FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

and Most of the guys you just named are Track guys of cours ethey RUN a Faster 40 they are tarined to do that in Track....

Mike Vick has that Speed that he takes off after one step and can make Huge plays with his Feet and wont be caught once given the edge on a Run

most of the guys you just named have staright line speed , Vick is one of Few who does every move he has at Full speed

they even had to tone this down because in Madden 04 they said it was unfair , but to be honest it isnt , use a QB spy and stop Bitching that your D-Linemen are too slow and get some with speed to contain him , period point Blank



thats why he deserved a 99 speed imo

First of all I have seen Vick caught PLENTY of times even when given the edge. Does that mean he deserves a 99 speed? No. Secondly, if he is able to "every move he has at full speed" like you say (which is highly speculative to begin with) that is the AGI rating that controls that behavior, not the speed rating. You still have not provided any evidence of Vick being worthy of the 99 speed. Keep trying though.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Hillis breaks a lot of tackles, soooo 99 break tackle

Yeah and Rex Grossman made the Super Bowl in 2006 so I guess he needs a 99 accuracy

[Thinking Out Loud]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

and Most of the guys you just named are Track guys of cours ethey RUN a Faster 40 they are tarined to do that in Track....

Mike Vick has that Speed that he takes off after one step and can make Huge plays with his Feet and wont be caught once given the edge on a Run

most of the guys you just named have staright line speed , Vick is one of Few who does every move he has at Full speed

they even had to tone this down because in Madden 04 they said it was unfair , but to be honest it isnt , use a QB spy and stop Bitching that your D-Linemen are too slow and get some with speed to contain him , period point Blank



thats why he deserved a 99 speed imo

I know I shouldn't even comment on this but what the heck, I am just marking time til the franchise blog comes out.

So, you honestly believe Vick deserves a 99 speed, really? TLF, WTF? LOL

That's the great thing about the internet and forums, ANYONE can say ANYTHING, including myself, even if they have no idea what they are talking about. LOL

So if Vick had a 99 speed rating, what about the other players that are as fast or faster then Vick? Should Vick be the only 99 speed in the game or there should be numerous 99 speed ratings? Also, what about the fast guys in the history of the league like Darrell Green, Willie Gaullt, Joey Galloway, Bob Hayes and Deion Sanders, they should ALL have 99 speed?

[TMJOHNS18]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

The example of LB speed ratings is great! That is why I had to do things this way. LBs that run in the 4.6s should not be able to run down RBs who run in the 4.4s.

Running in a straight line in shorts is way different than in a game with pads. I'm interested in trying these adjusted ratings out, but it just seems that with all the emphases on drill results will not translate over too well in the game.

For example, look at Legarrette Blount and Peyton Hillis. There's a lot more RB's with better verticals then them but you don't see them hurdling defenders. Theres more to a football player then just doing well in drills. Just because a guy is slower in the 3 cone doesn't mean he can't be the best change of direction player.

Looking at 40 times, just because two guys run the same time doesn't mean they are the same speed. If my 10 yard split is twice as fast as yours, but we finish at 4.6, then you are faster then me. And even if they run truly identical times, wouldn't a heavier guy have better ACC if he is able to run the same splits as a guy who weighs 25+ less?

Think if it as 2 cars drag racing each other. If they leave the line at the same and one of them has a 10 car lead at the 660' mark then that car accelerates faster then the other. But, if they finish dead even, then the other car has a higher top speed. You see this with some running backs. They have great burst, but don't have the top speed to outrun defenders.

So, looking at 4.4 hb vrs a 4.6 lb, who says that the LB can't run down the HB in the open field? If the HB is 5-8 190, and the LB is 6-4 240, the different between them could be that the HB ACC way faster then the LB, but top end speed could be identical or even favor the LB.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that there is a lot more to consider when rating players other then saying if a guy runs X.XX then he gets a XX rating. Madden doesn't account for the weight at all, so whatever speed rating a player has is their top speed (300lb DT and 170lb HB run head to head with 99 speed).

So when rating a player only based off the 40, then all splits must be used. With equal 40's, guys with quicker 10 yard splits have better ACC but lower SPD, since they reach their top end quicker. Guys with lower 10 yard splits have lower ACC but higher SPD. If a guy with a lower 40 covers the last 20 yards faster then a guy with a quicker 40, his SPD should be higher but ACC lower since it takes him longer to get up to speed. And if you break this down as much as you want, yard for yard, you'll still see on Sunday plays that throw all these drills out the window. The only way to know if a guy can play is to throw him on the field and see what happens.

[TLF]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Yeah and Rex Grossman made the Super Bowl in 2006 so I guess he needs a 99 accuracy

LOL they neeed to make a drop the snap rating ONLY for RExyy

[TLF]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Running in a straight line in shorts is way different than in a game with pads. I'm interested in trying these adjusted ratings out, but it just seems that with all the emphases on drill results will not translate over too well in the game.

For example, look at Legarrette Blount and Peyton Hillis. There's a lot more RB's with better verticals then them but you don't see them hurdling defenders. Theres more to a football player then just doing well in drills. Just because a guy is slower in the 3 cone doesn't mean he can't be the best change of direction player.

Looking at 40 times, just because two guys run the same time doesn't mean they are the same speed. If my 10 yard split is twice as fast as yours, but we finish at 4.6, then you are faster then me. And even if they run truly identical times, wouldn't a heavier guy have better ACC if he is able to run the same splits as a guy who weighs 25+ less?

Think if it as 2 cars drag racing each other. If they leave the line at the same and one of them has a 10 car lead at the 660' mark then that car accelerates faster then the other. But, if they finish dead even, then the other car has a higher top speed. You see this with some running backs. They have great burst, but don't have the top speed to outrun defenders.

So, looking at 4.4 hb vrs a 4.6 lb, who says that the LB can't run down the HB in the open field? If the HB is 5-8 190, and the LB is 6-4 240, the different between them could be that the HB ACC way faster then the LB, but top end speed could be identical or even favor the LB.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that there is a lot more to consider when rating players other then saying if a guy runs X.XX then he gets a XX rating. Madden doesn't account for the weight at all, so whatever speed rating a player has is their top speed (300lb DT and 170lb HB run head to head with 99 speed).

So when rating a player only based off the 40, then all splits must be used. With equal 40's, guys with quicker 10 yard splits have better ACC but lower SPD, since they reach their top end quicker. Guys with lower 10 yard splits have lower ACC but higher SPD. If a guy with a lower 40 covers the last 20 yards faster then a guy with a quicker 40, his SPD should be higher but ACC lower since it takes him longer to get up to speed. And if you break this down as much as you want, yard for yard, you'll still see on Sunday plays that throw all these drills out the window. The only way to know if a guy can play is to throw him on the field and see what happens.

yea i agree on the Hurdle , they need to add the Jumping rating into that variable or something because Blount has some Hops in the open field

he has done it multiple times in college and the pro's


yea i agree , i also hope that some of the Better players can mess up if myou will on Any Givene Sunday

id love to Own Revis with Jeff Maehl outta FA and just watch a rook own him

[Thinking Out Loud]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

@TMJOHNS18, you say that stuff as if FBG ratings only uses 40 times to calculate ratings but they don't. DECEBB has stated over and over he uses many different kinds of scouting data to access players skill set.

So two people with the same 40 time, would have their speed the same but other ratings, such as acceleration, agility and stamina would be based on other data like sprints, shuttle cones and 100m runs.

Therefore, properly differentiating their overall skill set from each other.

[TLF]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

@TMJOHNS18, you say that stuff as if FBG ratings only uses 40 times to calculate ratings but they don't. DECEBB has stated over and over he uses many different kinds of scouting data to access players skill set.

So two people with the same 40 time, would have their speed the same but other ratings, such as acceleration, agility and stamina would be based on other data like sprints, shuttle cones and 100m runs.

Therefore, properly differentiating their overall skill set from each other.

give John Clay 73 speed and 90 accel LOL

[TMJOHNS18]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

So two people with the same 40 time, would have their speed the same but other ratings, such as acceleration, agility and stamina would be based on other data like sprints, shuttle cones and 100m runs.er.

If speed is how fast the player runs all out, then two players running the same 40 won't always have the same speed. Like I said in my post, if a guy is hitting his top speed 10 yards into the run, where another is hitting his 20 yards, and they run identical 40's, then second will be running faster at the end of the 40, while the first guy would have a quicker launch/first step.

If you do it how you're explaining it, then the guy with higher ACC will outrun the other because he gets up to speed quicker and they both have the same top end speed. So if you did a mock 40 in the game, they would not run the same time. Also, look at scouting in the game, there are players that run 4.2's that have lower speed ratings then 4.4s, but their ACC will be higher because the 40 is more about determining ACC (how fast you can get up to speed) over how fast your top end is.

But, like I said in my first post, I'm eager to try it out. Mostly over the other ratings, especially seeing how adjusting play recognition made a big impact in NCAA and helped the CPU play more realistic, so any changes to how ratings are assigned has got me interested. It's just that I worry guys with 4.2 speed and the combine all stars will be tearing up the field even though there's plenty of powerful/fast guys who's combine/pro day drill results wouldn't suggest that.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Running in a straight line in shorts is way different than in a game with pads. I'm interested in trying these adjusted ratings out, but it just seems that with all the emphases on drill results will not translate over too well in the game.

For example, look at Legarrette Blount and Peyton Hillis. There's a lot more RB's with better verticals then them but you don't see them hurdling defenders. Theres more to a football player then just doing well in drills. Just because a guy is slower in the 3 cone doesn't mean he can't be the best change of direction player.

Looking at 40 times, just because two guys run the same time doesn't mean they are the same speed. If my 10 yard split is twice as fast as yours, but we finish at 4.6, then you are faster then me. And even if they run truly identical times, wouldn't a heavier guy have better ACC if he is able to run the same splits as a guy who weighs 25+ less?

Think if it as 2 cars drag racing each other. If they leave the line at the same and one of them has a 10 car lead at the 660' mark then that car accelerates faster then the other. But, if they finish dead even, then the other car has a higher top speed. You see this with some running backs. They have great burst, but don't have the top speed to outrun defenders.

So, looking at 4.4 hb vrs a 4.6 lb, who says that the LB can't run down the HB in the open field? If the HB is 5-8 190, and the LB is 6-4 240, the different between them could be that the HB ACC way faster then the LB, but top end speed could be identical or even favor the LB.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that there is a lot more to consider when rating players other then saying if a guy runs X.XX then he gets a XX rating. Madden doesn't account for the weight at all, so whatever speed rating a player has is their top speed (300lb DT and 170lb HB run head to head with 99 speed).

So when rating a player only based off the 40, then all splits must be used. With equal 40's, guys with quicker 10 yard splits have better ACC but lower SPD, since they reach their top end quicker. Guys with lower 10 yard splits have lower ACC but higher SPD. If a guy with a lower 40 covers the last 20 yards faster then a guy with a quicker 40, his SPD should be higher but ACC lower since it takes him longer to get up to speed. And if you break this down as much as you want, yard for yard, you'll still see on Sunday plays that throw all these drills out the window. The only way to know if a guy can play is to throw him on the field and see what happens.

This issue has already been discussed and accounted for in this forum. That is why utilizing the splits DOES affect the overall performance. HOWEVER, speed does NOT work separately from the ACC rating in Madden. They work symbiotically, meaning they both affect one another in the game. I tested this for hours in Madden 08, 10, and 11. The bottom line is that there is no "10yd SPD" or "20yd SPD" rating. The speed rating is constant and the only constant we have is the given overall distance and time taken from the 40 times. Therefore, if player A runs a 1.50 and 4.40 and player B runs a 1.60 and a 4.40 they will still have that constant overall speed rating applied. The 10yd splits only affect ACC, of which players in-game reach by the first 10yds (and yes, you can measure it by counting frames). So in actuality, it is how both ratings work TOGETHER that determines how fast players move in Madden.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

@TMJOHNS18, you say that stuff as if FBG ratings only uses 40 times to calculate ratings but they don't. DECEBB has stated over and over he uses many different kinds of scouting data to access players skill set.

So two people with the same 40 time, would have their speed the same but other ratings, such as acceleration, agility and stamina would be based on other data like sprints, shuttle cones and 100m runs.

Therefore, properly differentiating their overall skill set from each other.

THANK YOU!!!

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

give John Clay 73 speed and 90 accel LOL

He is actually at 74 SPD and 80 ACC with a 79 AGI and 68 JMP.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

If speed is how fast the player runs all out, then two players running the same 40 won't always have the same speed. Like I said in my post, if a guy is hitting his top speed 10 yards into the run, where another is hitting his 20 yards, and they run identical 40's, then second will be running faster at the end of the 40, while the first guy would have a quicker launch/first step.

If you do it how you're explaining it, then the guy with higher ACC will outrun the other because he gets up to speed quicker and they both have the same top end speed. So if you did a mock 40 in the game, they would not run the same time. Also, look at scouting in the game, there are players that run 4.2's that have lower speed ratings then 4.4s, but their ACC will be higher because the 40 is more about determining ACC (how fast you can get up to speed) over how fast your top end is.

But, like I said in my first post, I'm eager to try it out. Mostly over the other ratings, especially seeing how adjusting play recognition made a big impact in NCAA and helped the CPU play more realistic, so any changes to how ratings are assigned has got me interested. It's just that I worry guys with 4.2 speed and the combine all stars will be tearing up the field even though there's plenty of powerful/fast guys who's combine/pro day drill results wouldn't suggest that.

The big problem is that the Madden gaming engine makes all players reach top speed at around 10yds no matter what. To counter this, some players like D.Jackson may have a 92 SPD but only an 87 ACC where as a guy like Kevin Kasper has an 89 SPD but a 98 ACC. I already know how both variables behave within the engine so it is easy to account for how both work with the given data to make those speeds seem as realistic as possible.

Scouting data is also heavily used in determining the ratings for players so don't worry about it just being about 40 times. Jerry Rice in this system would have a speed of 82, but his RTE, AWR, CTH, and ACC would all be close to 99. What this system does overall is force the user to look at other ratings besides SPD. A good example: Adrian Peterson.

STR: 64
AGI: 79
SPD: 90
ACC: 87
AWR: 86
JMP: 84

Not great right? Pretty average on the STR and AGI ratings. However, look at the rest of his ratings for his position!

CTH 81
CAR 83
PBK 54
RBK 49
RET 56
TRK 87
ELU 94
BCV 99
SFA 88
SPM 93
JKM 94
RTE 74

That BCV is what makes him sooo good as a runner. His vision is among tops not only in the league, but in history! He always knows where to run! Note the discrepancy between the AGI rating and ELU/SPM/JKM ratings. This shows you that OVERALL AGILITY can and is different from FOOTBALL agility and one can possess more than the other. AP has tight hips, but when performing a football move, he is able to break down and change directions well. AGI and SPM/JKM is another example of symbiotic ratings: one affects the others as to present a realistic representation of on-field performance.

[guaps]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Looks like ratings will still be inflated for Madden 12. Individual players still have the 99 overall rating and teams have way too many elite player. From the video/screenshot revealed so far we know that the Ravens has got 7 player rated 94+, Falcons has got 6 players at 93+ and Packers has 8 players rated 92+. Cannot imagine how teams might look 5+ years into franchise mode - yikes!

I hope you'll be able to provide more realistic ratings come August

[Playmakers]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I thought this article i was reading while researching some onformation on ex-Steeler LB Levon Kirkland would help open some eye's to those who seem to worry way too much about a players speed rating.....you'll see that Kirkland refrences quickness to be more important than speed. I've read similiar comments from Emmitt Smith who wasn't a very fast RB based on speed

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http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/football/article/Seahawks-Kirkland-goes-by-the-numbers-1051655.php

It started at Clemson, where he weighed 205 pounds his freshman year. It continued when he arrived in Pittsburgh as a 240-pound outside linebacker. To play inside in the Steelers' 3-4 defense, he had to get bigger. Kirkland gradually increased his weight, without losing much speed or any quickness. His best time in the 40-yard dash in college was 4.6 seconds. Despite the added weight, he ran between 4.7 and 4.8 seconds a few years ago.

"I always ran a slow 40," said Kirkland, slow being a relative term for a man his size. "I never was a 40 guy. It's quickness more than speed. That's what is essential to football. I think you have to have a lot of quickness, and I think my quickness has been the best part of my game."