NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

[PaperBoyx703]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

Animation based =/= physics based. It just takes a number if variables, and with those, spits out a certain animation.

I'm on my phone so I can't double quote, but to the guy who asked abou a true physics based system: have you ever played Backbreaker? It may not have been a great game but it wasn't because of it's tackling system. That was superb and not based on animations.

"Backbreaker relies on the Euphoria engine, a real time animation engine developed by NaturalMotion that has been used in games such as Grand Theft Auto IV, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, and Red Dead Redemption.[4] This allows animations for tackles and blocking to be created on the spot instead of using a limited set of canned animations.[2] Due to this, developers pushed to advertise that "no two tackles are the same" in an attempt to draw players to what they called a more physically realistic football game than its competitors.[2] The physics system was rated well by the reviewers, who commented that the integration of realistic physics created a very life-like interaction between the players on the field.[3][5] " this is taken from Wiki.

It is physics "based". This is exactly what EA devs are doing right now...a tackle animation//blocking animation will not begin "until contact" no more predetermined or "canned" animations. So there were always built in animations for tackles upon contact and not weight and force like people claimed BB was doing. I watched a 10 min gameplay of Backbreaker and the OL and DL interaction is the same as what EA is offering now. I watched one portion where even the OL "bumped" or established contact the DL(a DT) just shot by him like nothing even happened so pretty much even BB engine wasn't top notch, so i wouldnt expect the same for EA's new system. The only difference I see was that BB had much more "Phsyical Hit Animations" than EA's softer hits, thats why it seemed like weight and force blew people up. In BB almost every hit was a crash n bash animation which was cool. Now EA said they are doing it and I fully expect to see something similar to the first BB game( not sure if 2 came out yet) To wrap it all in a nut shell, all of these Games use Animations, its just BB used real time or "at the point of contact" animations First

Im expecting great things in 12 and 13//14 and so on with developing those real time or contact animations.

[UMCanes93]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

"Backbreaker relies on the Euphoria engine, a real time animation engine developed by NaturalMotion that has been used in games such as Grand Theft Auto IV, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, and Red Dead Redemption.[4] This allows animations for tackles and blocking to be created on the spot instead of using a limited set of canned animations.[2] Due to this, developers pushed to advertise that "no two tackles are the same" in an attempt to draw players to what they called a more physically realistic football game than its competitors.[2] The physics system was rated well by the reviewers, who commented that the integration of realistic physics created a very life-like interaction between the players on the field.[3][5] " this is taken from Wiki.

It is physics "based". This is exactly what EA devs are doing right now...a tackle animation//blocking animation will not begin "until contact" no more predetermined or "canned" animations. So there were always built in animations for tackles upon contact and not weight and force like people claimed BB was doing. I watched a 10 min gameplay of Backbreaker and the OL and DL interaction is the same as what EA is offering now. I watched one portion where even the OL "bumped" or established contact the DL(a DT) just shot by him like nothing even happened so pretty much even BB engine wasn't top notch, so i wouldnt expect the same for EA's. The only difference I see was that BB had much more "Phsyical Hit Animations" than EA's softer his, thats why it seemed like weight and force blew people up. In BB almost every hit was a crash n bash animation which was cool. Now EA said they are doing it and I fully expect to see something similar to the first BB game( not sure if 2 came out yet) To wrap it all in a nut shell, all of these Games use Animations, its just BB used real time or "at the point of contact" animations First

Im expecting great things in 12 and 13//14 and so on with developing those real time or contact animations.

You're terrible wrong. Backbreaker had no canned animations. NCAA will.

[PaperBoyx703]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

You're terrible wrong. Backbreaker had no canned animations. NCAA will.

Maybe you should read it again, because its Obvious you didnt read it right. I said EA wouldnt have anymore predetermined or "canned" animations. They are working on the real time animations.

The whole post was comparing what BB has to what EA is striving for with the modifications to their engine.

[UMCanes93]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

Maybe you should read it again, because its Obvious you didnt read it right. I said EA wouldnt have anymore predetermined or "canned" animations. They are working on the real time animations.

The whole post was comparing what BB has to what EA is striving for with the modifications to their engine.

NCAA Football 12 WILL have canned animations though. Are you aware of that, and saying they are working towards not having them in 13, 14, etc?

[PaperBoyx703]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

NCAA Football 12 WILL have canned animations though. Are you aware of that, and saying they are working towards not having them in 13, 14, etc?

The new tackling system, where animations begin with contact, is what being added to this years game. The same concept is being applied to both blocking and catching(hitting the catch button and WR goes automatically(sliding) into a catch sequence) to minimize suction to a point where it isn't a factor. This is year one of this new tackle system they are implementing, I dont expect or am saying it will be perfect but will be an big improvement

What canned animations do you know are going to be in there?

[UMCanes93]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

The new tackling system, where animations begin with contact, is what being added to this years game. The same concept is being applied to both blocking and catching(hitting the catch button and WR goes automatically(sliding) into a catch sequence) to minimize suction to a point where it isn't a factor. This is year one of this new tackle system they are implementing, I dont expect or am saying it will be perfect but will be an big improvement

What canned animations do you know are going to be in there?

Just watch the videos. Though the tackles DO look nice, and look much more natural than previous years, they are still canned. They're just implemented in a way that makes them look more natural. Backbreaker's whole selling point was that you'd (almost literally) NEVER see the same tackle twice. In Backbreaker, the point of contact and speed of players would have to be EXACTLY the same for the tackle to look the same. This is not the case with NCAA Football 12. While NCAA will use physics, it will use physics to decide which animation is triggered. Backbreaker used physics to create the tackles themselves. See what I'm saying?

[carnalnirvana]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

i still think canned animations will be in ncaa, they are tweaking the range of tackling IMO. i dont to expect a sack animation where i have the qb semi wrapped and a lb cracks him.

[schumj]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

OK people, we get it. You love back breaker. So go down to gamestop and pick it up. Trust me there are plenty of copies because it was not that great of a game. Do I love the tackling on NCAA? No! R they trying to fix it, I believe yes. But it is not necessarily an easy fix. Nor is changing engines. You have a right to complain and voice opinions but backbreaker was a crap game.

[UMCanes93]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

OK people, we get it. You love back breaker. So go down to gamestop and pick it up. Trust me there are plenty of copies because it was not that great of a game. Do I love the tackling on NCAA? No! R they trying to fix it, I believe yes. But it is not necessarily an easy fix. Nor is changing engines. You have a right to complain and voice opinions but backbreaker was a crap game.

How was I complaining? I even stated that NCAA was looking a lot more natural. I love the NCAA series and never had any desire to buy Backbreaker. I was simply saying that Backbreaker's tackling engine is different from NCAA's

[carnalnirvana]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

Just watch the videos. Though the tackles DO look nice, and look much more natural than previous years, they are still canned. They're just implemented in a way that makes them look more natural. Backbreaker's whole selling point was that you'd (almost literally) NEVER see the same tackle twice. In Backbreaker, the point of contact and speed of players would have to be EXACTLY the same for the tackle to look the same. This is not the case with NCAA Football 12. While NCAA will use physics, it will use physics to decide which animation is triggered. Backbreaker used physics to create the tackles themselves. See what I'm saying?

we are getting way off topic here but i quickly add this, in BB they animated limbs where as EA animates the body as a whole, thats why BB can claim never to see the same tackle twice because the limbs/head/spine etc can flail in multiple angles. it was definately kool, however the tackle technique did get repetitive, the outcomes due to the ragdoll seem unlimited however its not.

the flailing of arms and legs did simulate collisions well but not always accurately, i wish EA had it, however it still had boundaries and did get repetitive if you looked closely. but its wayyyyy better than anything we had ever seen in games...

all ea needs to do is rate players better, big guys need to always win against smaller guys... the engine isn't diverse enough to show a DT slipping or losing his balance to simulate how and why a WR broke his tackle so play it safe and let the DT not get thrown off.

[poopoop]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

Backbreaker decided to use Fox's NFL Robot for player models but the tackling in that game is so far beyond what NCAA does it's not fair to compare the games.

[supermanemblem]

OK people, we get it. You love back breaker. So go down to gamestop and pick it up. Trust me there are plenty of copies because it was not that great of a game. Do I love the tackling on NCAA? No! R they trying to fix it, I believe yes. But it is not necessarily an easy fix. Nor is changing engines. You have a right to complain and voice opinions but backbreaker was a crap game.

And EA has the cash, staffing and resources to have implemented what BB did several years ago. And they still haven't done it. BB may not be as polished as EA's game, but at least they are bringing something new and useful to the table instead of trumpeting adding bowl game patches.

[PaperBoyx703]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

Just watch the videos. Though the tackles DO look nice, and look much more natural than previous years, they are still canned. They're just implemented in a way that makes them look more natural. Backbreaker's whole selling point was that you'd (almost literally) NEVER see the same tackle twice. In Backbreaker, the point of contact and speed of players would have to be EXACTLY the same for the tackle to look the same. This is not the case with NCAA Football 12. While NCAA will use physics, it will use physics to decide which animation is triggered. Backbreaker used physics to create the tackles themselves. See what I'm saying?

Things is I have watched already two 10+ minsof BB games, and I have seen the same tackles just from different angles of the tackle.And from that field camera view you couldnt really tell if they repeated or not. Like every dive tackle resulted in maybe 3 different results but from diff angles and sometimes having one of your own players holding on to you as if he was tackling you as well. To be honest despite readin whats on the natural motion website the tackle simulation was fairly similar through out the game. Some which didnt make much sense, sometimes there own players would tackle each other and there were some bowling pin moments.

I will agree with carnal it was different and cool but after 10 mins of watchin it still was repetitive just not a noticeable as NCAA. You just have to watch closely.

[ChiRis]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

The new tackling system, where animations begin with contact, is what being added to this years game. The same concept is being applied to both blocking and catching(hitting the catch button and WR goes automatically(sliding) into a catch sequence) to minimize suction to a point where it isn't a factor. This is year one of this new tackle system they are implementing, I dont expect or am saying it will be perfect but will be an big improvement

What canned animations do you know are going to be in there?

I absolutely cannot believe the ignorance you're showing in this thread. Lord have mercy.

Just because the animations start when actual contact is made doesn't mean they're not canned animations. There's a library of PRE MADE tacle animations, and based on a number of variables at the point of contact it produces one of the tack animations. CANNED animation. Recorded.

In Backbreaker it uses physics for it's animations. Non canned animations that aren't recorded by a guy in a suit, but created by the game on the fly.

I don't get whats so hard for you to understand. ALL of EA's animations in game are recorded with cameras with a guy in a suit, while the game itself creates them on the fly in Backbreaker. They're not predetermined.

Lord.

[KG]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Blog - Gameplay, Part 1

like another poster said, the turning of big guys is a legit issue and i put that on the ratings IMO a 230lb guy should not have more than a 75 agility when you give them 80-90's thats where the game breaks.

the scat backs running over DT's should be an easy fix for the devs, it was fixed with str edits in a friends roster, give a small RB a 30str and he never flipped a DT.... its just a matter of how they expand the str rating. 50 should be weak, but for the sake on LB's and SS they made 50 real powerful.

bottom line the ratings under the hood needs adjusted and if we cant get the global editor they need to expand them so ratings of 70 and lower is bad/barely good.........

Agreed. People won't complain as much if star players have low ratings in strength if they are slightly above their counterparts.