Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

[TheFFInformer]

I am glad you guys enjoyed the read and Cam dose "GET IT". I was amazed how open he was about the game industry, the rumors, and Madden12 with me. Cam is one of us a fan. He wants the core of Madden NFL12 to be about how it plays. He is not interested in one time Gimmicks.

You guys on the fence. If your on the fence on Madden12 because the defense played like a fence in 11. I believe the upgrade to the AI will change the sudden DB frozen fence syndrome.

[mWolfe]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

If Madden 12 comes out as good as Ncaa 12 is shaping up this year I will actually pick up both games and finally put to rest Madden 08 on the PC. Ncaa 12 is looking good and after reading this Madden 12 seems to be following the same foot steps. Great job.

[PVarck31]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

I am glad you guys enjoyed the read and Cam dose "GET IT". I was amazed how open he was about the game industry, the rumors, and Madden12 with me. Cam is one of us a fan. He wants the core of Madden NFL12 to be about how it plays. He is not interested in one time Gimmicks.

You guys on the fence. If your on the fence on Madden12 because the defense played like a fence in 11. I believe the upgrade to the AI will change the sudden DB frozen fence syndrome.

Sounds great. Great article by the way.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

I'll certainly be watching as I miss having a FB game in my library but it will be a rental or used (so I can return it) purchase unless an OS member I trust gets early and gives an unbiased impression of the game.
Wont get burned again.

[jmurphy31]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

Love it. A former college QB who get's it.

Plus, a resume of Fight Night and Fifa 10 to boot.

I am a little skeptic as well, but seeing FIFA the past few years has me somewhat optimistic. Cant wait until next week.

[TDKing]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

All the same stuff was said about Ian when he got here... Talk is cheap ! I'll believe it when I see it.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

I was about to say the same thing. You could've replaced Ian's name in many places in the interview and it wouldn't have changed a thing ("Cam/Ian gets it" "Cam/Ian wants to make a sim game for football fans"). I can see the "suits won't let him do what he wants" excuse easily rearing it's head.

The one thing I thought was interesting is where he said he feels they "significantly moved the needle" when it comes to gameplay in this year's game. He should be held to it. Instead of everyone making excuses for the series as they have year after year after year. At this point there's just no excuse whatsoever for the game to lag behind older/less advantaged games. They're so old that at this point they can't even be used as a barometer as to where Madden needs to be. Until people come into these games w/expectations instead of having none so they can be "pleasantly surprised" by modest improvements, Madden/NCAA will lag behind the great sports games of this generation imo.

[guaps]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

Finally, somebody telling the brutal truth about Madden and having the GM of EA football acknowledge it and verbally commit to changing it. The first step to recovery is admitting there is a problem and it's very fitting this would happen for madden 12. I am feeling very optimistic about EA football "staying on the sim wagon" with a former QB, football enthusiast, that worked on FIFA and Fight Night, as their sponsor.

Agreed! One of the things I've always enjoyed about FIFA's lead producer, David Rutter, is that he's completely honest about his game. He went out a while ago and called the set pieces in FIFA 11 lame and last-gen. This is so refreshing as a gamer and makes you look forward to FIFA 12 even more. Sounds like Cam has brought this attitude with him to Tiburon. He makes me feel more confident about the future of the series.

[TheFFInformer]

All the same stuff was said about Ian when he got here... Talk is cheap ! I'll believe it when I see it.

Your right TDKing's in the end the proof is in the pudding. I am not asking you to drink the kool-aid with this years Madden. But I am going to tell you Cam has ideas that speak to the core Madden fan. When Cam speaks about vision he is speaking about all of EA's football titles, present and future. That vision is not three years by the way he is thinking much further ahead than just three years. He detailed this vision in our interview and all that I am doing is painting a picture to you the reader of Cam and his ideas.

One more thing. If you're skeptic and want proof EA will begin to provide that proof starting April 28th at http://www.ea.com/madden-nfl some cool new features will be revealed.

[jfsolo]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

I was about to say the same thing. You could've replaced Ian's name in many places in the interview and it wouldn't have changed a thing ("Cam/Ian gets it" "Cam/Ian wants to make a sim game for football fans"). I can see the "suits won't let him do what he wants" excuse easily rearing it's head.

The one thing I thought was interesting is where he said he feels they "significantly moved the needle" when it comes to gameplay in this year's game. He should be held to it. Instead of everyone making excuses for the series as they have year after year after year. At this point there's just no excuse whatsoever for the game to lag behind older/less advantaged games. They're so old that at this point they can't even be used as a barometer as to where Madden needs to be. Until people come into these games w/expectations instead of having none so they can be "pleasantly surprised" by modest improvements, Madden/NCAA will lag behind the great sports games of this generation imo.

"significantly moved" is, of course, a relative perspective for multiple reasons. Lets not be coy and dance around the issue. For people who feel as is 2K's gameplay/A.I. was/is vastly superior to Madden's the movement may not be significant in their eyes.

Ian often got caught up in a verbal battle of trying to "shut people up about 2K forever", or something to that effect. That was a losing battle for many reasons, not the least of which is, its really tough to defeat a game that was turned into a martyr and/or ghost.

Cam is probably just focusing on Madden's improvement vs. itself, so within that context he may be 100% justified in making the statements he has made. Taking this tact will satiate the vast majority of football gamers. The strongest 2K advocates may not find those efforts to be good enough, but I don't think he's going to concern himself with that segment of the gaming public.

Given what we've seen the last 5-7 years or so, reduced expectations is actually the logical position to take if you have to play a new football game every year. Most football gamers are just being honest with themselves. They are going to break down and buy the new version every year, so they aren't really in a position to demand a superior product, or else. So modest improvements are celebrated wildly, because for them, there is no other recourse.

[KBLover]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

I'm hopeful.

I didn't get Madden 11 (and sounds like a good choice as I'd be more frustrated with it from what I've read - especially defensively), but am planning - as of now - to give M12 a shot.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

I was about to say the same thing. You could've replaced Ian's name in many places in the interview and it wouldn't have changed a thing ("Cam/Ian gets it" "Cam/Ian wants to make a sim game for football fans"). I can see the "suits won't let him do what he wants" excuse easily rearing it's head.

The one thing I thought was interesting is where he said he feels they "significantly moved the needle" when it comes to gameplay in this year's game. He should be held to it. Instead of everyone making excuses for the series as they have year after year after year. At this point there's just no excuse whatsoever for the game to lag behind older/less advantaged games. They're so old that at this point they can't even be used as a barometer as to where Madden needs to be. Until people come into these games w/expectations instead of having none so they can be "pleasantly surprised" by modest improvements, Madden/NCAA will lag behind the great sports games of this generation imo.

Before crucifying the new kid on the block or EA, why don't we sit back and wait a week before the info starts pouring out. Yes, I know that is another saying around here, but if the second video I saw in NCAA regarding tackling is any indication where Madden is going, I'm favorably impressed. Also, let's remember the track record of this person. FIFA and Fight Night are pretty good games to put on your resume. Also, Ian's title and the new kid on the blocks title is much different, almost like night and day. You can't even come close to comparing the two.

Maybe this year we can be "pleasantly surprised" by Ian's last Madden.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

I really want this game to be great. I really do.

As I said I am keeping expectations very low. Because after Madden 2010 I had them sky high for Madden 2011. Bought 2011 on release day after really feeling and seeing a huge upgrade in Madden 2010 (my first next gen Madden).

If the core gameplay is tuned to make it a true sim that would actually be a huge reason to buy it alone. Couple that with a return to a deeper feature rich offline Franchise mode and we will have a winner like NCAA 2011 was.

Come on EA....I know you can do it. You have before (Madden 99, 2005).

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

"significantly moved" is, of course, a relative perspective for multiple reasons. Lets not be coy and dance around the issue. For people who feel as is 2K's gameplay/A.I. was/is vastly superior to Madden's the movement may not be significant in their eyes.

Ian often got caught up in a verbal battle of trying to "shut people up about 2K forever", or something to that effect. That was a losing battle for many reasons, not the least of which is, its really tough to defeat a game that was turned into a martyr and/or ghost.

Cam is probably just focusing on Madden's improvement vs. itself, so within that context he may be 100% justified in making the statements he has made. Taking this tact will satiate the vast majority of football gamers. The strongest 2K advocates may not find those efforts to be good enough, but I don't think he's going to concern himself with that segment of the gaming public.

Given what we've seen the last 5-7 years or so, reduced expectations is actually the logical position to take if you have to play a new football game every year. Most football gamers are just being honest with themselves. They are going to break down and buy the new version every year, so they aren't really in a position to demand a superior product, or else. So modest improvements are celebrated wildly, because for them, there is no other recourse.

Good post. I agree somewhat w/your point re 2K5 martyrdom - I've said many times Tiburon probably did more to raise 2K5 awareness than 2K themselves ever did on their own. I think it's a mistake to think it's people that think "2K's gameplay/AI was vastly superior" because you can really lump the older Madden/NCAA's in w/that argument also. I thought better of it, but the other day I started to post videos of NCAA 06 (PS2) and APF to juxtapose a point I was trying to make. It's not like it's only old 2K fans "hating" on Madden/NCAA, because I'm sure there are many that actually like the games now. Just as I'm sure there are old Madden/NCAA fans that don't like what the new games have become. It goes both ways. I find one of the more interesting things that's occurred over the past few years is how w/no competition, people are actually trying to draw sharp contrasts between Madden and NCAA even though they're essentially the same game, made by the same studio. How many people are out there saying "NCAA is great, Madden sucks"?

To that end I agree w/you that it's about perspective. To me those older games stopped being legitimate barometers years ago. So my expectations are an extrapolation of where the older titles were, and where I would think the titles would be now. It's not about expecting Madden 12 to be better than APF for example - that should be a given. Madden 07 should've been better than APF given the circumstances. If we can speak honestly and say that it wasn't, then that shows how much Tiburon's game is lacking and it should be judged accordingly.

You (seem to) take the viewpoint that because of what we've seen the past 5-7 years, we need to adjust our expectations. I take the viewpoint that because EA has chosen to corner the football gaming market for themselves, that I'm not going to lower my expectations. I would think most core sports fans don't expect their games to be overhauled every year and will buy those games yearly, as long as the games have a solid to stellar foundation to begin with. When looking at baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, boxing, etc. most people can say games in those genres made a generational leap at some point this generation. Madden/NCAA have made progressive leaps, that much is certain. But until it makes that generational leap I don't think it's wrong to have high expectations for the games. Especially when they've placed themselves in the position to make themselves the the only ones available

[LorenzoDC]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Features Major Change in Defensive Secondary AI

If the core gameplay is tuned to make it a true sim that would actually be a huge reason to buy it alone. Couple that with a return to a deeper feature rich offline Franchise mode and we will have a winner like NCAA 2011 was.

Yup. And if I may be so bold, please make it so sim gamers don't have to earn yet another annual Ph. D. in slider adjustment this year to make the game more or less approximate American football.

Is it so much to ask? Is it? IS IT I SAY??!!!