Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

[coogrfan]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

Not having a dig at you, but that's what the PS3 and X360 supposedly are....next-gen. Indeed they are. Look at Backbreaker's physics. That's this gen, EA could easily push the envelope but doesn't.

Asking EA to scrap a functional (if unspectacular) football engine for unproven technology in the wake of the NBA Elite fiasco seems a tad unrealistic, imo.

[PGaither84]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

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<iframe title="YouTube video player" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MIyEa9-2DMY" allowfullscreen="" width="640" frameborder="0" height="390"></iframe>

It's obvious to me that when both games are in motion that they aren't the same. There's no comparison with regard to the player interactions in general; for example, the PS2-era games didn't have a concept of a three-person interaction and branching animations, and did not utilize the new locomotion mechanic which completely changed how players move on the field.

It's obvious to me, having played both games, that they play differently. The last-gen games to me are no longer fun due to the advances EA has made this generation.

It's obvious to me that EA actually did completely rebuild their game on the field. The two games are similar in that they are both football and they both share the button-passing mechanic.

If you are specifically talking about a comparison between Franchise modes, the last-gen still has more depth, but that wasn't what you were comparing via your screenshots.

Set Madden 11 to Fast or Very Fast and in a lot of ways you have last gen Madden iterations on the field. Madden is still very much a game dot dots crashing into each other, and it feels like it.

After having fun playing some OTP with my friends these past few weeks, i went back and played some 2k8 because it does a far better job or representing and respecting football.

[Smoke6]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

Hey smoke6 can you do a close up of madden 11 like you did madden6?(I think you are right it did take a step back.)

Now for the engine they started this gen with...





Now so you dont think im bias or whatever, here are some gameplay vids of both games...

Madden 06, make sure you listen to the guy in the video, he makes some good points.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWUclELibqQ

Madden 11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG-RZL7d6VQ

Now please for the love of everything great, how is it that you guys easily forget where madden has been and where its going while trying to argue down people who been playing this game for over 20yrs.

With each new gen, our expectations get higher, EA's seem to stay the same gameplay wise while there financial outlook is boosted yr to yr. They dont understand that it goes hand in hand now days.

[Hooe]

Re: Ian Cummings is out

Also, I find it hard to believe that a start up company designing facebook games pays more than Tiburon. Could I be wrong ? Yeah, but that just seems fishy to me.

One of the big topics at GDC this year was the explosion of social games, which came out of nowhere and now have more total players than traditional console games do. They face their own set of problems, but there's a large amount of money to be made in that area.

[Smoke6]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

Asking EA to scrap a functional (if unspectacular) football engine for unproven technology in the wake of the NBA Elite fiasco seems a tad unrealistic, imo.

Read my post above this one and please refer to madden 06-07 on 360 and PS3.

Check your madden history bro, it was just a few years ago they scrapped that engine for who know why, and gave us there Xbox engine in HD with even more restrictions.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

One more time guys.... The devs have a direction or idea for the game, they take it to EA Management. Management says no, that's not important, you need to put this in the game instead (example: a content item that's download purchase only). Everyone can blame the devs til they are blue in the face, but those that do obviously haven't actually worked in a professional setting.

I'm sure money had something to do with Ian leaving, but I guarantee a huge part was him and his staff being handcuffed by management and the amount of idiot junk that spews out of peoples mouths on sites like this. His response was always "we are trying", a lot of people realize when he says that it doesn't mean we are trying to figure out how to do it, but most likely "we are trying to get this put into the game but the people at the top don't feel its important".

His job EA also to spit the company line, did you really think he would come out every year and say "can't do it, management doesn't care what you want"? Cmon thats breach of contract and opens him up to a lawsuit... That is after they throw him out the door. Believe it or not, but developers don't have free reign over what the produce, every action is strictly monitored by their bosses to maximize the profit. They are making an absolute killing on MUT, much more than the sales would have netted if the 10% of you who didn't purchase the game would have went out and bought a copy.

As far as everyone who says this lawsuit will change things... The lawsuit will fail miserably, probably won't make it last preliminary hearings. Anyone can file a lawsuit, that doesn't mean it will go anywhere.

I'm sorry, but I don't actually buy the explanation that Ian wasn't happy with the direction Madden was going. First of all, he's leaving to develop facebook games. There can't be much depth to that. Leaving Madden, to develop facebook games, because EA wants to cater to the casual crowd seem idiotic to me. Second, Ian clearly made attempts make the game more sim: They added Pro-Tak, slowed the game down, made the drop backs, of the QB, more realistic, and, among other things, they stretched the ratings to further separate the elite from the average.

The problem was that Pro-Tak looked like a group hug; the speed, which was the default speed online, was too slow, and the stretched ratings were useless because ratings, especially in the trenches, meant absolutely nothing. Games that were four and seven years old, respectively, were still head and shoulders above anything that Ian and company were able to produce. The dev team obviously had the freedom steer the game in the direction that sim gamers wanted, but it's a real possibility that this team simply wasn't talented enough to pull it off. Maybe Ian did leave for the money; however, I find it hard to believe that a start up company, making facebook games, pays more than EA Tiburon. Maybe Ian gave up, or maybe Tiburon gave up on him. We'll never know.

One of the big topics at GDC this year was the explosion of social games, which came out of nowhere and now have more total players than traditional console games do. They face their own set of problems, but there's a large amount of money to be made in that area.

That's a good point, but EA and Tiburon are well established companies. You would think they pay top dollar, but who knows.

[Smoke6]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

I'm sorry, but I don't actually buy the explanation that Ian wasn't happy with the direction Madden was going. First of all, he's leaving to develop facebook games. There can't be much depth to that. Leaving Madden, to develop facebook games, because EA wants to cater to the casual crowd seem idiotic to me. Second, Ian clearly made attempts make the game more sim: They added Pro-Tak, slowed the game down, made the drop backs, of the QB, more realistic, and, among other things, they stretched the ratings to further separate the elite from the average.

The problem was that Pro-Tak looked like a group hug; the speed, which was the default speed online, was too slow, and the stretched ratings were useless because ratings, especially in the trenches, meant absolutely nothing. Games that were four and seven years old, respectively, were still head and shoulders above anything that Ian and company were able to produce. The dev team obviously had the freedom steer the game in the direction that sim gamers wanted, but it's a real possibility that this team simply wasn't talented enough to pull it off. Maybe Ian did leave for the money; however, I find it hard to believe that a start up company, making facebook games, pays more than EA Tiburon. Maybe Ian gave up, or maybe Tiburon gave up on him. We'll never know.

Besides the bolded being false as SPEED was the overall factor once again, I can see him leaving because wanted to limit his creativeness and innovation with this game, if thats what it was. people do it all the time when they feel they're talents or ambitions are being held back for either money or whatever.

[coogrfan]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

Read my post above this one and please refer to madden 06-07 on 360 and PS3.

Check your madden history bro, it was just a few years ago they scrapped that engine for who know why, and gave us there Xbox engine in HD with even more restrictions.

If I understand you, you're claiming Madden 09-11 (NG) are ported versions of the ps2/xbox game with graphical updates.

If that is what you're saying, my response would be to say that is complete and utter nonsense. If, otoh, I misunderstood you, please accept my apologies.

[ryan36]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

Glad someone else feels the same way, just see my post on the page before this. Ian was great with the community, so of course people aren't gonna like that he's gone. But, he never contributed that much to the actual game

I don't think you can say that about any dev that puts in 60hrs a week on a flagship title.

I'm very happy to hear this. I feel this job was more then Ian Cummings could handle. Don't get me wrong, he's a great guy but the series has been going sideway at best since he took over.

I disagree. It's decidedly been going toward more sim, year in and year out. You can question the implementation, but I don't think this is anywhere NEAR the same vision.

HOnestly, i couldnt care less about what happens to their "football" title.....Madden is forever dead to me.

If this was true, you wouldn't post here. You obviously care, you're in this forum... that's the definition of care.

I find it hard to believe that a start up company, making facebook games, pays more than EA Tiburon. Maybe Ian gave up, or maybe Tiburon gave up on him. We'll never know.



That's a good point, but EA and Tiburon are well established companies. You would think they pay top dollar, but who knows.

I doubt EA gave up on him, they kept coming up with "promotions" via the title for him. My guess is, they liked him a lot. As to your second point, maybe he gets stock options or something, or maybe it's less money but more fun. He can be less famous now.

And everyone, stop w/the 2k comparisons.

[Hooe]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

The problem was that Pro-Tak looked like a group hug; the speed, which was the default speed online, was too slow, and the stretched ratings were useless because ratings, especially in the trenches, meant absolutely nothing.

The Pro-Tak in Madden 10 was especially prone to the "group hugs", haha, but it still added a significant something to the game, IMO.

Wasn't game speed adjustable if one played any mode but ranked online? I enjoy the slower game speed.

I remember seeing a really intelligent post on here about that whole ratings assertion in that the apparent uselessness of the ratings is moreso a function of the game sliders than ratings. I personally have never had problems differentiating between good and bad linemen in my time with M10 and M11, though admittedly I've never tried to put kickers and quarterbacks on the line because that thought always struck me as kind of silly and pointless.

That's a good point, but EA and Tiburon are well established companies. You would think they pay top dollar, but who knows.

If he indeed left for a startup, presumably the risk he's taking is trading relative financial stability at EA for the chance to be one of the top people on the ground floor of this new company, should it succeed and take off. This could be worth more money than anything Tiburon could offer, and obviously he'd have more creative freedom as he will no longer be limited to making only football games.

[Segagendude]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

Just hire the Man himself-----Mr. John Madden-------the game's namesake-------to be the new creative director.

He's got nothing else going on right now......and he can go with what he knows is football, and if they (the suits) don't like it, he can tell em to "stick it". Afterall, this was originally HIS idea!

[TreFacTor]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

I'm sorry, but I don't actually buy the explanation that Ian wasn't happy with the direction Madden was going. First of all, he's leaving to develop facebook games. There can't be much depth to that. Leaving Madden, to develop facebook games, because EA wants to cater to the casual crowd seem idiotic to me. Second, Ian clearly made attempts make the game more sim: They added Pro-Tak, slowed the game down, made the drop backs, of the QB, more realistic, and, among other things, they stretched the ratings to further separate the elite from the average.

The problem was that Pro-Tak looked like a group hug; the speed, which was the default speed online, was too slow, and the stretched ratings were useless because ratings, especially in the trenches, meant absolutely nothing. Games that were four and seven years old, respectively, were still head and shoulders above anything that Ian and company were able to produce. The dev team obviously had the freedom steer the game in the direction that sim gamers wanted, but it's a real possibility that this team simply wasn't talented enough to pull it off. Maybe Ian did leave for the money; however, I find it hard to believe that a start up company, making facebook games, pays more than EA Tiburon. Maybe Ian gave up, or maybe Tiburon gave up on him. We'll never know.



That's a good point, but EA and Tiburon are well established companies. You would think they pay top dollar, but who knows.

Don't forget that Ea has their own Playfish social game division now so he could have easily stayed with the company and simply took another position. Amicable splits usually means a person is fired but as stated, we may never know.

[jeremym480]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

Just hire the Man himself-----Mr. John Madden-------the game's namesake-------to be the new creative director.

He's got nothing else going on right now......and he can go with what he knows is football, and if they (the suits) don't like it, he can tell em to "stick it". Afterall, this was originally HIS idea!

That's be awesome... I can see it now.

Dear Mr. Madden,

If you could add a a working IR, player moral, better scouting and a more immersion NFL Draft to offline franchise Madden 13 I will hand deliver you my finest Turdurken. Oh and while your at it please add all of this to online franchise too.

Regards,
jeremym480


-------------------
Dear jeremym480,

Boom. Done. Where's my Turdurken?

Signed,
J. Madden

[Hooe]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

Don't forget that Ea has their own Playfish social game division now so he could have easily stayed with the company and simply took another position. Amicable splits usually means a person is fired but as stated, we may never know.

This doesn't consider the possibility that maybe he left on his own accord to be his own boss and work on games he designs at this new startup. He wouldn't be able to do that at Playfish.

And how is getting fired an "amicable" split, in any capacity?

[TreFacTor]

Re: Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

This doesn't consider the possibility that maybe he left on his own accord to be his own boss and work on games he designs at this new startup. He wouldn't be able to do that at Playfish.

And how is getting fired an "amicable" split, in any capacity?

Often times companies will allow high profile, highly paid employees to resign even though they have been fired. There hasn't been any smoke from either camp so all is quite and seems peaceful....amicable=without serious disagreement or ranco : characterized by friendly goodwill : peaceable