Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

[The Blargh]

...or more specifically, the meter not representing my actual aim with the analog stick a majority of the time. It's a very jarring/frustrating experience to have pushed my stick right, and have the meter show me that the pitch is aimed left. Or vice versa. Or even more likely, the pitch simply heading down the middle third.

Now, I understand that player stats still matter, and even with max stats, pitchers miss, and I'm fine with that. What makes this so annoying is that I can't trust the meter as reliable feedback for where to put my analog stick. I can only assume that the game is making the stat calculation on the release, and the meter represents where the pitch is actually heading after the stat modification goes in, rather than where I attempted to aim on my forward motion with the analog stick.

If this is case, I really think that the analog meter should represent where my analog stick is actually pressed, and any stat modifications that affect where the pitch actually lands applied afterward...especially since I can't calibrate the analog stick to train the game where I expect a movement to actually be aimed.

If this isn't the case, and the game actually thinks right is left and vice versa, then I'm really disappointed with the game's accuracy across three different controllers, including one brand new MLB 11: The Show themed one.

I really enjoy the game, and the analog controls as a whole. But it's ridiculously frustrating to try to throw a pitch to the right side of the plate...and it goes left. Or just down the middle. Less to the right sends it into the batters box. Or right where I want it. It's random enough that sometimes I think I'm better off lobbing it down the middle.

I'm not even complaining about the success of the pitches -- my RTTS pitcher is still rocking numbers-wise. It's just, again, a very jarring/frustrating experience to not be able to trust the visual feedback from the analog aim, especially when there's no calibration option (that I've found, at least) to train the analog stick how I aim, and without reliable feedback from the game, I can't tell where the stats are kicking in and making me miss, and when I'm missing the spot and making me miss.

Any advice would be appreciated, of course. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong. My release point is generally right after the line cross so if I miss, I miss low -- I get a lot of normal releases.

[Teamyourmom]

Yeah i hear u dude. It can be frustrating. I play RTTS so i still have somewhat low control attributes. It seems easier to aim my fastball since it has the best control but i cant seem to go 7 innings without giving up 3 runs. It sucks cuz ill spin a gem other than like 5 mistake pitches staying straight. Its always bad when howie kendrick takes you yard. Lol. But to answer your question, the more i play, the better ive gotten. Sometimes it seems i just need to be sitting on the coach just right to keep the controller still as possible. But im much better at it and i prefer it because i can at least control WHERE i miss with a pitch. Just practice and itll get better. Also, sometimes i think the release point plays an effect. Not sure tho. Im still praticing. Good luck!

[The Blargh]

Re: Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

Yeah i hear u dude. It can be frustrating. I play RTTS so i still have somewhat low control attributes. It seems easier to aim my fastball since it has the best control but i cant seem to go 7 innings without giving up 3 runs. It sucks cuz ill spin a gem other than like 5 mistake pitches staying straight. Its always bad when howie kendrick takes you yard. Lol. But to answer your question, the more i play, the better ive gotten. Sometimes it seems i just need to be sitting on the coach just right to keep the controller still as possible. But im much better at it and i prefer it because i can at least control WHERE i miss with a pitch. Just practice and itll get better. Also, sometimes i think the release point plays an effect. Not sure tho. Im still praticing. Good luck!

The release point plays a big effect -- I'm always far more likely to hit the left to right aim when my release point is normal or just slightly late...much like real life!

It's not so much the effects of a miss that bug me, or getting taken yard -- like I said, my RTTS pitcher (go Duke Boomer, go!) is actually rocking pretty hard in his rookie year in the majors. It's just more of a game feel complaint, and me being used to trusting visual feedback on games without calibration options. I'd like to be able to tell if it was a mistake on my part that got me owned so I can correct it, or if it's a mistake on Duke Boomer's part because his BB/9 or CTRL rating for a pitch is ***, you know?

I wouldn't mind seeing the same final results I see now, as long as the game-force misses were applied after the meter gave me proper feedback as to where my stick actually aimed. If I wasn't clear before, I don't really want any change in final outcome, but a change in display. I think the game would have a better feel if the analog pitching meter were an accurate representation of my input, after which point the game applied its modifiers to determine where my pitch ends up.

[Teamyourmom]

Yeah i know what u mean. There have been times where im like WTF. Its like i swear i did the same as the other pitches, yet this knuckle curve hangs and BAM! HR! I try to over-exaggerate pitches on the corners cuz id rather miss with a ball then a fastball splitting the middle. I do wish it was more accrate tho...or at least a slider to allow for sensitivity or somethin. All in all i guess i just ignore it now. I did tweak the human control slider a bit since i was gettin abused. Lol. At least the misses arent as terrible. I still have plenty of mistake pitches. Im hoping that all goes away once my control ratings increase.

[stealyerface]

Re: Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

Go to the Pitching Practice sessions and practice your release, aim, and stick speed towards the target.

The closer you get to hitting the perfect release point, the more accurately the stick's representation of your aim is. Meaning, if you release the ball in the correct spot, you will be more accurate with where you are trying to aim the ball.... Hmm... Now there is an interesting concept.

Once you get the aim mechanism down with regards to the release point, now you can start working the stick left and right and put some movement on the ball on purpose. You can get the ball to tail in, out, and you can use the stick to really dial in the 2-seamer, and keep the ball down in the zones by varying the release point, and understanding what that does to your aim. Also, with curveballs, I ALWAYS release late, so I get more downward snap on the ball, and if I miss, I miss in the dirt...

Next, when you practice, try pushing the stick up nice and easy, really focusing on the tempo of pulling the stick back, and then pushing forward with a nice easy cadence. Now, really push that stick forward and see the mph difference on the fastballs, and watch what it does to your curveballs.

Once you figure out the dynamics of the actual pitching mechanism, you will be amazed at just how much you can tweak and work the ball, and it allows you to control a lot more of this than you might expect.


~syf

[The Blargh]

Re: Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

Go to the Pitching Practice sessions and practice your release, aim, and stick speed towards the target.

The closer you get to hitting the perfect release point, the more accurately the stick's representation of your aim is. Meaning, if you release the ball in the correct spot, you will be more accurate with where you are trying to aim the ball.... Hmm... Now there is an interesting concept.

You're right, but even when just practicing the fastball, the timing is different, and not just between the windup and the stretch. I can still even nail the timing (meter yellows), and the aim is still pretty far off, although not as far.

Again, I'm not asking for the pitching to be made more precise or for the game to be easier -- that would be unrealistic, and as someone who has pitched competitively, I appreciate the overall difficulty of hitting one's spots. I just wish the meter itself would be an accurate representation of where I'm aiming so that I can get some feedback on my practice, rather than trying to guess whether I missed the spot because my aim on the analog stick was terrible, or because the pitcher missed his CTRL or BB/9 check.

Once you get the aim mechanism down with regards to the release point, now you can start working the stick left and right and put some movement on the ball on purpose. You can get the ball to tail in, out, and you can use the stick to really dial in the 2-seamer, and keep the ball down in the zones by varying the release point, and understanding what that does to your aim. Also, with curveballs, I ALWAYS release late, so I get more downward snap on the ball, and if I miss, I miss in the dirt...

Next, when you practice, try pushing the stick up nice and easy, really focusing on the tempo of pulling the stick back, and then pushing forward with a nice easy cadence. Now, really push that stick forward and see the mph difference on the fastballs, and watch what it does to your curveballs.

Once you figure out the dynamics of the actual pitching mechanism, you will be amazed at just how much you can tweak and work the ball, and it allows you to control a lot more of this than you might expect.


~syf

I have noticed this, and it's why I continue to play with the analog controls even when they drive me to a point of controller-tossing frustration! Really, despite my frustration, I'm impressed with the implementation of the analog controls. I just wish the meter was actual feedback for things I'm doing on my end, and that the stat calculations happened behind the scene so that I could practice my location and timing without wondering if I pushed the stick to the wrong place (especially when it looks/feels like I pushed it to the right place) or if it's the pitcher's bad CTRL or BB/9 that made me miss.

Thank you for the tips, however. I really appreciate your attempt to help me out!

[bcruise]

Re: Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

Somebody posted an idea for finding the correct angle consistently that's really helped me out (I'd give them credit but I don't remember who it was!)

Basically, try to use the location of the left stick as a reference point for where to move the right one. When you aim toward the corners, the direction you're supposed to push the right stick is going to usually be on the same line that the left is being held. Just try to match that line when you push forward - it's a little easier when you have a reference point like that. It doesn't work so well for when you're aiming low or (obviously) down the middle, but it's definitely helped me hit left and right better.

I have the problem of nearly always underestimating how far to move the stick, so as teamyourmom mentioned, I try to overexaggerate the left/right movement so that if I miss, I miss off the plate. So basically I'm using that left stick position as the reference, and then adjusting a bit more to allow for missing safely. For me at least, that works pretty well.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

Here's a few tips and tidbits:

1. You don't need to pull all the way back on the right stick for the down stroke. Half way works just fine. This will lessen the distance for the follow through and made an enormous difference for me.

2. When aiming anywhere other than 12 o'clock, try positioning your thumb at 5 o'clock when your end point 10 or 11 o'clock...and and 8 o'clock for a 2 o'clock upstroke. Keeping your thumb dead center on 'off dead center' pitch locations is murder for me.

3. You don't need to constantly go hard with the upstroke. Easy does it. Utilize the harder break/velocity stuff a touch less.

4. SCEA mentioned a hidden sensitivity slider with the analog mechanic, to ensure that folks can't simply master it entirely. In other words, no matter how good you are, you will still see the lining up stuff do some 'odd' things in relation to your input from time to time (like right when you aim left, for instance...as I understand it).

5. Raising user consistency, if all else fails, seems to increase the margin of error on the upstroke, and vice versa for lowering it.

[stealyerface]

Re: Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

Okay, I am confused.

Let's say you are going to throw a 2-seam fastball to the outside corner on a right handed batter, and you are using a right handed pitcher.

I choose my 2-seamer, and I use the Left Stick to aim my cursor to the outside edge of the plate, and for this pitch, I want it just under the knees.

Atop the pitching mechanism, the little ball indicator moves to the left hash mark that indicates the outside edge of the plate. Now, I realize that I am going to be throwing a 2-seamer, and assuming I am not going to really push forward hard on the stick, I am going to see a little tailing action back towards the plate because of the nature of that pitch.

So, In my head, in order for me to hit the little ball marker indicator on the top of the meter, I need to push the R-stick from the 6 o'clock position to the 10-11 o'clock position in order to hit the target perfectly... Ahh, but see, I realize that with the tailing action of the ball, if I do not hit that target just right, or if I get it right on the money, I run the risk of that ball tailing back right over the plate, and playing on HOF, that is pretty much a ticket to Yardsville.

So, with that in mind, I try to aim the R-stick just to the left of the target on top of the meter, so that the edge of the cursor ends up touching the edge of the target. This way, assuming my release was good, the ball starts just to the left of the plate's edge, and then tails back over the outer black, and the batter might chase it, or the variable umpire calls get me that Maddux-esque strike that he was famous for.

I have read where guys aim their cursor over to the left and the right, and do not realize that you have to follow the target indicator atop the meter in order for the ball to actually go to the target. I have read guys on here talk of how the Analog pitching is broken because they aim the cursor to the left, pull the stick back, go right straight up to 12 o'clock, and the ball goes right down the middle and gets crushed.

Uhh, yeah, that is because you have to follow the aiming marker with your R-stick motion to make it go where you are aiming. I am not saying that in this instance that is what is going on, but you have to understand what the pitch will do and what kind of pitch you are throwing.

If you are going to throw a slider as a right handed pitcher to a lefty, and you pull straight back, and push straight up to 12 o'clock, there is a pretty good chance you are going to hit the left handed batter. You need to pitch the ball with the understanding of where the pitch will go, and where you need to start the ball out.

When you throw a curveball in real life, you release the ball at the ear flap of the righthanded batter. At least that is where I did. meaning, if you threw a fastball, you would dot the guy in the head. So in the game, if you are going to throw a curveball, you need to aim the R-stick to the right of where you want the ball to end up, and at the very least you MUST follow the target as indicated by the L-stick- with the R-stick movement that mimics that ending target area.

I can tell you that I have the game setting for HOF, and have Accuracy and Consistency both set at 0, so that I get a few balls in there, and can walk some guys. I think if anything, the Analog is too accurate, but that is because I believe I am pitching with the stick(s) the was the game was intended.

Give that a shot, and see how you make out.
~syf

[The Blargh]

Re: Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

@syf:

I can see how my post was a bit confusing.

I'm aiming the pitch with the left stick, then pulling back about halfway-ish on the right before pushing forward towards where I want the ball to go, not 12 o'clock. So if I'm trying to backdoor a curve, I set the cursor where the arrows indicating the movement of the curve barely go over the plate, then do the right stick part aimed at where the target circle is on the meter (outside).

One of two things happens at that point (assuming I have proper timing, I know that missing timing causes you to be really wild):

1. The pitch stays way outside, like I was throwing it away.
2. The pitch comes in like I aimed at the outer third of the plate, causing the break to put it over the middle
3. It works as advertised.

Now, I don't have a problem with the relative rate of these three occurrences -- painting the corner with a backdoor breaking ball is exceedingly difficult. I know this from experience!

My issue is that if push the analog stick to the same (proper) location 3x in a row, the meter will show three different places. I think the meter should be showing my aim being at the same spot all three times, even if the pitch ends up in each of the three areas I described above.

I'm not unhappy with the fact that I can't paint the outside corner with a hammer 10 times out of 10, or even 2 or 3 times out of 10. I get frustrated because I can't tell whether I missed because of a stick error (i.e.: I went too far right/didn't go far enough right), or because the game adjusted my pitch as a representation of the difficulty of it relative to my pitcher's stats.

What it comes down to is that as far as I can tell, the meter only tells me when my timing is correct (the yellow lines), and where the ball ends up on the meter isn't actually my aim with the right stick, but the game-adjusted location.

It's an interface gripe, not a game gripe.

To try to give a fuller explanation...

I know where I've told the pitch I want to go with the left stick, because I have a little icon there to move around the strike zone. Now I know that my pitcher is aiming for that area, and that sets the target circle on the meter so I know what angle to move the right stick forward at.

I know if my release point is good or not because the meter gives me feedback in the form of the boundary lines on the meter turning yellow/flashing.

I don't know if I've pushed my stick forward at the correct angle towards the target circle because the ball location on the meter isn't always a proper representation of my stick movement, and that's the frustrating part. I don't care if the pitch actually ends up where the ball on the meter says it will because of the difficulty of the pitch or a check against the player's skills failing -- I just want to know that I've got the part I can do right (or wrong).

Basically, since there's not a setting to calibrate the stick, I get no feedback on the stick work, except that it seems to me that if I do the same movement on the same patch three times, I'm more likely to end up with ball in the meter ending up in three different locations than not, and I have no way to tell if it's my aim with the analog stick (which seems the same to me each three throws) or the player's stats that's causing me to fail, which leaves me nothing to practice except aim for the general area and hope for the best.

That's worked so far, but to me, at least, it's unsatisfying since I get no feedback from the game on what to practice, or if it was even a mistake in my aim at all that caused the miss rather than the game's realism factor kicking in to make me miss a few perfect pitches.

[Pielet]

Re: Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

Its easier to go straight down, turn the whole controller opposite direction of where you want to go, then push straight up.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

To the OP,

If you hit the ball indicator at the top of the meter, than you should get an indication telling you that your upstroke was perfect (or relatively perfect) with a flashing from the mechanic.

If then, your pitch isn't where you wanted, it still could boil down to a few things.

I always hold my left stick placement up until the ball reaches the plate. I know that some people say that the ball indicator doesn't reset (to down the middle) once the pitch is executed, but I ALWAYS hold it in place just to be sure.

It could also have to do with ratings or the sensitivity slider. But, if you're pitching with a control artist, and you get the flash from a well executed upstroke, than this isn't likely the cause (unless you're confidence or stamina are down).

I use analog on HOF, and I don't have this problem at all. Especially fastball, if I hit my up stroke, it's going in the approximate location you wanted.

Now, curves are a COMPLETELY different story. You need to time your upstroke and downstroke perfectly to even think about flirting with your desired location. The game punishes you for missing either of these on curves. You get much more breathing room with both strokes (especially down) with fastballs. Even with the downstroke missing, and a perfect upstroke, if you miss the line on the down gesture with a curve, you are not going to hit you spot (or even be CLOSE to it), most likely.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

Wait, you're supposed to press UP on the right stick and then DOWN? I've been doing DOWN and then up toward the circular thing.....

Also, I'm sick of having random pitches where the CPU just decides I'm not going to execute a good pitch. I'm sorry, I dont agree with "hidden sensitivity sliders to make sure you don't master" the control. It's so wonky, it's impossible to master anyway.

I'll have to dig up Ramone's quote again. I don't want to put words in SCEA's mouth.

And it is DOWN, UP.

Did I say UP, DOWN???

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Frustration with analog pitching feedback...

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...d.php?t=472368

I just bumped it. I've been calling it 'secret' sensitivity. That's not correct.

Ramone described here, on page one.