Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

[TLF]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

Yeah, true. I personally think it was strictly a work-ethic thing with Russell - When you're repeatedly told you have the best arm anyone has seen in years, possibly EVER, it gets in some guys heads and they create a feeling of entitlement. Thats probably why he held out so long and got so lazy - he tried to get by on talent, and he probably had been doing it his whole life/career.

But, for every JaMarcus Russell, there's a Tom Brady or Tony Romo, who all the scouts will miss on. No one gave Brady a chance, yet he came into the Pats organization and told Robert Kraft, man to man, face to face, that he would make him look like a genius. And this was a 6th round FLIER we're talking about.

I can't imagine, in his rookie year, that Brady wouldve have anything more than a C or B potential. He still doesnt have the STRONGEST arm, but he's probably one of the most accurate QBs ever, and he's always been accurate. He was put in the right system.

And something funny I read in a forum: It was either Tom Brady or Tim Rattay for that pick. Lol to think of what could've never been.

yea he didnt have the Drive to play , he got PAID and after that decided "idgaf" anymore , and decided he can naturally be that good without practice etc.


how is what Russell went through ANY different?

Cam is EVEN more Hyped up saying he is the most Athletic QB ever , won a Heisman , got a Under Armour Deal

the Heisman and UA deal were things Russell didnt get , so why is he any different.... if anything he is more Big Headed than Russell

Russell has a Huge arm so does Cam

Bradford was Hyped but he had Accuracy on every throw , he picked apart a Defense with every throw he made

Cam is more about big plays etc. if he gets in a Groove he is Golden but vice versa if he is Cold he isnt gonna Recover...both Cam and Russell have that where if they get stuck or mess up it gets in their head

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

However, I don't want to see a different RB for the Cowboys starting every week because they had a good game. If Felix Jones has one good game over Marion Barber, and he's already the starter, then next week Tashard Choice outplays Felix Jones, Choice shouldn't immediately become the starter. It should take a string of good games by one (or two guys, if its a committee) guy, along with the top guy struggling, to bring a change in the depth chart.

Well, presumably, the depth chart doesn't change throughout the season? Like in M11, the reordering of depth charts is an offseason activity for the CPU controlled teams.

Regardless, I wouldn't want starters swapping in and out either. But that seems like something the dev team would've realistically accounted for during implementation. Not concerned...

[Thinking Out Loud]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

Well, presumably, the depth chart doesn't change throughout the season? Like in M11, the reordering of depth charts is an offseason activity for the CPU controlled teams.

Regardless, I wouldn't want starters swapping in and out either. But that seems like something the dev team would've realistically accounted for during implementation. Not concerned...

I think you are mistaken about this, Rgiles and I think CPU teams auto update their depth chart weekly, not yearly. The reasons I say this are;

1) If a CPU team in Madden 11 suffers too many injuries at a position, they will sign free agents to compensate. If you look at the depth chart of CPU teams after this process and after players come back from injury, their depth charts are auto updated in both instances. (I noticed this because my friend and I control the CPU teams on each others user team schedule every week.)

2) If a user controlled team turns ON the "auto update depth chart" Franchise Option, even if the user manually changes their depth chart one week, it will auto update at least the following week, maybe sooner. ( I can't remember if it auto updates after loading a franchise game if the user adjusts it before playing that week or not because I always keep the option turned off now)

IMO, like I stated in my previous post, I think this is how CPU depth charts should continue to work in Madden 12.

[JaySmooov]

I disagree and that's exactly what I would want to see IF the Cowboys RB committee became that flux. For Felix Jones's OVR to become high enough to take the starting job from Marion Barber, that means the game considers Jones to be the better back, at that time.

Any real coach in the NFL ultimately decides their depth chart by which players give them the BEST chance of winning. So if it only took one week for Jones to become the Cowboys BEST OVR RB, it should only take one week to make the depth chart change.

Yeah, in that situation, sure. But usually it DOESN'T a week to determine who is better. So I wouldn't want to see a different RB starting every week just because he had a better game than the others LAST week. I want to see him in there because he is generally performing better over A PERIOD OF TIME. Besides, wouldn't that kind of negate the hot streak/cold streak idea? If Jones performed well, became the starter, got on a hot streak, then Barber performs better the next week, now he's the starter. That's not really a flux, to me.

[JaySmooov]

yea he didnt have the Drive to play , he got PAID and after that decided "idgaf" anymore , and decided he can naturally be that good without practice etc.


how is what Russell went through ANY different?

Cam is EVEN more Hyped up saying he is the most Athletic QB ever , won a Heisman , got a Under Armour Deal

the Heisman and UA deal were things Russell didnt get , so why is he any different.... if anything he is more Big Headed than Russell

Russell has a Huge arm so does Cam

Bradford was Hyped but he had Accuracy on every throw , he picked apart a Defense with every throw he made

Cam is more about big plays etc. if he gets in a Groove he is Golden but vice versa if he is Cold he isnt gonna Recover...both Cam and Russell have that where if they get stuck or mess up it gets in their head

But Cam DID have work ethic, or at least more than Russell. It depends though, the jury is still out on him. Remember, Russell was always considered overweight, out-of-shape, and basically along for the ride. Newton won everywhere he was at, worked hard to impress scouts, but he did had off the field "allegations." Who knows, we'll see.

[JaySmooov]

I think you are mistaken about this, Rgiles and I think CPU teams auto update their depth chart weekly, not yearly. The reasons I say this are;

1) If a CPU team in Madden 11 suffers too many injuries at a position, they will sign free agents to compensate. If you look at the depth chart of CPU teams after this process and after players come back from injury, their depth charts are auto updated in both instances. (I noticed this because my friend and I control the CPU teams on each others user team schedule every week.)

2) If a user controlled team turns ON the "auto update depth chart" Franchise Option, even if the user manually changes their depth chart one week, it will auto update at least the following week, maybe sooner. ( I can't remember if it auto updates after loading a franchise game if the user adjusts it before playing that week or not because I always keep the option turned off now)

IMO, like I stated in my previous post, I think this is how CPU depth charts should continue to work in Madden 12.

But consider real-life: In the Jets situation, Shonn Green was the starter over LT. They both splitted carries, but eventually LT wrested the starting role away from Greene because A) He was more consistent in his production, and B) because Greene struggled out of the gate. Now, for the remainder of the year, LT was the starter. There WERE times, however, where Greene outproduced LT and even had MORE carries outright in certain games. However, those times weren't consistent, they happened really sporadically and unpredictably.

What you're implying is that every time a player is outproduced in Madden, he shifted out of the lineup for the guy who out produced him. In this case, for everytime Greene outproduced him in real life, he should be the starter next week. BUT, LT did nothing bad, production wise, to warrant a demotion, he was just outproduced. Both may have had 100 yard games, but just because Green may have had an extra TD and 20 more yards, now he's the starter. That isn't realistic.

The depth chart should shuffle guys if a starter CONSISTENTLY get's outproduced by the backup. This happened with the Chiefs. Charles wasn't really outproducing Jones at first, but because Charles picked it up, and he was more dynamic in the lineup, he became the starter. Both RBs still produced, but Charles never did anything to warrant a demotion in favor of Thomas Jones, even though Jones still got a 100 yard game or two. Just opinion though, on how it should be.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

I think you are mistaken about this, Rgiles and I think CPU teams auto update their depth chart weekly, not yearly. The reasons I say this are;

1) If a CPU team in Madden 11 suffers too many injuries at a position, they will sign free agents to compensate. If you look at the depth chart of CPU teams after this process and after players come back from injury, their depth charts are auto updated in both instances. (I noticed this because my friend and I control the CPU teams on each others user team schedule every week.)

I could be off-base, but I seem to remember that when starting my franchise last year, Big Ben and another suspended player didn't play. They were moved down the depth charts because of their suspensions by Donny Moore.

My point is that if depth-charts were re-organized every week, then that wouldn't have happened. Big Ben would've been starting immediately. But again, maybe I'm off-base.

Regardless, I don't want depth charts fluctuating to account hot/cold streaks, and I'm confident that the developers took care to ensure this doesn't happen. After 1 week, you could have a situation where Cutler dips underneath his back-up -- that's not realistic.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

The depth chart should shuffle guys if a starter CONSISTENTLY get's outproduced by the backup. This happened with the Chiefs. Charles wasn't really outproducing Jones at first, but because Charles picked it up, and he was more dynamic in the lineup, he became the starter. Both RBs still produced, but Charles never did anything to warrant a demotion in favor of Thomas Jones, even though Jones still got a 100 yard game or two. Just opinion though, on how it should be.

Not only that, let's not forget that the ratings reset after 3 weeks. With that in mind, the depth chart should recognize the real overall ratings, not the inflated/deflated ones.

[JaySmooov]

I could be off-base, but I seem to remember that when starting my franchise last year, Big Ben and another suspended player didn't play. They were moved down the depth charts because of their suspensions by Donny Moore.

My point is that if depth-charts were re-organized every week, then that wouldn't have happened. Big Ben would've been starting immediately. But again, maybe I'm off-base.

Regardless, I don't want depth charts fluctuating to account hot/cold streaks, and I'm confident that the developers took care to ensure this doesn't happen. After 1 week, you could have a situation where Cutler dips underneath his back-up -- that's not realistic.

Exactly. And, because the CPU would tailor the offense to make up for the dropoff from Cutler to Caleb Hanie, even if Hanie plays well, Cutler's cold streak would end after the week, essetially resetting his overall. Then, Cutler would be right back at the top of the Depth Chart, regardless of whether Hanie played well or not.. That's a potential dealbreaker if it happens that way.

I mean, based off of the interview OS had with Donny, it looks like players wont be shuffled, or QBs who are struggling wont be pulled for the QB of the Future. But, it's good enough for me, THIS YEAR, that the game could recognize that Alex Smith isnt the right answer, cut their losses and move on with Kaepernick and a stop-gap. That's truly innovative if the game can do that without any user influence, and a step in the right direction for Madden AND EA. I can't imagine that the Live/Elite series won't inquire about using this DDP system, and other features in Madden, as well as other football/sports games down the line.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

Exactly. And, because the CPU would tailor the offense to make up for the dropoff from Cutler to Caleb Hanie, even if Hanie plays well, Cutler's cold streak would end after the week, essetially resetting his overall. Then, Cutler would be right back at the top of the Depth Chart, regardless of whether Hanie played well or not.. That's a potential dealbreaker if it happens that way.

I mean, based off of the interview OS had with Donny, it looks like players wont be shuffled, or QBs who are struggling wont be pulled for the QB of the Future. But, it's good enough for me, THIS YEAR, that the game could recognize that Alex Smith isnt the right answer, cut their losses and move on with Kaepernick and a stop-gap. That's truly innovative if the game can do that without any user influence, and a step in the right direction for Madden AND EA. I can't imagine that the Live/Elite series won't inquire about using this DDP system, and other features in Madden, as well as other football/sports games down the line.

@Rgiles and JaySmooov, I feel what you both are saying but IMO, you both are overlooking a key point. If the OVR of starters are that close to the OVR of bench players, at any position, this would naturally creates realistic position battles.

On ANY real life NFL team, at ANY position, if the starter and a bench player's skill set is close, the coach will play whichever guy is playing best, at that time. Especially in the case of RB's and even with RB's by committee by starting the "hot" RB but this also applies to QB, WR, DB, etc.

My point is if players on teams in Madden 12 have;

A) Real OVR at various positions, close enough to other players, that streaks can make one's OVR better than the other

And/Or

B) Are so drastically inconsistent they could have a starting OVR one week but a bench OVR the next, Madden 12 should and I believe will reflect that through weekly auto updated depth charts.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

On ANY real life NFL team, at ANY position, if the starter and a bench player's skill set is close, the coach will play whichever guy is playing best, at that time. Especially in the case of RB's and even with RB's by committee by starting the "hot" RB but this also applies to QB, WR, DB, etc.

I disagree with this pal -- and perhaps that's why we're not seeing eye to eye. IMO, starters aren't shuffled in and out in the NFL. It just doesn't happen. Coaches are too concerned about their players' psyche to move players in and out of the starting lineup. IMO, a player has to string along an impressive stretch of games to unseat a starter; and in many instances, that stretch will only earn the player more playing time, not starter-status.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

I disagree with this pal -- and perhaps that's why we're not seeing eye to eye. IMO, starters aren't shuffled in and out in the NFL. It just doesn't happen. Coaches are too concerned about their players' psyche to move players in and out of the starting lineup. IMO, a player has to string along an impressive stretch of games to unseat a starter; and in many instances, that stretch will only earn the player more playing time, not starter-status.

I agree. Players in the NFL do not get shuffled around often at all. It's not like baseball where there are a ton of games. Most of the time, injuries are the real reason or if a team is out of the hunt and a coach needs to evaluate players for the following season.

[JaySmooov]

@Rgiles and JaySmooov, I feel what you both are saying but IMO, you both are overlooking a key point. If the OVR of starters are that close to the OVR of bench players, at any position, this would naturally creates realistic position battles.

On ANY real life NFL team, at ANY position, if the starter and a bench player's skill set is close, the coach will play whichever guy is playing best, at that time. Especially in the case of RB's and even with RB's by committee by starting the "hot" RB but this also applies to QB, WR, DB, etc.

My point is if players on teams in Madden 12 have;

A) Real OVR at various positions, close enough to other players, that streaks can make one's OVR better than the other

And/Or

B) Are so drastically inconsistent they could have a starting OVR one week but a bench OVR the next, Madden 12 should and I believe will reflect that through weekly auto updated depth charts.

Ok, first of all, Madden never updated their depth charts weekly. The only time the CPU ever updated a depth chart, in season, was when a transaction of any kind occurred on the team.

Second, consider this: Michael Vick's rating will be pretty close to Kevin Kolb's. If Kolb is still an Eagle, and say Vick plays poorly in Week 1, ok, lets make Kolb the starter in week 2. Now, if Kolb plays decent, doesn't experience a SIGNIFICANT rating change, while Vick's rating resets because his cold streak ends (He didn't play week 2), you suggest that Vick become the starter again because his rating is better?

You're basically saying Madden should play to the hot/cold streaks to an EXTREME. The real NFL doesn't do that at all.

How long did it take Ahmad Bradshaw to become the starter over Brandon Jacobs? He didn't just simply get it over ONE GAME, he out-produced Jacobs over multiple games. And even though I'm pretty sure Bradshaw fumbled a couple times and Jacobs didnt, that wasn't grounds for an immediate change at RB again because Bradshaw clearly showed he was the better back.

When Manning went on his string of horrible games, did we see Curtis Painter at any point in time? No. Why? Because the NFL doesn't work that way. And you may say Manning's rating was nowhere near close to Painters, but im pretty sure Manning wouldve experienced an extreme point swing in that case.

Show me any instance where a coach repeatedly switched guys in-and-out of a lineup because he had the "hot hand."

Honestly, I think you psyched yourself up for a complex part/feature that won't even be implied in the game, and isn't even practiced in real life.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

I disagree with this pal -- and perhaps that's why we're not seeing eye to eye. IMO, starters aren't shuffled in and out in the NFL. It just doesn't happen. Coaches are too concerned about their players' psyche to move players in and out of the starting lineup. IMO, a player has to string along an impressive stretch of games to unseat a starter; and in many instances, that stretch will only earn the player more playing time, not starter-status.

I agree. Players in the NFL do not get shuffled around often at all. It's not like baseball where there are a ton of games. Most of the time, injuries are the real reason or if a team is out of the hunt and a coach needs to evaluate players for the following season.

Well, I guess we can just agree to disagree then, no biggie.

I am surprised to see both of you say that weekly position changes rarely happen in the NFL, though. Aside from QB, which I agree it's rare but does happen, ie, Steve Spurrier, the other skill positions have this happen regularly.

[JaySmooov]

@Rgiles and JaySmooov, I feel what you both are saying but IMO, you both are overlooking a key point. If the OVR of starters are that close to the OVR of bench players, at any position, this would naturally creates realistic position battles.

On ANY real life NFL team, at ANY position, if the starter and a bench player's skill set is close, the coach will play whichever guy is playing best, at that time. Especially in the case of RB's and even with RB's by committee by starting the "hot" RB but this also applies to QB, WR, DB, etc.

My point is if players on teams in Madden 12 have;

A) Real OVR at various positions, close enough to other players, that streaks can make one's OVR better than the other

And/Or

B) Are so drastically inconsistent they could have a starting OVR one week but a bench OVR the next, Madden 12 should and I believe will reflect that through weekly auto updated depth charts.

The Panthers QB situation last year would seem to fit the bill, but that had nothing to do with having the hot player in the lineup. All those QBs sucked last year. None of them were remotely good. And again, Donny basically confirmed teams wont shuffle guys in and out who are struggling