Madden NFL 12 Gameplay Preview

[Canes305]

One question....Can you block a field goal or a punt.It was nearly impossible last year

[CFTejada]

One question....Can you block a field goal or a punt.It was nearly impossible last year

Block FG's & Punts don't happen often...

[ChaseB]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Gameplay Preview

Chase when replying to questions here can you edit your original post with them? Make it easier to follow

You mean just update the original post at the start of this thread? Sure, I can do that.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Gameplay Preview

Enjoyed reading the preview Chase. Nice job.

[TMJOHNS18]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Gameplay Preview

Block FG's & Punts don't happen often...

Punts aren't hard to block when you're playing the CPU. Both with Offense and Special teams, they need to start making the CPU hard counting and running clock before snaps, cause it's too easy to time a blitz and jump punts the way it is.

[DePounded]

Good read Chase. Now that you have seen both NCAA and Madden, at this early stage, which game do you think looks more promising? I'm only planning to purchase one, and I really enjoyed NCAA 11 but Madden looks promising so far.

[goodygoody]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Gameplay Preview

Things like this really irk me and I’m not sure what it will take for Tiburon to understand that the game can have 10 billion polygons for every player, but it will still look like an 8bit arcade game if cartoony animations and weird interruptions are allowed. They need to decide if the game is really supposed to be a sim or if it is still an arcade tourney game. Add the realistic transition animations that this series desperately needs. People need to understand that it’s ok if the QB has to actually slow down, stop, turn, balance himself, set his feet, and then throw, when he was running away from the intended target, and not have it just spin and fire in a millisecond, because they can’t stand to be out of control for even a second.

Exactly LT!.. Madden is supposed to be the game for those who want a life-like representation of NFL football. So why do the people who want that get pushed aside for the people that want to do spin throws? Tell the people who get mad that there are still a few NFL streets left. Its the game for them. Not only can they do a spin throw, but they can run off a wall while there at it! Geeez.

[xbreezex]

im waiting a while before buying this.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Gameplay Preview

Feel free to use this area to conduct some hot and heavy Q&A about gameplay -- or just to tell me how bad or awesome the preview is.

(However, I am about to go out for a run, but will be home later tonight to answer stuff.)

Really enjoyed the preview Chase and I appreciate how real you seem to keep it in your write ups.

My question is in reference to this sentence in your write up: "The game has to allow you to run backwards and throw the ball across the field; otherwise some gamers would be upset."

Are you actually saying that the EA football developers admit to sacrificing basic FOOTBALL realism to avoid upsetting FOOTBALL gamers? I don't expect them to create a game so true to real life that it can only best be played in a VR suit and helmet but not representing the risk/reward of simple passing technique because of potential complaints, doesn't make sense to me. That's like making a simulation basketball game where half court alley oop dunks can be done successfully all game because that's what gamers are accustom to in NBA Jam.

I am excitedly optimistic about Madden 12 and was pretty sure EA football was headed in the right direction with what you said about Dynamic Player Performance in another article. However, this sentence makes me cringe at the thought of my perceived EA football POV in the years following the QB Vision feature, still lingering.

I hope this mindset is just some of the last dwindling affects of Madden's past and will no longer apply when developing Madden 13 like they seem to have done with other past mindsets in Madden 12.

[at23steelers]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Gameplay Preview

Are there more different types of penalties this year? Are the challenges different, where we can pick what we want to challenge? Also, did you ever see the ball go through a body. This is one of the most frustrating things in madden, and why swatting sometimes didn't work, because the ball would go through your player's hands. Great read btw!

[K_GUN]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Gameplay Preview

i've been playing a ton of 2k8 lately....still don't like the QB movement in 2k either. When guys in real life need to slide left/right in the pocket....they backpeddle......that's not allowed in 2k...EA should keep the back peddle animation in there but NOT allow that backpeddle animation to play beyond the pocket.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Gameplay Preview

[/I]Are you actually saying that the EA football developers admit to sacrificing basic FOOTBALL realism to avoid upsetting FOOTBALL gamers? I don't expect them to create a game so true to real life that it can only best be played in a VR suit and helmet but not representing the risk/reward of simple passing technique because of potential complaints, doesn't make sense to me. That's like making a simulation basketball game where half court alley oop dunks can be done successfully all game because that's what gamers are accustom to in NBA Jam.

Yea, but unfortunately there's no surprise here. If Chase didn't mention this in the preview, I would've still assumed you could do it. The devs aren't incompetent. They know it's unrealistic. I think they feel rolling and chucking is a staple of EA football games, and there's real hesitation in doing something about it. I don't agree with it, but I don't expect it to change. They've had years to do something about it...

[WAT]

Basically it sounds like Madden 12 is a little better than Madden 11 as far as gameplay goes??? Am I right?

[canes21]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Gameplay Preview

Basically it sounds like Madden 12 is a little better than Madden 11 as far as gameplay goes??? Am I right?

Depends on what you want changed...

[ChaseB]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Gameplay Preview

Oh yeah, first off, totally forgot to mention Strategy Pad and defensive assignment whatnot. The Strategy Pad still defaults to the "controversial" original control scheme, but there is the alternate way to rock out as well.

As for individual assignment stuff, shading and press coverage on single players is back in the game now -- think someone maybe have mentioned this already somewhere, but yeah, just reiterating if so.

After hearing so much about zone defense in both Madden and NCAA, I was scared to find out just how "super" it really was. Looks like my fears may have become true. I really hope this doesn't make man coverage obsolete in both titles...

I don't think it will. The developers are aware that the zone is a bit too beastly, but as I said, man coverage also received upgrades from a strategy and AI standpoint.

Good read. My quick question is , I know you stated that the Throwing on the run looked akward and part of it was because of the feet. When running the ball , how did the foot-planting while running look? Did you ever get into the open field and really get going to see if it looked like the RB skipped or slid a few steps or was it all more grounded? Hopefully that question makes sense.

I know what you're saying:

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OuWxuS68FfY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuWxuS68FfY -- in case the YT embed is not working.)

You and I both probably agree Adrian is sort of floating there and not really cutting. Honestly, in the past I don't really notice it being THAT bad when I'm playing, but when I look at replays then I notice it. So with that being said, I don't really know. I haven't really watched any replays or anything so I don't want to say one way or the other. At the same time, I would think I would feel the difference if it were truly "fixed", and I also don't feel like I would be too out of line saying foot planting isn't something they can probably solve in one year with what's currently in place.

A few questions...

1. How was the pocket? Are the DEs getting up field to create the pocket? Are DTs getting a push? And did you notice any bull rushes that didn't end with the o-lineman immediately falling over on his back?

2. Have they added engaged player mobility? Are engaged defenders able to flow laterally towards outside runs while engaged or are engaged players still stuck in mud until someone wins?

3. Is the arc on deep balls better? Unlike you, I always felt like the deep ball was too hard because it never made it over the DBs head.

4. Did you notice any double team blocks on 3-4 NGs? Playing with the Ravens, this should have happen pretty regularly.

1. I certainly felt a pocket envelop me at points. I remember two different instances where I stepped up into the pocket: once I stepped up just to take the sack and lose as little yardage as possible, and another time I tried to just escape through the middle of the pocket and ended up getting about half a yard. I'm not ready to check off all those boxes as 'yes' responses though. And while I did get sacked a bunch, I can't say it's because my O-lineman got bull rushed or whatever else until I get more time to really scope out what happened via replays etc.

2. This is a really good question, but it's one I'm leaning more towards saying 'no' about. I do feel like in Madden you can move up and down a bit, but yeah, parallel is sort of spotty.

3. Yeah, didn't really notice. As I said, I was able to swat away the balls that were under thrown. I also feel like I could get it over the DB last year though.

4. Yeah, I sort of tried to look for it, but again, I was more focused on chasing down whoever had the ball. I think it's a good sign that the linebackers were active on various defensive plays while I was the Ravens.

good review, thank you. Just a quick question about the different running style and carrying style, where they noticeable and were the animation done well? Did it add to the immersion of the game.

They did not immediately stand out to me, but I only used a couple running backs for a couple quarters.

Chase.
Are the tweaks being done from now till release going to focus on graphics and tuning or will they also include fixing some stuff you guys at the preview noticed. For example, do you think they will or can fix the qb's "ugly" running feel and look before release or is it something they just cant do. Because like i stated before, there is way too much sliding and floating enough and i hope they can fix this and not just tune it down because it gives an ugly feeling and just doesnt look right!!

They are always listening for feedback and so forth, but I take it the underlying issues I have with some of the running is just an engine thing. They are still tuning things within Franchise Mode and so forth at this point as well, so it goes beyond just gameplay stuff still at this point.

Great write up once again chase! I know this wasn't directly touched in this preview, but I was wondering how the ball physics were. It was briefly shown in the video, but I was wondering if you could give us your thoughts. Does the ball actually bounce around when it hits the ground or does it still look awful? Thanks again.

There were no fumbles during my games, go figure. I also want to see how the new, now-correctly-sized ball bounces around.

Chase you did a good job on the blog bro. Didn't see this coming today. Thanks alot. The only thing you really didn't talk about much is the oline pass rush blocking. This has been a concern of mine for the past few years. Has the oline pass blocking been improved at all this year or is it pretty much the same as last year??

What are you looking for here?

The impression I get is Madden 12 is more a building block then a dynamic turn around.

Yeah, I mean it's always a tricky middle ground with sports games. If the balance is there, then any sports game can be a great one any given year, regardless of where it is as a whole.

Looks like passing is going to frustrating.....if not next to impossible.

I don't want to overstate it. I mean I still threw for a TD during my time with the game. I just think zone defense is showing its teeth right now.

I am glad that the Running Game is way better. I was hoping he was going to go over juke and truck animation.

They are still in the game, but it would be sort of tough to say whether or not they are way more effective or not -- if that's what you're looking for that is.

Foremost, thanks a bunch for the write-up, Chase.

Cherry-picking from the previous questions I posted:

1. Gameplay: What's your impression of pass protection? Is there evidence that work has been done so that LEs are no longer as dominant, and REs have more of a fair shake?

2. Gameplay: has work been done to make man coverage effective without the "psychic DB" visual issue where the DBs will run a receiver's route before the receiver does? You specifically spelled out that you didn't feel this was the case with zone coverage, which is a promising sign.

3. Gameplay: could you go into a bit more detail about the 3-4 defense, specifically with regard to the presence of DLs occupying multiple blockers?

4. Gameplay: will we see any new penalties this year, such as defensive holding (which is all-too-common in today's NFL)? Will penalties in general be more prevalent?

1. I was an equal opportunity target when it came to getting sacked by my human opponents. Got beat up by OLBs and both ends, if not other positions. I was more getting penetration with my OLBs while using the Ravens -- duh, I guess.

2. Yeah in man coverage, I was able to run some somewhat-timing-based routes with some lead passing involved. However, I would be shocked if that's completely gone. I still think the DBs will jump some routes, but I also think they probably should read some routes -- sometimes DBs just do. It's more just that they seem to lean inside a bit more now by default.

3. Sort of touched on it earlier, but yeah, I think it seems somewhat promising that the LBs are active, but not ready to really say one way or the other without really watching and seeing how both the lines interact.

4. Good question, I did not ask. I did not see any new ones during my time with the game is all I can say.

A few thoughts/ questions on your write up.

QB movement in the pocket in Madden is atrocious, and I***8217;m disappointed to hear that this is still the case, although I could tell this much from the vids. You touched on a point that has long been a frustration of mine, and that is the notion that we get a lot of these nonsensical animations, because Tiburon philosophy is, or they cater to those that think that, having total control at all times is a necessity.

***8220;The game has to allow you to run backwards and throw the ball across the field; otherwise some gamers would be upset. ***8220;

Things like this really irk me and I***8217;m not sure what it will take for Tiburon to understand that the game can have 10 billion polygons for every player, but it will still look like an 8bit arcade game if cartoony animations and weird interruptions are allowed. They need to decide if the game is really supposed to be a sim or if it is still an arcade tourney game. Add the realistic transition animations that this series desperately needs. People need to understand that it***8217;s ok if the QB has to actually slow down, stop, turn, balance himself, set his feet, and then throw, when he was running away from the intended target, and not have it just spin and fire in a millisecond, because they can***8217;t stand to be out of control for even a second.

---ChaseB: I sympathize with your point, and I tend to lean more towards your side of the argument, but it might not be as easy as deciding that A and B are the only options. I also have to be a proponent and supporter of user control in these games rather than being taken over by animations whenever possible. Lots of bad things have happened in sports games over the years when over-animation occurs. At the very least, I do think they need to find a better middle ground.

***8220;So far with this game, I feel much more in control of the situation on deep balls. I have been able to bat away deep balls on downs where I know they might be coming.***8221;

Except that this almost never happens in real life. You rarely see balls swatted on deep balls. If you are talking about Fly***8217;s, QB***8217;s will rarely put a ball low enough that the defender can get their hands on. It will usually be overthrown, or the defender will make the play by stripping the ball as the receiver tries to gather it in rather than swat it. On deep corners, crosses, and posts, again, the ball will either be led too much, or the defender will break up the play after it has touched the receiver***8217;s hands, either via a strip, or a crushing hit. There are too many swatted balls in Madden as it is. The number of passes defensed in Madden is so far out of proportion with reality that it isn***8217;t funny. There are several reasons for that, but I won***8217;t go into them now as they would be whole threads unto themselves. The bottom line is that it is HARD to play pass defense, and although, the way the defense was hamstrung last year wasn***8217;t good either, it seems as if they are going about rectifying things in their usual manner of overreacting the other way in the next edition. That rarely ends well. Something needed to be done, but I think they should have done things differently, but I won***8217;t go into those reasons at this time, for reasons I already mentioned.

--ChaseB: I think that's mostly a fair point, but I wouldn't say balls are never swatted away. However, yes, it does seem like a crutch of sorts and it would be cool if more (user) late strips and stuff of that nature were in to make it more dynamic. There are some times in Madden where receivers drop the ball when the defender tackles the arms.

Lastly:

***8220;In addition, the removal of suction blocking and suction play in general has been something EA has tried to eradicate for years. While it***8217;s probably not going to ever vanish completely during this generation, the tweaks made to the physics engine do have some clear benefits, as well as a couple potential shortcomings. All in all, the developers are not trying to win the war this year when it comes to the problems surrounding physics and suction blocking, but they do clearly want to win a decisive battle in Madden 12.***8221;

So are you saying that there IS still suction and warping in the game?

--ChaseB: I never noticed it during tackle animations, but I would figure it's still in the game at points when it comes to general interactions while blocking players in the trenches. I also say that because I saw it in NCAA 12 at points still in these situations, and these teams are sharing assets on this front.

1. Can you send more than one player in motion on offense ?
2. Has the Oline protection calls changed any ?
3. Are there any coverage shells ?
4. How many tackles did you make where YOU came in to finish off the tackle and not just go into a fall down animation ? Did you influence the direction the tackle went in ?
5. Is there a lot of warping by WR's/DB's ?
6. Since they changed the way tackling works, does this mean "PRO-TAK" is dead ?(Though I never saw it work as advertised)
7. Did they fix replays so you can see ALL of them.
8. Do WR's still get held at the LOS forever when press coverage is called ?
9. During man coverage are DB's still running the routes before the WR's ?

1. Not sure, but lean towards no.

2. I assume you mean in terms of pre-snap. I think I just saw the three shifts again.

3. May need to be a bit more descriptive. My understanding is that a coverage shell is just Cover 2, man-to-man, Cover 4 etc.

4. Uhhhh, don't remember. The momentum, angle and underlying weight etc. take into account where the tackle will end up -- not the user.

5. I know what you're referring too, and I did not see it in my limited time. I still think there will probably be instances where the DB slides in miraculously -- old habits die hard -- but hopefully it's better is all I can really say for now.

6. I have lost track of whether they are saying this modified PRO-TAK or just something new honestly. Whatever it is, it's different from what was there last year.

7. You mean like in the summary after a game? Not sure.

8. Wasn't checking, sorry.

9. Didn't see much of that, answered it above a bit more thoroughly.

did you notice dive catches if so did they look good?

Only saw a couple dive catches. One near the sideline looked great, another where the player caught it and sort of dove into another defender looked a bit off.

in terms of defense......is the improved D artificial?.......as in more skating to cover more ground?

I've seen that discussion over on the NCAA forums -- it's a good one -- but I can't really say here. All I see really while playing are the results. For passing, I just noticed better D overall in the secondary, but the issue is more the linebackers I believe in the talks about NCAA. I didn't see any "super" linebackers, but can't really say more than that for now in terms of how they're striding.

Good read Chase. Now that you have seen both NCAA and Madden, at this early stage, which game do you think looks more promising? I'm only planning to purchase one, and I really enjoyed NCAA 11 but Madden looks promising so far.

Yeah, I really can't say at this point. Still played both very briefly in the grand scheme of things. It does seem like both games are focusing on similar things though -- just taking different angles at points.