Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

[Bgamer90]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

It's not about popular opinion, in my case. Yes, he made fun NFL games, but fact is the same things missing from when he got the Lead Designer title back in 09 are still missing from the game at the current time. Show me franchise depth and deep Superstar mode...Show me the initiative to do more than Play Now. It's not about him doing a BAD job, it's just that nothing has really changed outside of improved gameplay and new menus/fonts. That said, I'm still interested in Madden 12, just as I'll be interested in 13.

Remember though, Ian did have a "3 year vision" and Madden 12 is his last Madden [which will obviously have Franchise and Superstar mode improvements (madden 12 blog outline)]. I mean, while I did think that Madden 11 would get franchise improvements, I also on the other hand knew that it was going to take more than 1 game to get Madden on the level of other sports games this gen.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

Yeah Josh was the lead deigner for Head Coach 09.

[Hooe]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

What good would it be to hate/bash Madden just to do so?

That's a really good question.

Most people on here are not 10 year olds. However, many folks are just realists. They call it like they see it, that includes the good with the bad. There are plenty of folks who would rather convince themselves that the game is something it isn't so they feel better.

So my enjoyment of Madden 11, along with the vast majority of its consumer base, was artificial? Was I missing something that these people clearly smarter and more observant than I am easily saw? Forgive me if I don't believe this. I know game opinions are subjective, but there's a certain demographic on here that goes out of their way to find things to complain about in these games.

The fact is that Madden is still light years behind the other sports games. Many things that have been broken for years are still completely broken, and anything new that was added was simply left incomplete and unpolished.

"Completely broken" is up to interpretation. I don't see a game that frequently crashes, I don't see a game with features that don't work, I don't see a game that is horribly unbalanced. "Completely broken" is not what Madden is.

I will give you that Madden is a very shallow game with regard to off-the-field offline modes. That is my biggest complaint with the series right now. My point is some people take their points of criticism with the game way too far.

[HealyMonster]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

well, things like these are bound to happen, its isnt like Ian was going to work there forever. Id say he was around for a long time there compared to some of the other representatives that have come and gone over the years. Hard to imagine going from Madden to making Facebook games, I know its all about family and $$ and quality of life and not all about Madden and the big time, but the fact that they are making this choice raises my ears to whats going on behind the scenes at Tiburon

[RedZoneD25]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

Remember though, Ian did have a "3 year vision" and Madden 12 is his last Madden [which will obviously have Franchise and Superstar mode improvements (madden 12 blog outline)]. I mean, while I did think that Madden 11 would have franchise improvements, I also on the other hand knew that it was going to take more than 1 game to get Madden on the level of other sports games this gen.

Absolutely. I never thought it would be an instant transformation either. It's not even Ian's fault that those things were missing, they were missing long before he got the lead gig too....but I'm still beyond dumbfounded there was literally minimal effort put on the offline modes last year. Especially when you take the guys who made such a beast of a franchise game in HC09 and put them on MUT.

My main issue with Madden is not it being a "bad" game, because it isn't. As CHooe said, it's just shallow.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

If Josh and Donny stays.....one of those two going to be the new creative director. IMO Josh is the front runner because he had held that title before in other games.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

Tell me about it. You would think, with something as technical as developing video games, that you'd need a degree in a related field, or at least some sort of experience that demonstrates your competency. EA is a huge company, and Madden is it's flagship title. You would think a degree in a related field is a given, and that it would be impossible to get your foot in the door as a game tester. Maybe those people, with degrees and/or experience, command higher salaries, and it's kinda hard to pay top dollar when you've already committed to spending over a half a billion dollars on licensing fees.

You are hanging on this degree thing far too much. I'm a software engineer at a large company. There are many folks I work with here who are brilliant programmers and do not have a college degree. I also went to college with some guys who were brilliant and left college because they were recruited by companies to work for them immediately for large amounts of cash. I'm not saying the guy was great at his job or bad at it, but whether or not he had a degree doesn't make him any less capable.

[Bgamer90]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

Tell me about it. You would think, with something as technical as developing video games, that you'd need a degree in a related field, or at least some sort of experience that demonstrates your competency. EA is a huge company, and Madden is it's flagship title. You would think a degree in a related field is a given, and that it would be impossible to get your foot in the door as a game tester. Maybe those people, with degrees and/or experience, command higher salaries, and it's kinda hard to pay top dollar when you've already committed to spending over a half a billion dollars on licensing fees.

FYI, game design degrees are pretty new.

I'm pretty sure that the people with the most experience in game programming/design are the ones who don't have a degree in game design.

I mean a degree is only as good as what you learned to get it. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the game designing degrees out there are for teaching ones how to make more simple/XBLA oriented games.

[Hooe]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

Tell me about it. You would think, with something as technical as developing video games, that you'd need a degree in a related field, or at least some sort of experience that demonstrates your competency. EA is a huge company, and Madden is it's flagship title. You would think a degree in a related field is a given, and that it would be impossible to get your foot in the door as a game tester. Maybe those people, with degrees and/or experience, command higher salaries, and it's kinda hard to pay top dollar when you've already committed to spending over a half a billion dollars on licensing fees.

Do you honestly believe that people without computer programming education of some kind were and are spending the majority of the time working with the Madden code base and making the game work?

[Bgamer90]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

My main issue with Madden is not it being a "bad" game, because it isn't. As CHooe said, it's just shallow.

Definitely understand where you are coming from considering the fact that I feel the same way.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

That's a really good question.



So my enjoyment of Madden 11, along with the vast majority of its consumer base, was artificial? Was I missing something that these people clearly smarter and more observant than I am easily saw? Forgive me if I don't believe this. I know game opinions are subjective, but there's a certain demographic on here that goes out of their way to find things to complain about in these games.



"Completely broken" is up to interpretation. I don't see a game that frequently crashes, I don't see a game with features that don't work, I don't see a game that is horribly unbalanced. "Completely broken" is not what Madden is.

I will give you that Madden is a very shallow game with regard to off-the-field offline modes. That is my biggest complaint with the series right now. My point is some people take their points of criticism with the game way too far.

I don't recall anything in my post singling out you or anyone else having "artificial enjoyment" of Madden. You are right... being broken is up to interpretation. When I play a game and I frequently see fumbles being awarded to the wrong team, I see a fumbles recovered by the offense after their QB was sacked and being awarded a first down. I still don't ever see a pass interference call, even with the sliders cranked all the way up. I see an online franchise mode that doesn't include any elements of franchise, like trade logic, salary management or front office management. I see no sliders for online games or online franchise. I can call a screen pass and scramble forever and then throw the ball without getting called for ineligible man down field because that penalty doesn't exist in the game. When I see a gang tackle initiating, I can't come in and make a hit on the player being tackled, instead my defender just falls over like a bowling pin. When I go to challenge a play (if it even allows me to challenge it) it doesn't even give me the right options to challenge. When I have a player who is taken off the field on the cart, I love seeing him on the exercise bike or talking to my head coach in the next cut scene. I love listening to Chris Collinsworth call Gus Tom.

To some, these things aren't broken. To someone like myself, they are broken, and have been for a long time. Especially when I have seen them implemented in other games and they worked great. To each their own.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

It's not about popular opinion, in my case. Yes, he made fun NFL games, but fact is the same things missing from when he got the Lead Designer title back in 09 are still missing from the game at the current time. Show me franchise depth and deep Superstar mode...Show me the initiative to do more than Play Now. It's not about him doing a BAD job, it's just that nothing has really changed outside of improved gameplay and new menus/fonts. That said, I'm still interested in Madden 12, just as I'll be interested in 13.

Agree 100%. Ian's appeal with some of the pro Ian people stems from his interaction; it's that simple. That type of interaction was unprecedented. He was still basically full of hype, and he mis-led us in many ways.

The ratings, supposedly, were being stretched to make elite players standout like never before in M10. When the game shipped we had punters and kickers holding their own on the offensive line. We were supposed to get sideline catches and custom stadium sounds in M10, but they showed up in Madden 11. We were supposed to get a more in-depth franchise mode in M10, and we haven't even gotten in yet.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

Do you honestly believe that people without computer programming education of some kind were and are spending the majority of the time working with the Madden code base and making the game work?

I don't know, I don't work in that studio. I only know what the teams members said about their own credentials, and most of them stated that they didn't have a degree in a related field.

[spit_bubble]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

Meh. Doesn't surprise me.

Mr. Cummings seemed dedicated to putting out a game for the hardcore. My guess is the environment at EA wasn't conducive for that.

Gotta have the personnel match the scheme, or else it just ain't gonna work.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

FYI, game design degrees are pretty new.

I'm pretty sure that the people with the most experience in game programming/design are the ones who don't have a degree in game design.

I mean a degree is only as good as what you learned to get it. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the game designing degrees out there are for teaching ones how to make more simple/XBLA oriented games.

Computer science or software engineering degrees aren't new. Ian started as a game tester, and majored in finance while at college.