always want to funnel toward the safety. lets be real here it not like these football games have wr that aware that they should squat in open spots.

[Hova57]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

While not something we haven't seen, the thing that really gets me with Base coverages in EA football games is they are not evenly distributed across every front. All base coverages should be apart of every front. For instance, I should not have to use hot routes to get cover 2 QB Spy with the CB's in buzz zones if I want that for 3-4 Predator or any other 3-4 front outside of normal. That base coverage should be evenly distributed across all fronts. This cover 6 for instance, it should be in the Nickel, Dime, Quarter, Dollar, 4-3 (all fronts), 3-4 (all fronts). It is a base coverage. What should be unique to playbooks is blitzes and different versions of base coverages (IMO). What if I want this cover 6 to be my base coverage and I want to scheme around it? Am I going to just be left to do that in Nickel? That cuts the gamer and their creativity on defense off IMO. Obviously, you wouldn't run cover 6 every play. There are some calculated risks you have to make given certain situations, but until I am in those situations and if cover 6 is working for me, I should be able to use it and not have to be in Nickel to use it.

the problem with having these in the base 4-3 or 3-4 LB don't get enough depth and sometime the safeties are too far away and the cb's aren't deep enough. That's why zone defense is so jacked in this game.

[LBzrule]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

the problem with having these in the base 4-3 or 3-4 LB don't get enough depth and sometime the safeties are too far away and the cb's aren't deep enough. That's why zone defense is so jacked in this game.

This is exactly why shells (All Pro 2k8) would be a great idea for the secondary IMO. But I'm not sure if they are refusing that idea or what. If you could have secondary shells, you could adjust your secondary and put them in better position for this coverage out of the 43/34 and then just manually play with the OLB. I don't expect the OLB's to get depth to keep up with certain routes to be honest. That has been a huge problem in the past. The WR's run fly routes slow and the OLB's could drop to the buzz and keep dropping with WR's running fly routes. Terrible And I hope they do not resort back to that. When they say they are "fixing zone defense" I hope that also includes WR route running, timing in the passing game, pass rush/edge rush and pocket usage. I always believe that to fix one thing means you have to fix many things not just that one thing. But we'll see how it plays out.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

I like this play. This is a defense that you see in lot of real life football. Think the 90's Cowboys and the 2000 Ravens. But like LBzrule said, you should be able to find it in any formation. One thing I do hope is that the safeties play proper run support because that's one of the great things about quarters coverages.

This is exactly why shells (All Pro 2k8) would be a great idea for the secondary IMO. But I'm not sure if they are refusing that idea or what. If you could have secondary shells, you could adjust your secondary and put them in better position for this coverage out of the 43/34 and then just manually play with the OLB.

When you say shells, are you talking about tiering the playbooks? I've kinda gone back and forth on it. I was all for tiering, then shttymcgee explained how line calls and coverages are tied together with run fits and how a greater variety of defensive calls was the answer.

What's your thoughts on it? I do know that APF 2K8 didn't have the wide variety of zone pressures that you get out of the EA games.

[LBzrule]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

I like this play. This is a defense that you see in lot of real life football. Think the 90's Cowboys and the 2000 Ravens. But like LBzrule said, you should be able to find it in any formation. One thing I do hope is that the safeties play proper run support because that's one of the great things about quarters coverages.





When you say shells, are you talking about tiering the playbooks? I've kinda gone back and forth on it. I was all for tiering, then shttymcgee explained how line calls and coverages are tied together with run fits and how a greater variety of defensive calls was the answer.

What's your thoughts on it? I do know that APF 2K8 didn't have the wide variety of zone pressures that you get out of the EA games.

By shells I am just referring to the ability to align your secondary. Let me just use one in conjunction with the cover 6 we see here. The alignment you are going to get on the field when you run this play will more than likely be a 2 deep shell look. On offense that's what you are going to see when someone runs this. The deep 1/4 corner will probably begin to bail before you snap the football, so that is going to tip you off that while the Safety's are up high in a 2 deep look that this is not cover 2 it is cover 6. Now what if I had the ability to change that pre-snap alignment to a cover 3 weak, with the FS dropping at around 8 yards, the deep 1/4 CB at around 6 to 8 yards, the SS directly over the TE (let's say I'm in a 2x1 formation - Two WR, 1TE) at 10 to 12 and the hook/flat Corner pressing. Would you then be able to tell that I am running Nickel cover 6? Probably not. This weak cover 3 shell would work great against a 2x1 because the FS would be in perfect position to defend the backside post route as well as deal with a post route by the TE. The SS would need speed to get to the outside on a fly route, but would be in great position to defend a post by #1. Same coverage, different shell.

Another way to run this one IMO anyways is to go 4 across the board. Have your entire secondary at around 8 yards off. You'd have to make sure your SS has some foot speed, unless you swap FS and SS to make sure that IF there is a fly route by #1 he can get there and cover that.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

Gotcha, LBzrule. Sounds like a needed addition. I know this is the type of stuff that would keep me engaged in the game... and learning.

[Hova57]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

that's the problem with Madden Palmer it's less about learning anymore. Most of us especially the old schoolers playing madden allowed us to learn more about the game of football. We didn't have a choice , but not to learn the game of football, because everything else was arcadey type games where you could buy power ups or things like mutant league or cyber football.

It makes me a little mad that the dev have gone away from that. People bitch and moan about everything now and holds back progress for what is believed to be ineffective or not usable.

[devinewon]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

Its called cover six because its half a cover 4 and half cover 2.

The left side of the offense sees a cover 4 look with the corner and safety dropping back into deep fourths and the right side sees a cover 2 look with the hook zones underneath and safety overtop.

The defense has been analyzed.

Hopefully the zones gate fixed or the new coverages mean nothing.

It does look like cloud out of Nickel though.

[Palo20]

Yeah this play needs to be available in every defensive formation. It should not be unique to "Nickel Normal" like it is in Madden.

[Claymaker52]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

You can't go wrong with this play. If they go short or deep you have it covered. Only thing is, what side of the field is he going to go short and deep on? Perfect play for 3rd and long.

[thescorpio1985]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

some defensive love it is GREAT to have!

[Special27K]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

There was a lot of just crazy good general football knowledge tossed around in this thread, I love it. The responsibilities of CB's in certain situations, whether to play inside or outside leverage based on what's over the top.

It does resemble Cloud out Nickel Strong, although (haven't played since December-ish) to my knowledge its a Cover 3 over the top, evenly split between the CB and S's. This is like somebody said a "Quarters Halves" zone. I don't remember much of different zone variations like in this play.

The problem with the zones I always thought was that the defensive player ran to the middle of their zone and stayed centered in it, they were too "tight", didn't follow WR/RB/TE's through the zone, or waited till the WR/RB/TE came to them.

Hopefully the fact that they're defensive plays means that defensive AI gets some attention, especially in zone responsibility and outside/inside leverage on man coverage.

[ViLLiO]

Re: 25 New Plays Coming to NCAA Football 12 - Play #2: Nickel Normal Cover 6

WE NEED CREATE-A-PLAY