Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

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  • ChrisHewy
    Rookie
    • Nov 2003
    • 18

    #556
    Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

    Originally posted by JaySmooov
    I know I'm not an EA dev or anything, but I still want to give my opinion.

    That was intriguing, even after reading it a second and third time to digest the info. I'm thinking Flacco is comfortable in the offense enough to where he'd throw around 30 times a game. Their offense isn't predicated around throwing the ball anyway, it's more run oriented. But if Flacco were to get hurt, they would tailor the offense down and basically have the back-up be a game manager, similar to how the Steelers treated the Big Ben situation.

    Your second point is interesting also. Would a team like the Vikings, who has a rookie QB but outstanding weapons, have more of a scripted gameplan for Ponder until he grows and matures? More importantly, is this limited to just the CPU, or can WE do it as well? I'd like to think Viking fans don't want to throw the kitchen sink at Ponder when playing as him in a dynasty, with all the traits and hot/cold streaks. The same could be said for the Titans and Jags (Looking forward to building around Gabbert ) and Panther fans.

    Also I could be wrong, but teams will scout guys and look for guys in FA that fit their schemes (or personalities - Raiders drafting speed). Teams that run a 3-4 won't look for 4-3 outside LBs.
    Even though the Ravens offense is currently more of a power run scheme(and for the "coming NFL season"...if it happens, it should certainly be more run based except against weaker pass Ds), I wouldn't be surprised based on recent talk if they started moving more towards a pass oriented scheme(Cam and John both want Joe to have more control over the offense and are going to work on pre-snap adjustments with him if/when football resumes). Flacco obviously has the arm for it, but then how does he adjust to that? If he fails in it(or I guess YOU fail in it), does the game suggest more run plays to counter that, and long-term do the gameplans adjust to that? Same with the rookies, if one booms(let's say, Ponder), do they take the load off the RB and try and get the ball out to the WRs more frequently?

    I guess when it comes to defensive schemes I think of a recent draftee: Von Miller. Came from a 34 scheme as an elite level pass rusher with good "run and chase" ability. As far as gameplanning goes on defense and personnel and such, how do the Broncos gameplan in Madden on D to fit him with his strengths given Fox's 43 scheme? Does he line up at DE in 3rd down situations(and how does he perform)? In run situations does he line up at OLB? What about 34 sets, and how frequently are they used in the rebuilding years? Do they dissipate over time as "Fox"/you find(s) personnel for that defense?

    This is why I'm so intrigued by this, the potential in developing the logic in how this works could really define Madden for years to come, and provide a more streamlined game experience(which helps those of us who are "growing up" and running low on time these days and don't have the chance to customize gameplans and such ourselves).

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    • bh446066
      MVP
      • Jul 2002
      • 2134

      #557
      Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

      I must have missed it among the 50+ pages....did we find out what the active gameday roster size was going to be, and what (if any) the practice quad would be?
      Currently playing:

      MLB 21 The Show
      College Hoops 2K8
      Pro Evolution Soccer 2018
      NHL 19
      NCAA Football 14/11
      NBA 2K16
      Madden 20

      Comment

      • bh446066
        MVP
        • Jul 2002
        • 2134

        #558
        Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

        Originally posted by JaySmooov
        No practice squads, but there are the Expanded rosters and cut days. After cut days/entire preseason you're down to the normal 53. There is a functioning IR, where you get a roster spot if a guy goes on IR.
        n/m found my answer...
        Currently playing:

        MLB 21 The Show
        College Hoops 2K8
        Pro Evolution Soccer 2018
        NHL 19
        NCAA Football 14/11
        NBA 2K16
        Madden 20

        Comment

        • roadman
          *ll St*r
          • Aug 2003
          • 26339

          #559
          Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

          Originally posted by Skyboxer
          Yeah, even the developers (Although it was a BS statement) said they built from the ground up and that's why everything was bare bones.
          BS statement because some of the same things, like the RB ICON glitch, was in the "built from the ground up", game.
          In any case I don't think I've ever seen them say it was due to memory etc..
          Sky, just today, a article was produced by ESPN.

          "In the past, we had issues with memory in the game and we could only allow 55 players per team," "Madden 12's" senior designer Josh Looman explained. "This limitation gave us problems with injured reserve and didn't enable us to give people roster downloads that were accurate. So we knew that it was imperative that we fixed that, and now our shipped rosters and our roster updates will be expanded.

          Comment

          • mattsb84
            Rookie
            • Dec 2007
            • 378

            #560
            Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

            Originally posted by roadman
            Sky, just today, a article was produced by ESPN.

            "In the past, we had issues with memory in the game and we could only allow 55 players per team," "Madden 12's" senior designer Josh Looman explained. "This limitation gave us problems with injured reserve and didn't enable us to give people roster downloads that were accurate. So we knew that it was imperative that we fixed that, and now our shipped rosters and our roster updates will be expanded.

            http://espn.go.com/espn/thelife/vide...more=fullstory
            Sounds like rubbish. Broken IR/incorrect roster sizes have plagued madden for over a decade. I can see the argument for last gen not having it due to memory issues...but I'm curious to know why it would take 5+ years to resolve something for an engine that was supposedly rebuilt for current gen.

            Comment

            • bo4345
              Rookie
              • Apr 2009
              • 115

              #561
              Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

              Originally posted by NaturalSelected
              Thanks for confirming this. A little disappointing considering that potential drives a lot of things in Franchise, whether or not it's hidden. Still, if I can change ratings, ultimately adjustments can be made yearly if really necessary.
              I know a way to at least raise a players potential which has worked in M10 and 11. You raise their overall to your desired rating then drop it back down to the regular, their potential will be the rating you gave them. But there is no way to lower potential that I know of.

              Comment

              • PSRusse83
                Rookie
                • Mar 2011
                • 138

                #562
                Originally posted by Sanchez_Mareno
                Love all this HC stuff. Hopefully next year they add play knowledge
                That would be awesome and if they also brought in the Production rating to Madden as well I think it would add some depth to the way CPU teams sign and cut players.
                Heres to hoping that Looman stays for at least the next three years.

                Comment

                • Sandbox
                  Rookie
                  • May 2010
                  • 64

                  #563
                  Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

                  Originally posted by roadman
                  Sky, just today, a article was produced by ESPN.

                  "In the past, we had issues with memory in the game and we could only allow 55 players per team," "Madden 12's" senior designer Josh Looman explained. "This limitation gave us problems with injured reserve and didn't enable us to give people roster downloads that were accurate. So we knew that it was imperative that we fixed that, and now our shipped rosters and our roster updates will be expanded.

                  http://espn.go.com/espn/thelife/vide...more=fullstory
                  Tibouron may have had their own issues with the memory,
                  but the reason certainly wasn't a "lack of memory" after moving to next gen, as another poster previously said. Moving from the Xbox to the 360 the RAM available to the devs increased 8-fold. IMO, sounds like excuses for terrible code optimization.

                  Comment

                  • RedZoneD25
                    MVP
                    • Aug 2008
                    • 2963

                    #564
                    Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

                    Originally posted by Sandbox
                    Tibouron may have had their own issues with the memory,
                    but the reason certainly wasn't a "lack of memory" after moving to next gen, as another poster previously said. Moving from the Xbox to the 360 the RAM available to the devs increased 8-fold. IMO, sounds like excuses for terrible code optimization.

                    It's not an excuse, the developers have said outright that they are very limited due to the code they currently have and it'd be tough to re-write and have ready in one cycle. Whatever the case, they supposedly have it working now so I'm going to call it water under the bridge.

                    Comment

                    • Hooe
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Aug 2002
                      • 21555

                      #565
                      Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

                      Originally posted by Sandbox
                      Tibouron may have had their own issues with the memory,
                      but the reason certainly wasn't a "lack of memory" after moving to next gen, as another poster previously said. Moving from the Xbox to the 360 the RAM available to the devs increased 8-fold. IMO, sounds like excuses for terrible code optimization.
                      No, it wasn't an "excuse". Increasing roster limits to 75 has far-reaching effects beyond just allowing the user more flexibility.

                      Foremost is a RAM issue; RAM used holding bigger rosters in memory can't be used elsewhere, and if Madden was already pushing the limits of the RAM capacity of the 360/PS3 then that sort of change isn't cheap. Particularly in an in-game setting (i.e. Play Now), if 75-man rosters are allowed, that's 20 players worth of memory that was previously used for (presumably) graphical assets that has to be reclaimed.

                      Another big issue is franchise mode itself. The AI has to be allowed to utilize 75 man rosters as well if the user can, and as such the roster management AI had to be rewritten to account for more roster space. Further, the incremental cut days of the preseason also have to be taken into account; logic had to be added to handle cutdowns. Third, the RAM for the rosters used in franchise mode, along with larger draft classes to keep this roster populated properly, has to come from somewhere.

                      The bottom line is that EA wasn't lazy, it simply wasn't a change they could make without a dedicated portion of their team working to completely gut Madden to support the change in the roster size. They decided that was important enough starting at the end of the Madden 10 cycle, and we're seeing the results of that process now.

                      Comment

                      • GiantBlue76
                        Banned
                        • Jun 2007
                        • 3287

                        #566
                        Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

                        I don't think anyone can deny that there definitely were some big mistakes made over at Tiburon since 2005. IMHO, from what I have read and heard from people who know, there really was a mess created in the code from previous development efforts. They are basically re-writing Madden piece by piece to fix the damage that was done over the previous years. Now don't get my wrong, as a consumer, it's not my problem that they messed it up and therefore they don't get a free pass. However, what's done is done and the fact that they are really trying to fix it now is what's important.

                        Comment

                        • Sandbox
                          Rookie
                          • May 2010
                          • 64

                          #567
                          Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

                          Originally posted by CHooe
                          Foremost is a RAM issue; RAM used holding bigger rosters in memory can't be used elsewhere, and if Madden was already pushing the limits of the RAM capacity of the 360/PS3 then that sort of change isn't cheap. Particularly in an in-game setting (i.e. Play Now), if 75-man rosters are allowed, that's 20 players worth of memory that was previously used for (presumably) graphical assets that has to be reclaimed.
                          sigh,
                          while playing Madden, most of the RAM is used to "hold" textures of players (on the field and sidelines). When adding players to the roster they're not increasing the number of players on the field or sidelines. In other words the RAM isn't being used to "hold" textures of players that aren't visually present.
                          And simply increasing the players in a database(roster) has little impact on memory anyways, since all that is contained are parameters(ratings etc.) for said players. Do you know how big the current Madden roster file is? 624KB, that's very small.
                          Simply put, the devs have not taken away from "graphical assets" to expand a database, after all they managed to put 3d grass back in this year.
                          How did they pull that off with all those "memory issues" and still manage to increase roster size?

                          Originally posted by tazdevil20
                          I don't think anyone can deny that there definitely were some big mistakes made over at Tiburon since 2005. IMHO, from what I have read and heard from people who know, there really was a mess created in the code from previous development efforts. They are basically re-writing Madden piece by piece to fix the damage that was done over the previous years. Now don't get my wrong, as a consumer, it's not my problem that they messed it up and therefore they don't get a free pass. However, what's done is done and the fact that they are really trying to fix it now is what's important.
                          And that's pretty much what I'm getting at.

                          Originally posted by WTFitsDaveyJ
                          It's not an excuse
                          Maybe it's semantics, but I heard "memory issues" instead of poor coding and it sounding like they were passing the blame.

                          Originally posted by WTFitsDaveyJ
                          the developers have said outright that they are very limited due to the code they currently have and it'd be tough to re-write and have ready in one cycle.
                          So the devs have admitted as much themselves, I'm surprised but pleased with their honesty.

                          Comment

                          • Icarus2k9
                            Rookie
                            • Jul 2009
                            • 118

                            #568
                            Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

                            Originally posted by JaySmooov

                            Where are you reading that potential get's revealed after 4 weeks? If you're talking about after week 4 of the preseason, then that may be understandable. But there's really no reason to just keep cutting and re-signing players until you find all-A potential players.
                            Thanks for the reply on that one. As long as the progression system allows for rookies to get better on the bench to a certain extent (maybe first three years) then I'm on board with your optimism. If people don't always hit their potential, then that would make the definition of "potential" a lot more subjective and I wouldn't mind seeing the grade at all...

                            ..though that would mean a C/D/F grader would have to be able to exceed their potential, and that's something I used to argue against very strongly because it leads to people pumping up their player's stats with unrealistic on field stats (I believe certain players should never be able to exceed their physical potential, because that's how humanity works, but I'm not derailing this thread to open up THAT can of worms )

                            Comment

                            • GGEden
                              Rookie
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 228

                              #569
                              Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

                              Good post, sandbox. Well said.
                              Kilroy was here

                              Comment

                              • roadman
                                *ll St*r
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 26339

                                #570
                                Re: Madden NFL 12 Blog - Franchise Mode in Madden 12

                                Originally posted by Sandbox
                                sigh,










                                So the devs have admitted as much themselves, I'm surprised but pleased with their honesty.
                                Ian had said that plenty of times. They had to rip out old code from run blocking and put in new code.

                                I know after 10 was out, Phil mentioned that showing the outside of stadiums with traffic and what not, ate up a lot of memory.

                                I know you stated earlier to stop saying it because it didn't happen, but the developers are the one's stating it.
                                Last edited by roadman; 05-19-2011, 08:03 AM.

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