Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

[Rocky]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

I actually watch Jersey Shore and still have no interest in the match. Although honestly, even if she wasn't involved at all, I still wouldn't be interested. It's not really Snooki as much as it was a random *** match thrown together that doesn't really interest me. The Snooki factor doesn't help, but it wouldn't be like the mixed-tag would be "must see TV" without her.

You're a wrestling fan already though. This isn't supposed to appeal to you.

This is for the guy that happens to see on MTV that Snooki is wrestling at Wrestlemania. Because of that they tune in to RAW for the first time in a long time. They are drawn in and order WM27 with there friends.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

Cena turning on the fans and everything he's built up in his career so far would be the right thing to do at this moment in time. Sometimes they wait way too long to do these things which kills the momentum of the actual turn.

Cena heel turn makes no sense at all right now and would have a) no logical rationale behind it - "I'm turning heel because I hate the fans! The same fans I've been kissing up to for 6 years now" and more importantly b) there is NO ONE to take Cena's spot as the top face. As much as I love RKO, he's not nearly enough to be the guy as the top face of the company, and that leaves - Edge? Kofi? A hot-shotted Bryan?

Maybe a Sheamus or Miz turn could help a heel Cena as far as opposition, but would that really work against a heel Cena? Maybe a bit off topic...just want to make the point that the 'Cena should turn HEEL!' crowd really should think logically before constantly making that statement. I'm as much for change as the next guy, but I also realize that Cena is a cash cow right now and face of the company, and it'd likely take a feud w/ a face of similar stature to him (and Orton doesn't fit that bill) for him to turn heel and do it successfully. Just my 2c.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

If it was fatal four way ppv, I wouldn't care.

It's Wrestlemania, and we are wasting time on Snookie vs Vickie. That time could be going towards a much, much better match.

The same company where Drew Carey and Pete Rose participated in the Royal Rumble. The same company where Cindi Lauper, Mike Tyson, Lawrence Taylor and Mr. T were parts of moderately big matches at WM. Please, stop taking things so seriously. You have to look at things logically, and realize that BUYRATES come first and foremost before anything else. WWE sees buyrates for all of their PPV's falling, and wants to save that buy any means necessary. If that means throwing Snooki into a low card match, I have no problem with it.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

Exactly. Ziggler, Morrison, LayCool, and Stratus can ALL work. Snooki being put in there is for celeb factor.

And don't tell me there isn't the internet fan mentality. Everyone was dismissing the Snooki appearance in this thread well before she even showed up on TV.

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Yep. It's the snobbish internet mentality that drives me away from these forums. People have a problem blurring the lines, take things too personally, which leads to the "I'm not watching this crap!" statements (which are almost never followed through upon BTW.) Not calling anyone out specifically, just saying that it's an attitude that goes on far too frequently around here, as people seem to have an ideal about the company that's nowhere close to the reality that's been built up for the past 3-4 years in particular. Once K-Fed works a match w/ the WWE champ all bets are off, or at least I thought.

And sorry for the triple post, just hadn't been in this thread at all and saw quite a few posts to respond to, just chose these to reply to.

[goh]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

The same company where Drew Carey and Pete Rose participated in the Royal Rumble. The same company where Cindi Lauper, Mike Tyson, Lawrence Taylor and Mr. T were parts of moderately big matches at WM. Please, stop taking things so seriously. You have to look at things logically, and realize that BUYRATES come first and foremost before anything else. WWE sees buyrates for all of their PPV's falling, and wants to save that buy any means necessary. If that means throwing Snooki into a low card match, I have no problem with it.

Worked so well for TNA.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

They see PPV rates falling because they're not always putting on shows worthy of actually purchasing and there is oversaturation, especially recently with all the gimmick PPVs. It used to be that a fatal four way or a HIAC match would be pretty special. Now? A whole PPV dedicated to them. Prestige has taken a hit bigtime, just like with the titles as Streets pointed out in his thread.

Plus, probably even bigger reason is that the economy sucks, and the prices are way too expensive even in a healthy one.

[Dirty Turtles]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

They see PPV rates falling because they're not always putting on shows worthy of actually purchasing and there is oversaturation, especially recently with all the gimmick PPVs. It used to be that a fatal four way or a HIAC match would be pretty special. Now? A whole PPV dedicated to them. Prestige has taken a hit bigtime, just like with the titles as Streets pointed out in his thread.

Plus, probably even bigger reason is that the economy sucks, and the prices are way too expensive even in a healthy one.

I agree, but they seem to think that gimmick PPVs will increase buys. They'd increase buys by having compelling PPVs put together intermixing the compelling stories with gimmick matches to make some of them seem more special. I have yet to be excited for a gimmick PPV, just because they had a bunch of gimmick matches scheduled. I don't need the Money in the Bank PPV, give me the MitB at Mania and let me be all that more excited for it.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

They see PPV rates falling because they're not always putting on shows worthy of actually purchasing and there is oversaturation, especially recently with all the gimmick PPVs. It used to be that a fatal four way or a HIAC match would be pretty special. Now? A whole PPV dedicated to them. Prestige has taken a hit bigtime, just like with the titles as Streets pointed out in his thread.

Plus, probably even bigger reason is that the economy sucks, and the prices are way too expensive even in a healthy one.

I somewhat agree w/ your point about the oversaturation of PPVs. But this isn't just another show, this is the biggest show of the year, and it's clear that Vince wants to bring in as much attention as he can to try to up the buyrates for WM, which have been down in recent years. He's already got The Rock and Austin involved, even if they're not wrestling. HBK possibly involved in the Taker/HHH match.

Adding Snooki is just to create even more buzz. I don't see why people are so offended by it. Like I said in my other post, people have to look at this rationally and stop being so emotionally attached to this ideal about pro wrestling that just doesn't exist anymore. It's a business first and foremost. Thats why no matter how much internet fans b and moan about it, Cena isn't turning heel anytime soon. That's why Snooki's added to Wrestlemania in a relatively meaningless match.

[SmashMan]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

Worked so well for TNA.

WWE gets the 'star' of Jersey Shore. TNA gets...the other people?

WWE puts Snooki around Trish Stratus, LayCool, Dolph Ziggler and John Morrison (all who obviously will drive the match). TNA surrounds J-Woww/Angelina with the Beautiful People, Sarita, and Cookie.

TNA has Angelina call out J-Woww on Impact. This makes no sense. Why would they not just fight on Jersey Shore? They come to TNA to settle their differences? WTF? ...it also would've made 100x more sense if Snooki came to confront Cookie; instead of J-Woww.

I'm not going to say Snooki was on my 'dream' WM card for this year, but I'm not bothered by it at all.

[Streets]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

I somewhat agree w/ your point about the oversaturation of PPVs. But this isn't just another show, this is the biggest show of the year, and it's clear that Vince wants to bring in as much attention as he can to try to up the buyrates for WM, which have been down in recent years. He's already got The Rock and Austin involved, even if they're not wrestling. HBK possibly involved in the Taker/HHH match.

Adding Snooki is just to create even more buzz. I don't see why people are so offended by it. Like I said in my other post, people have to look at this rationally and stop being so emotionally attached to this ideal about pro wrestling that just doesn't exist anymore. It's a business first and foremost. Thats why no matter how much internet fans b and moan about it, Cena isn't turning heel anytime soon. That's why Snooki's added to Wrestlemania in a relatively meaningless match.

Rick,

There are two ways to look at the product and any decision the WWE makes (who should be pushed, who should turn, what storylines are good, etc.). One, is to look at the product from a business perspective (overness, buyrates, ratings, etc.)

Then there's looking at decisions and judging them by what we as fans would like to see, and conversely, what we have no interest in seeing. I used to be just like you, preaching the former, and calling everyone who didn't see that keeping Cena face is just good business sense "internet snobs" (though I probably wasn't that harsh). I think I realized that I have no stock in the WWE and thus, it doesn't really matter to me if they get more buys putting Snooki on the card. I can respect it, but I don't have to like it. I'm not going to see any of that extra money.

However, there is this rare middle ground that few people tread where you can like something that's bad for business or hate something that's good for business because you're a fan. I'm not talking about the guys who think that everything the WWE does is crap but are the most loyal viewers. Or on the other end, preach that everything the WWE does is great even if you know damn well you don't wanna see it.

Here are some examples of business and personal feelings that I have that contradict, but I can accept both.

Rey Mysterio is an awesome worker and very underrated (business), but I hate him and the way he is booked (personal)

Alberto Del Rio probably shouldn't win at Mania and will most likely end up going the Swagger/Sheamus route if he does (business), but I will mark like crazy if he does win as he is a top 3 favorite of mine (personal).

Snooki at Wrestlemania is smart business and will increase buyrates (business), but I can't stand the troll and have no desire to see her, or any mixed tag match for that matter at the PPV (personal).

PG makes the product more accessible to families and broadens the WWE audience. It's also a safer play as they have no real competition (business), but I like my programming edgier and think some of what is put out under the PG banner is corny as hell (personal).

I maintain that turning Cena heel would be good for business and for me as a fan, but I digress there as I've already spoken at length about it.

Whether you stick to one side or another it's still a limited view either way. Labeling the other side as snobby or stubborn or whatever doesn't really change anything.

[Segagendude]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

So, let me geylt this straight. WWE grabs one of the biggest reality stars in history (and I don't even like or watch Jersey Shore) and people are asking why?

And nobody knows why this is.

Anyway..........this match will be nothing more than a "filler" for me. I.e. great time to leave and use the restroom, start the BBQ, etc.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

Rick,

There are two ways to look at the product and any decision the WWE makes (who should be pushed, who should turn, what storylines are good, etc.). One, is to look at the product from a business perspective (overness, buyrates, ratings, etc.)

Then there's looking at decisions and judging them by what we as fans would like to see, and conversely, what we have no interest in seeing. I used to be just like you, preaching the former, and calling everyone who didn't see that keeping Cena face is just good business sense "internet snobs" (though I probably wasn't that harsh). I think I realized that I have no stock in the WWE and thus, it doesn't really matter to me if they get more buys putting Snooki on the card. I can respect it, but I don't have to like it. I'm not going to see any of that extra money.

However, there is this rare middle ground that few people tread where you can like something that's bad for business or hate something that's good for business because you're a fan. I'm not talking about the guys who think that everything the WWE does is crap but are the most loyal viewers. Or on the other end, preach that everything the WWE does is great even if you know damn well you don't wanna see it.

Here are some examples of business and personal feelings that I have that contradict, but I can accept both.

Rey Mysterio is an awesome worker and very underrated (business), but I hate him and the way he is booked (personal)

Alberto Del Rio probably shouldn't win at Mania and will most likely end up going the Swagger/Sheamus route if he does (business), but I will mark like crazy if he does win as he is a top 3 favorite of mine (personal).

Snooki at Wrestlemania is smart business and will increase buyrates (business), but I can't stand the troll and have no desire to see her, or any mixed tag match for that matter at the PPV (personal).

PG makes the product more accessible to families and broadens the WWE audience. It's also a safer play as they have no real competition (business), but I like my programming edgier and think some of what is put out under the PG banner is corny as hell (personal).

I maintain that turning Cena heel would be good for business and for me as a fan, but I digress there as I've already spoken at length about it.

Whether you stick to one side or another it's still a limited view either way. Labeling the other side as snobby or stubborn or whatever doesn't really change anything.

I respect that, and I actually think I share your view on things. I'm a fan first and foremost, but I also realize the business side of it. I don't want to be too cynical and make it seem like the business side clouds my judgment of the product. FWIW I wasn't trying to label anyone on here as anything, and apologize if I did so.

I actually don't have a problem w/ either side of the coin. I just get tired of folks that overreact w/ stuff like "I'm not buying this, this is a waste of a match, etc" and then end up buying it anyways. It's a hard thing to put my finger on.

I like to think I usually look at things both ways - for instance I like John Cena as a performer, but the way his character is booked at times (Super Cena) does bug me, and some of his promos over the past few weeks have been god awful. Does that mean he should turn heel? Right now, no...but down the line I do think that a Cena heel turn would be great. I even could have went for one during the Nexus angle, even if he just turned back face after a few weeks.

Again, don't want to go too far off topic (as if it matters) - just giving my view on the sensationalism that goes on sometimes around here. I understand people are emotional about the product, which is great. Don't want to come off as if I'm on some sort of high horse either, I'm a fan just like the rest of you. Just have a different perspective.

[Streets]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

I respect that, and I actually think I share your view on things. I'm a fan first and foremost, but I also realize the business side of it. I don't want to be too cynical and make it seem like the business side clouds my judgment of the product. FWIW I wasn't trying to label anyone on here as anything, and apologize if I did so.

I actually don't have a problem w/ either side of the coin. I just get tired of folks that overreact w/ stuff like "I'm not buying this, this is a waste of a match, etc" and then end up buying it anyways. It's a hard thing to put my finger on.

I like to think I usually look at things both ways - for instance I like John Cena as a performer, but the way his character is booked at times (Super Cena) does bug me, and some of his promos over the past few weeks have been god awful. Does that mean he should turn heel? Right now, no...but down the line I do think that a Cena heel turn would be great. I even could have went for one during the Nexus angle, even if he just turned back face after a few weeks.

Again, don't want to go too far off topic (as if it matters) - just giving my view on the sensationalism that goes on sometimes around here. I understand people are emotional about the product, which is great. Don't want to come off as if I'm on some sort of high horse either, I'm a fan just like the rest of you. Just have a different perspective.

Nah, you and I are on the same wavelength about the sensationalism that goes on (here and other places). I even wrote an article on it. From a business perspective it makes sense to cater to the casual fans (i.e. Snooki) because the people who are up in arms about it to the point that they are "done with wrestling" or think that it's "the biggest travesty ever" are going to be the first people to buy the PPV and pre-order it on Blu-Ray. So I feel you. I was just defending myself (and any other OSers who sort of think like me) and saying that I am not one of those people. I actually love the WWE and the second it stops being enjoyable, I'll stop. Some act like it's torture at times and yet watch it every week, devote time to comment on it, and buy all the merchandise. I think that's what you were getting at?

[Millennium]

Just curious for everybody with arguing against Snooki: did anybody else hear the pop she got?

Yeah...it was a legit pop. From wrestling fans. In an arena.

I guess wrestling fans really hated her....

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[Streets]

Re: Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

Just curious for everybody with arguing against snooki: did anybody else here the pop she got?

Yeah...it was a legit pop. From wrestling fans. In an arena.

I guess wrestling fans really hated her....

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I don't think anyone is arguing her popularity (also, it was smart of them to pit her against the WWE's most over heel). No one is arguing that it doesn't make good business sense either. I think OS is a very large minority of wrestling fan. People in the arenas also boo the Miz and Punk. Legit heat. That doesn't mean that I can't as a fan cheer for those two individuals. The fans loved seeing Lawler in the title hunt. That doesn't mean that I as a fan can not want to see him in a main event match. Everyone can agree that it's good for business, but when it comes to what each of us would like to see individually... different strokes. There really is no "right or wrong". Labels need not apply in this case.