Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

[Skyboxer]

"Why are video game developers keeping the four-man pass rush from being the game-changing entity that it can be in real life?

To put it simply, because the people buying football video games are not NFL quarterbacks"

BS...

The reason is they don't know how. Has zero to do with who's playing the game.
This isn't just with line blocking either, but a lot of areas in the game. That's why more times than not a "feature" is implemented to do nothing more than cover up bad AI programming.

The real question is will we ever get a game that actually moves the genre forward.

[speedkills]

APF 2K8 managed to to get line play down just fine ... 4 YEARS AGO.

[seriousluboy83]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

while i agree with the message of the thread i want to introduce two solutions...get rid of the "throw out of sacks" crap and slow the drop back of the qbs...this should help some with the lack of 4-man pass rush

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

while i agree with the message of the thread i want to introduce two solutions...get rid of the "throw out of sacks" crap and slow the drop back of the qbs...this should help some with the lack of 4-man pass rush

Not having the ability to throw out of sacks created horrible issues in Madden 08 and 09. As the QB, you would press to throw to a receiver and nothing would happen if a defender was baring down on you from 2-3 yards away. You would get sucked animation that would trigger as the defender closed and get the most frustrating sacks against you. The lack of control didn't serve the game well at all.

The answer isn't neutering one part of the game to make another better, IMO. Rather, the interactions should be improved. Linemen should have the awareness to time out the snap count and fly off the ball. We should have global control over how aggressively our defensive linemen rush. The interior linemen should push the pocket better, and not attempt ridiculous spin moves that only get them flattened; this would help the edge rushers. And the "quick win" animations that I see when I'm playing against the CPU should be added to my d-linemen, also.

All these are things that I have seen in NCAA 11, by the way.

[edubbs]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

^^^^^I agree.

Also, the ability to throw to receivers at anypoint in their route needs to be severly penalized. I guess this is pretty much what everyone is referring to when wanting route based passing implemented.

Right now QB's in Madden can just receive the snap and throw immediately before the d can even try to defend or react.

For head to head games, it's infuriating when my opponent can hike the ball and within a second or less, drill the ball to his TE over the middle or a RB heading to the flat literally before my d-lineman can get out of their 3 point stance.

Online this tactic is almost impossible to stop and it's silly that the d can be hamstrung soo badly by this move. It's not even a 3 step drop, it's more like a 1 step drop. And it completely eliminates any chance of getting pressure on the qb.

The QB should take a huge accuracy hit when the ball is thrown immediately after the snap, when the receiver is barely into his route. This in itself would require the QB to hold the ball longer, and atleast give the d line a chance to establish some kind of pressure.

IMO, route based passing and better animating oline/dline interactions would help mask alot of the other missing fundamentals currently not in the madden franchise.

[SA1NT401]

Great Post and spot on. I would love NCAA to just make it real anyway....Or have sliders WORK accurately so we can get the pass rush to where WE like it....


I dont care about Madden anymore. I have given up on that "Football" game officially a few years ago now.

I feel some of the issues in NCAA can be a bit more overlooked to a point since it is College and not the PROs.

[seriousluboy83]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

Not having the ability to throw out of sacks created horrible issues in Madden 08 and 09. As the QB, you would press to throw to a receiver and nothing would happen if a defender was baring down on you from 2-3 yards away. You would get sucked animation that would trigger as the defender closed and get the most frustrating sacks against you. The lack of control didn't serve the game well at all.

The answer isn't neutering one part of the game to make another better, IMO. Rather, the interactions should be improved. Linemen should have the awareness to time out the snap count and fly off the ball. We should have global control over how aggressively our defensive linemen rush. The interior linemen should push the pocket better, and not attempt ridiculous spin moves that only get them flattened; this would help the edge rushers. And the "quick win" animations that I see when I'm playing against the CPU should be added to my d-linemen, also.

All these are things that I have seen in NCAA 11, by the way.

dude believe me i hear what your saying...back in those days i was one that complained about not being able to do so...but with it here man IMO it is horrid...you have major problems from the qb perspective of the ball that neuter the pass rush...no full forced dropbacks/route based passing...dropback animation is too fast...from the defensive side...no awareness of which pass rush moves to use...no actual pass rush attribute/slider (block shed has both)...and from the offensive line...suction blocking...so i guess in a sense if they could fix all of these then throwing out of sacks would be fine

[Rayp]

apf did a great job and with edits now it can be even more realistic if you drop back with no rb to help block having a solid 3 seconds is a BLESSING.

[hickhitchell33]

It already has been, it was called NFL 2k, and All pro Football 2k

[shyvoodoo]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

There's a huge assumption that ALL gamers want "realism". And wut happens is "realism" becomes "not fun". I dont want to throw for 5000 yards a season in NCAA Football 11, but if I'm Andrew Luck or Terrelle Pryor, I wanna feel like it for at least 4 or 5 plays a game. If I'm Julius Peppers in Madden, there should be at least 3 or 4 plays where I'm unblockable.

To an extent, that's how MLB The Show and NBA 2k can be, ESPECIALLY if ur new. It's not fun to be drafted in My Player only to find out you're not only worse than Andy Rautins but ALOT worse than him. The devs at SCEA finally caved in with the RTTS points purchase, so casual gamers who wanna be A-Rod or Griffey, go ahead, go be Griffey.

I understand what your saying Cuse and I agree with you to an extent.
But thats what make these games so good because when you build your player up, it "seems" real. I think gamers want an experience that's good AND realistic. I wouldn't get a lot of enjoyment out of a game that is easy to "achieve" hall of fame status..it would be on the shelf in a matter of days...

ben
voodoo

[Sabo's corked Bat]

1-3 seconds to pass eh? thats pretty much what I get in Madden on All Pro, especially since O-lineman cant even pick up a block. this 'report' acts like if you dont get the ball away within 2.6 seconds its an instant sack. Everyone who's ever watched one football game knows thats a crock of ****. Average lines should give up double digit sacks every game? WTF? the Bengals line was most definitely average last year and we didnt do that once. Not to mention, how did last gen Maddens get this right, but six years into the new console, they are still scratching their head. Wanna see an instant 2.6 second sack? Do a play action pass.

[xbreezex]

that's why its a game and that's why business is business, lets get real. if i can get $60 a disc for something that isn't good and millions will buy, why not? you take the action and deal with out the game. you make them change.

[elgreazy1]

Just had a game with a Friend of mine in APF2K8 and he had a stacked defense. His stat line for Reggie White: 4 sacks, 7 tackles, and constant pressure. I had to shift a TE to his side AND leave in a RB to block (ie: 3 on 1) just to contain the guy. I think 2K's system works just fine.

[RazzBerry80]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

2K has done it most effectively on this generation of consoles. It can be done; question is...will we ever see it again.

This! We know it can be done. Come on Madden, you can do it.

[jyoung]

Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

The "fast" game speed was pretty good in APF 2K8 for improving the pass rush, but the problem it created was that WRs ran their routes ridiculously fast.

A gold WR in APF 2K8 already can run a 20-yard post route in 1 - 2 seconds on "normal" speed, which is part of the reason why the 4-man pass rush in the game in so ineffective.

The slow pass rush speed in APF 2K8 just isn't synched very well to the fast WRs' route running speed.