Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

[catcatch22]

Did Reggie White go against a "generic" offensive line every game in the NFL?

No, but he does in APF 2K8, because no one online uses "legend" offensive linemen. Why don't people use legend OL? Because a "generic" OL can hold "gold" Reggie White to 2 - 3 sacks a game.

A gold WR will run by a "generic" CB every play in APF 2K8.

But a gold DE like Reggie White beats a generic OL maybe two or three times a game if you're lucky.

Reggie White should average 15 sacks a game against a generic offensive line.

You did not account for stamina. 2k gave defensive lineman no stamina, but all their moves are charged moves which is heavily dependent on stamina. Thus they tire out over the course of the game twice as fast as any other player in the game.

[jyoung]

In APF 2K8:

A generic LB will fail to tackle a gold RB 95% of the time.

A generic DB will fail to cover a gold WR 95% of the time.

So why, too, doesn't a generic OL fail to block a gold DE 95% of the time?

Because 2K knows gamers couldn't handle the frusturation, and so, the game is tuned to boost the generic OL where the OL succeeds at a higher rate than other generics at other positions on the field.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

Did Reggie White go against a "generic" offensive line every game in the NFL?

No, but he does in APF 2K8, because no one online uses "legend" offensive linemen. Why don't people use legend OL? Because a "generic" OL can hold "gold" Reggie White to 2 - 3 sacks a game.

A gold WR will run by a "generic" CB every play in APF 2K8.

But a gold DE like Reggie White beats a generic OL maybe two or three times a game if you're lucky.

Reggie White should average 15 sacks a game against a generic offensive line.

Did Reggie White go against generic lineman every game in the NFL ? No,he didn't, but he did, at times, go against average offensive lineman in the NFL. An average lineman in the NFL, and a generic lineman in APF are basically the same difference.

Reggie White went up against average olineman, and he didn't average 15 sacks a game. There were some games where he had no sacks where he didn't go up against a future HOFer.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

In APF 2K8:

A generic LB will fail to tackle a gold RB 95% of the time.

A generic DB will fail to cover a gold WR 95% of the time.

So why, too, doesn't a generic OL fail to block a gold DE 95% of the time?

Because 2K knows gamers couldn't handle the frusturation, and so, the game is tuned to boost the generic OL where he succeeds at a higher rate than other generics at other positions on the field.

Not true at all.

[huskerwr38]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

I think part of the problem in Madden and NCAA is the fact that wide receivers do not run their routes at a realistic speed. I've run a bunch of practice plays and have timed WR running their routes. It takes around 3 and a half seconds for a WR with 90 speed to run a simple 10 and in route with coverage. They do not get off the line quickly enough, they get jammed to easy. So the QB is just left hanging, which is why you need more time to pass. If passing was route passed then you could have a realistic pass rush.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

Isn't 2-3 sacks a game pretty good. Even though the lineman is generic in APF isn't he still suppose to be professional. Even against the biggest scrubs in the NFL a 2-3 sack day for White would be considered pretty darn good.

Not only that, but on the low end, 2 sacks a game over 16 games would give him 32 on the season; a number which no one has come close to since sacks became an official stat.

There has to be some sort of realistic baseline for even the worse players in a video game.

[Blzer]

The problem with Backbreaker before though was that the offensive line sucked. I would gladly take faster running players if we could just strengthen the line, but it just didn't seem to happen. Now the O-Line is rather impenetrable, which is a bit weirder than it was before.

The other problem was the QB just didn't react when I needed him to in order to get the throw off.

[Jarodd21]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

Here, here. I've seen plenty of realistic line play in Madden: interior linemen penetrating, elite DE's beating tackles off the edge on 3rd and long, the problem is it's the CPU that's doing it. When it's my turn to play defense, I still see my interior linemen get bowled over and my edge rushers rarely, rarely ever beat a tackle with a quick move to free himself and if he doesn't win with that first move then he never attempts a counter move; it just turns into a shoving match as the tackle pushes him upfield.

Hahaha! Yep thats excatly what happens and I have the CPUs pass block turned down to 0. Its a little better but this still happens..

[Cre8]

This is why we need default. arcade and simulation settings in sports games. Give people options, it is the best idea.

[TDenverFan]

I agree, however, EA makes it too unrealistic. Without cranking up sliders, I can have a good 5-10 seconds in the pocket. That is flat out unrealistic with anything more than a two man rush.

[poopoop]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

This article is misleading.

I don't believe the reason line play isn't realistic is because it'd make the game too difficult. I believe the reason is that EA is just unable to replicate line play in their games. Has to do with the fact that things like physics, momentum, height and weight not working correctly.

Honestly if we had a completely 100% true to life game it'd be incredibly difficult. For example think about playcalling. No one on these forums is going to outscheme/outcoach Bill Belichick so the Patriots would be near impossible to beat. That's not the reason the CPU's playcalling logic makes no sense. EA isn't saying to themselves, "Hey we don't wanna make the game too difficult so let's make the CPU call a HB draw on 4th and 11!"

At least I hope not...

EA def has motivation to make to make the game accessible to as many people as possible, but I don't think that should be used as a blanket excuse for their inability to program realistic gameplay.

[Other Guy]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

As mentioned, this is a problem that should be an easy fix with difficulty adjustments and sliders. Players who want a real NFL experience should only get 2 to 3 seconds to throw, while players who aren't that good (younger players) should be able to lower the difficulty and get more time to operate in the pocket.

[kc10785]

Point blank you can't talk about o-line play until you fix the WR's route running and lead pass system. That has to be fix to counter the the realistic pass rush. It takes to long for Wr's to get off the line what's the point of going through your reads if you reach 4 secs in the pocket and none of your Wr finish there route.

[slideez]

The DL animations in 2k8 are long and the QB drops are too quick and but the time the DL's are able to disengage from the OL the the WR has completed his route and the ball has left the QB's hand....so things arent tuned to make the DL average...longer animations make it harder for proper DL play in APF....they just went a little to overboard in trying to portray the skill in of DL's in football.....but try to run 3 step slant routes in the game with pass blocking OL's in that game the a Gold DT will be on you in less than a sec.

[RGiles36]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

I'm surprised so many are rather dismissive of this article...I think there are some valid points made.

I think back no further to when NCAA 11 was out and the Madden 11 demo debuted. The locomotion in Madden was tuned to be tighter, heavier, and more realistic than that of NCAAs. But in a shock to me, people favored the looser NCAA locomotion. I'm not sure how they compare today after several patches, but my point is not to dismiss this article as if to say people want ALL realism ALL the time.