Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

You don't need to judge elevation when you zoom in for your shot? I have not seen that in the demo, but it's hard to tell as there is not a huge amount of elevation on the demo holes. I would be surprised if that is an accurate statement.

And, that last statement is a heck of a thing to post to someone, who has only played the demo and is seeking more info. "Sorry you don't like TW12. See ya next year.". But, that certainly seems to accurately reflect the EA attitude.

The 18th hole at Augusta has an elevated green, well at least is seems to when I play it. If i play an iron that is pin high I won't even hit the green so I have to hit at least a club or two lower and my aimng zone shows the back of the green for that lower club selection, even the caddie shot reflects that.

I'm not sure why Divotmaker said that because elevation is a factor unless it's changed in the full game making it even more arcadish at which point I will cancel my pre-order with 100% certainty rather than debating the notion of doing it at the present time.

[ShivasIrons]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

Well I went back and played the TW 11 demo (since I didn't buy TW 11). And to me true aim on TW 11 is a bit easier. Noted I did play w/ the putt meter on in the demo, but it still seemed easier than TW 12 demo true aim. Having the elevations given to you instead of having to judge it yourself does seem easier IMO. Like I've said in previous posts, having the caddy there is an annoyance, but it's still within you as a player to hit the shots. I guess my own 'house rule' so to speak has been that I haven't been using shot practice, except for on putts. Every other shot I just leave it to myself to judge the percentage on the first swing. And you can still pretty much aim wherever you want in TW 11, the only difference is the zoom.

Like I posted above, there is no "true aim" in TW12 demo or in TW12 from what have I read and heard. It's all zoomed aiming and zoomed adjustment of shots (draw, fade, loft). Aiming is done from a zoomed perspective. There are some other new features which will perhaps make the game play harder from a scoring perspective (ex vertical random landing), and some of those are good additions.

But, what's more realistic -- aiming truly from the perspective of the golfer on the tee as in TW11 True Aim, or -- zoomed aiming and zoomed application of draw, fade, loft, etc?

I'm still getting TW12. There are a lot of good additions over 11. No putt meter online. Vertical random landing. Landing circles gone online. Option to turn green grid off in online games (will have to see if that's playable - it wasn't last year in the game, imo). I played 11 the last few months online with others and using the honor system we did not use focus, had no putt meter and had reduced club distances thru tuning. And, TW 12 will be an improvement over that. The disappointment to me was going back to the more unrealistic zoomed aiming/adjustment of shots, esp when many thought true aim would be put online in TW12. But, like I said, there is nothing "true" or realistic about the zoomed aiming in TW 12 Tournament mode. Is it a reason not to get the game? Not for me. But, perhaps for some. It is a reason to be disappointed in one aspect though.

[ShivasIrons]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

The 18th hole at Augusta has an elevated green, well at least is seems to when I play it. If i play an iron that is pin high I won't even hit the green so I have to hit at least a club or two lower and my aimng zone shows the back of the green for that lower club selection, even the caddie shot reflects that.

I'm not sure why Divotmaker said that because elevation is a factor unless it's changed in the full game making it even more arcadish at which point I will cancel my pre-order with 100% certainty rather than debating the notion of doing it at the present time.

From my playing of that hole, I have to agree with you. I remember adjusting my zoomed target to account for elevation. But, like I said, it will be easier to know for sure after getting to play the full game on all the courses, ESP those with more severe elevation changes.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

If you are not getting the game then go over to EA's forum to let them know as I have never seen any of their devs here so your cries will go unheard. Not trying to be mean but for the love of golf.....GET OVER IT.<O

Actually I've opened a thread on the EA forum with a simple request as to whether we will get a patch to at least disable the caddie box. The thread is just requesting an answer as whether we are or not. If it's yes then great, if it's no then fine, but at least give us an answer one way or the other so alot of us can know before Tuesday.

If they were going to issue a patch for anything they would have to at least start working on it now because it takes several weeks for it to get certified by Sony and Microsoft and they can add stuff as the game comes out and bugs are discovered.

Last year the patch came out about a month after the game so it's logical to assume thay have made a decision one way or the other regarding the caddie box because they know the negative feedback from thier forums and don't need the full game to gauge it any further as the full game is exactly like the demo for the caddie feature.

Look at Nascar 2011, the game comes out the same day and they have already announced that a patch will be issued in the future with the 2011 scoring system. That's what important for alot of sim gamers and now that they know that, they will buy the game. And even if they announced that they wouldn't patch in the 2011 points system, they showed enough respect to the community to give us an answer yes or no, before the game came out.

I made the EA thread 2 days ago and have yet to get a response by any devs on there. I guess that shows you right there how much respect these guys have for the community. I'll be shocked if I do get a response other than the standard "we are looking into it" crap.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

From my playing of that hole, I have to agree with you. I remember adjusting my zoomed target to account for elevation. But, like I said, it will be easier to know for sure after getting to play the full game on all the courses, ESP those with more severe elevation changes.

If you get the game, go to the par 3, 7th hole at Pebble Beach for the quickest and easiest indicator about elevation factor. You have to go at least 2 clubs higher with that hole and you will be able to easily tell whether it's a factor if your ball ends up in the ocean.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

Like I posted above, there is no "true aim" in TW12 demo or in TW12 from what have I read and heard. It's all zoomed aiming and zoomed adjustment of shots (draw, fade, loft). Aiming is done from a zoomed perspective. There are some other new features which will perhaps make the game play harder from a scoring perspective (ex vertical random landing), and some of those are good additions.

But, what's more realistic -- aiming truly from the perspective of the golfer on the tee as in TW11 True Aim, or -- zoomed aiming and zoomed application of draw, fade, loft, etc?

I'm still getting TW12. There are a lot of good additions over 11. No putt meter online. Vertical random landing. Landing circles gone online. Option to turn green grid off in online games (will have to see if that's playable - it wasn't last year in the game, imo). I played 11 the last few months online with others and using the honor system we did not use focus, had no putt meter and had reduced club distances thru tuning. And, TW 12 will be an improvement over that. The disappointment to me was going back to the more unrealistic zoomed aiming/adjustment of shots, esp when many thought true aim would be put online in TW12. But, like I said, there is nothing "true" or realistic about the zoomed aiming in TW 12 Tournament mode. Is it a reason not to get the game? Not for me. But, perhaps for some. It is a reason to be disappointed in one aspect though.

To me it's no different. TW11 you still can zoom, adjust, zoom again, adjust, to your heart's content. It's not really that much of a difference, at least not as much as you're making it seem. The only way to make it really 'true aim' would be to take the option for zoom away entirely. But like I said, TW11 you can still zoom as much as you want. And you also are given the elevations instead of judging them yourself, which to me makes things a bit easier.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

To me it's no different. TW11 you still can zoom, adjust, zoom again, adjust, to your heart's content. It's not really that much of a difference, at least not as much as you're making it seem. The only way to make it really 'true aim' would be to take the option for zoom away entirely. But like I said, TW11 you can still zoom as much as you want. And you also are given the elevations instead of judging them yourself, which to me makes things a bit easier.

Yes in TW11 you can zoom in and view the landing area but are still making aiming adjustments from the tee box, (it didn't allow you to aim your shot from that view) so you have to make note of trees or bunkers in zoom view that you can't really see clearly from the tee box. It feels like you are really golfing from the golfer perspective and added a level of immersion in true aim that is sorely lacking in TW12 because it makes you pinpoint your landing area from the zoomed view rather than the tee box.

[Rules]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

Actually I've opened a thread on the EA forum with a simple request as to whether we will get a patch to at least disable the caddie box. The thread is just requesting an answer as whether we are or not. If it's yes then great, if it's no then fine, but at least give us an answer one way or the other so alot of us can know before Tuesday.

If they were going to issue a patch for anything they would have to at least start working on it now because it takes several weeks for it to get certified by Sony and Microsoft and they can add stuff as the game comes out and bugs are discovered.

Last year the patch came out about a month after the game so it's logical to assume thay have made a decision one way or the other regarding the caddie box because they know the negative feedback from thier forums and don't need the full game to gauge it any further as the full game is exactly like the demo for the caddie feature.

Look at Nascar 2011, the game comes out the same day and they have already announced that a patch will be issued in the future with the 2011 scoring system. That's what important for alot of sim gamers and now that they know that, they will buy the game. And even if they announced that they wouldn't patch in the 2011 points system, they showed enough respect to the community to give us an answer yes or no, before the game came out.

I made the EA thread 2 days ago and have yet to get a response by any devs on there. I guess that shows you right there how much respect these guys have for the community. I'll be shocked if I do get a response other than the standard "we are looking into it" crap.

I've been reading the posts over there and the Devs haven't really responded to anything. I really don't like that as people need answers to make a sound decision. In my opinion their silence is deafening. Speaks volumes when you don't inform the public concerning one way or another. I personally take it as they don't care but that is just me.

[ShivasIrons]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

To me it's no different. TW11 you still can zoom, adjust, zoom again, adjust, to your heart's content. It's not really that much of a difference, at least not as much as you're making it seem. The only way to make it really 'true aim' would be to take the option for zoom away entirely. But like I said, TW11 you can still zoom as much as you want. And you also are given the elevations instead of judging them yourself, which to me makes things a bit easier.

Ranger rick, ... Like I posted to Divotmaker a few pages back, fire up your TW11 demo, load TP True Aim, then prepare some shots with fade, draw, loft and do your zoom out thing.

Then, fire up TW12 demo, go to Tournament mode, ... zoom out, apply some draw, fade, loft. And, report back if you see any difference.

As far as "the only way" to make it really true aim ... As was also posted earlier, true aim could have been improved upon by giving one static map when zooming out that was not dependent on aim or club selected, but which showed gps info. This would be realistic as it would be like a regular gps device or good yardage book in real life.

All of this was posted and discussed above in the thread. And, here we are posting it again. Did you read the thread and the last 5-6 pages?

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

I've been reading the posts over there and the Devs haven't really responded to anything. I really don't like that as people need answers to make a sound decision. In my opinion their silence is deafening. Speaks volumes when you don't inform the public concerning one way or another. I personally take it as they don't care but that is just me.

I personally take it as they not going to patch out the caddie box and don't want to say so for fear of the backlash on the board and losing some sales. They will stay forever silent or vague about it to give you that small amount of false hope and figure you will take the plunge anyways because of Augusta which will be true for most gamers.

If they were going to patch it then they would have said so quickly on that thread to make everyone happy and get out Tuesday and spend that money.

[ShivasIrons]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

I've been reading the posts over there and the Devs haven't really responded to anything. I really don't like that as people need answers to make a sound decision. In my opinion their silence is deafening. Speaks volumes when you don't inform the public concerning one way or another. I personally take it as they don't care but that is just me.

Well, it's the weekend now. So, their silence over the weekend is expected. And, several of them did come into the forum there in the days after the demo hit, and that was a good thing to see. It'll be interesting to see if they continue to interact after the game hits this week. I'd guess that you'll see them in there.

But, from what I've seen there, they do have an uncanny ability pick and choose what they want to respond to. Usually, it something to promote the game or promote features in the game. It seems like certain topics that are related to real defects in the game they just completely ignore addressing those.

Like last year, they were sure to post to promote their DLC courses to get people to buy them. But, when there were defects such as a missing hole/pin on a hole on a course, they were just silent. They didn't fix it. There were no refunds. They just took your money and kept it without saying a word. Heck, they were probably laughing about all the suckers that they got to buy those.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

To me it's no different. TW11 you still can zoom, adjust, zoom again, adjust, to your heart's content. It's not really that much of a difference, at least not as much as you're making it seem. The only way to make it really 'true aim' would be to take the option for zoom away entirely. But like I said, TW11 you can still zoom as much as you want. And you also are given the elevations instead of judging them yourself, which to me makes things a bit easier.

Sure, but the camera view doesn't change based on your adjustments. al you get is a basic view of where it is going. It doesn't change when you add loft, fade, or draw. And it doesn't even change when you change clubs. TW 12 does this in the zoomed camera view.

Getting the elevations make it possible to make informed decisions. You know, that's why the caddy uses that information. But then they don't let the user have it when the Caddy is disabled. Why not use the new 3D grass swaying trees and flag at the pin to judge the wind, too?

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

You don't need to judge elevation when you zoom in for your shot? I have not seen that in the demo, but it's hard to tell as there is not a huge amount of elevation on the demo holes. I would be surprised if that is an accurate statement.

And, that last statement is a heck of a thing to post to someone, who has only played the demo and is seeking more info. "Sorry you don't like TW12. See ya next year.". But, that certainly seems to accurately reflect the EA attitude.

No, you do not need to judge elevation when zoomed because the zoom takes you to a view of the landing area and whether you change clubs when Zoomed or not zoomed, the view will show you the changes in where the landing area will be.

As far as that last statement, it is NOT EA's attitude, it is MINE. An attitude and opinion I am entitled to. The user I was responding to said he prefers TW11 and does NOT like TW12. So what is your point other than to start an unnecessary argument or yet again another unnecessary personal comment? Either stick to the discussion or don't post. We don't need this kind of garbage here.

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

I personally take it as they not going to patch out the caddie box and don't want to say so for fear of the backlash on the board and losing some sales. They will stay forever silent or vague about it to give you that small amount of false hope and figure you will take the plunge anyways because of Augusta which will be true for most gamers.

If they were going to patch it then they would have said so quickly on that thread to make everyone happy and get out Tuesday and spend that money.

No. They are not and never have announced a patch before or right at launch for ANY version of TW. They prefer to wait for user feedback on the final version of the game before they determine BASED on FEEDBACK if and what they can/will patch. No need for a kneejerk reaction because contrary to what you and I think about the Caddy, there are quite a few users who do like the feature and if they don't, they are finding ways around it until or if a decision is made to patch the feature out of Tournament mode or if it actually CAN be patched out. At the very least, if they could patch out his suggestions and/or disable him altogether in Tournament mode, the return TrueAim to what it was in TW11, then I think you would have the most challenging and realistic scenario.

[ShivasIrons]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 12: The Masters Demo Available Now, Post Impressions Here

No, you do not need to judge elevation when zoomed because the zoom takes you to a view of the landing area and whether you change clubs when Zoomed or not zoomed, the view will show you the changes in where the landing area will be.

As far as that last statement, it is NOT EA's attitude, it is MINE. An attitude and opinion I am entitled to. The user I was responding to said he prefers TW11 and does NOT like TW12. So what is your point other than to start an unnecessary argument or yet again another unnecessary personal comment? Either stick to the discussion or don't post. We don't need this kind of garbage here.

Hmm, ... I hope you are wrong on that comment about elevation. Or, like Seymour said that would sure be another huge arcade-like feature that would be a real dumbing down of the game, esp on the hardest level. I find it hard to believe that even EA would make elevation not relevant through use of the zoomed aiming. That's a new game feature that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere but here by you. You sure you don't have to move your zoomed landing area beyond the hole to take into account an uphill elevation shot? Typically, the more uphill elevation, the more you have to take into account elevation by moving your zoomed landing area further past the hole? You're sure that no matter the elevation change, you just put your zoomed aimed landing area on the flag?

What we do need here is accurate and objective info, not telling someone to not get the game and "see ya next year."