Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

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  • FAIRDALE_KINGS
    Pro
    • May 2003
    • 778

    #1

    Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

    Basically I want to know what the community feels about:

    DB at WR
    WR at TE
    CB at QB
    FS at DE
    All are cheese
    Some are Cheese
    None are cheese






    Backstory:
    I was playing in an online dynasty with five other guys. In year 2035, one of the guys coaching LSU began playing his 95 overall FS at WR (99 speed, 99 acceleration, 76 catch). The thing is that he wasn't even playing defense because he was the third-best Free Safety on the roster. The guy is 46 years old and is a great guy. He has been the commissioner of multiple leagues and other online dynasties that I have played in. He's actually won four BCS titles during our current 25 year dynasty. After the season was over the commish (Alabama) told the guy that if wanted to continue using the Free Safety on offense as a Wide Receiver that he needed to change his position to WR. He was no longer allowed to use Formation Subs and play the FS at WR. He would have to take the penalty and lose his 87 Awareness.


    When week seven arrived in 2036 and the commish (who has won 15 titles) was looking at the stats he noticed that the Free Safety was still playing Wide Receiver... and was also listed at the #3 CB. (No big deal about a FS playing CB... but it was weird because the starting FS was an 80 overall.) The commish wasn't upset. In fact, he told the LSU coach that he could play the FS at WR and that he would beat him by 42 points again this year... But in the future there would be an "official" league rule prohibiting such tactics.

    The commish argued that it would be cheese using a fast CB at QB exclusively to run Ace Big Speed Option all day... or line-up in 5 WR and run Four Verticals and scramble with a 99 speed player. He said that FS or CB at WR was no different than a CB at QB or using a FS lined up at DE.

    Well... the LSU coach resigned immediately and said that he couldn't remain in the dynasty under those conditions. And that the rule ruins the spirit of the college game. When I talked to the LSU coach about the issue he brought up Deion Sanders (Cowboys WR/CB), Troy Brown (Patriots WR/CB) and Devin Hester (Bears WR/CB).

    I told him that those arguments were apples and oranges. You can not compare college football with pro football. In college the players are only allowed to practice 20 hours per week. In pro football there are no limits and they can watch film all day. I also shot down his examples and let him know that Deion and Devin Hester never had a reception in college. And that Troy Brown had one interception at Marshall during the 1-AA National Championship intercepting a Hail Mary vs. Youngstown State. He was only use in prevent.

    I also understand that Chris Gamble (Ohio State) and Charles Woodson (Michigan) had significant impacts as players that played both ways. Gamble started 5 games in 2002 on both offense and defense. Woodson had 25 catches and 3 TDs in two years playing both ways.


    Anyway... I'm the commissioner of a 1* dynasty which we just started two weeks ago. Right before all of this happened in the other dynasty. Today I played the LSU guy who is coaching New Mexico State in my dynasty. Recently I purchased the Hauppauge! so that I can record my dynasty games. After the game was over I tallied the totals and discovered that the N.M. State coach had played his best CB at Wide Receiver for 23 of the 36 plays either in Ace Big or Pistol Slot.

    Five of those plays that he didn't line-up on offense he was in either Goal Line (twice) or 5 WR (three) throwing Hail Mary passes. So basically 23 of 31 plays this guy lined up his CB at Wide Receiver. Fourteen times he lined up his 95 speed WR at Tight End against my 74 speed outside linebackers playing for Army.

    My feelings are that he is just lining up his fastest players and trying to exploit their speed. He user catches everything and he threw multiple bombs to the CB. Yes he caught 1 pass for 50 yards but I defended the other four attempts. The WR didn't kill me by any means but it is BS to defend. I don't want to be forced to use my fastest WR at CB to defend his CB at WR. His WR at Tight End caught two critical passes in the first and second overtime periods leaving the slower LBer covering him as he ran Inside Cross. Again... it is hard enough trying to defend TE's running crossing patterns because they can NOT be bumped at the line. But now defending a blazing fast WR lined up at TE who is unbumpable running a crossing route is worse. I don't want to put a CB at LB to guard him in the Ace Big set.


    If I wanted to play this way I would use play in the East Lobby online and not in a dynasty with friends.



    Please share your thoughts and discuss...
    134
    DB playing WR
    0%
    1
    WR playing TE
    0%
    6
    CB playing QB
    0%
    11
    FS playing DE
    0%
    6
    All are cheese
    0%
    48
    Some are cheese
    0%
    43
    None are cheese
    0%
    19
    EA Sports College Football 25 content creator

    My YouTube Vids: https://www.youtube.com/@FAIRDALEKINGS
  • Gotmadskillzson
    Live your life
    • Apr 2008
    • 23442

    #2
    Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

    CB @ QB and FS @ DE are cheese and would never happen in real life. The others however have happened in real life before.

    Comment

    • FAIRDALE_KINGS
      Pro
      • May 2003
      • 778

      #3
      Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

      Ok....

      I understand that they have happened before. But can you justify a player playing CB for every snap on defense, 23 of 31 snaps on offense at WR, returning punts & kick-offs... and never becoming fatigued???

      If someone wants to use a guy for a few plays here and there in special packages I may not have such a problem with a CB or FS playing WR. Just not 75% of the time.


      Also... a 6'1 169 lb Wide Receiver lined up at Tight End would get destroyed. Instead the guy played in the Ace Big formation 14 plays and he actually had three pancake blocks against my DE and OLB.

      That's realistic?!? That would happen in a real game.
      Last edited by FAIRDALE_KINGS; 05-21-2011, 09:40 PM.
      EA Sports College Football 25 content creator

      My YouTube Vids: https://www.youtube.com/@FAIRDALEKINGS

      Comment

      • dan_457
        MVP
        • Jan 2010
        • 4106

        #4
        Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

        I'm going with all Cheese on this one, because to me, they're are clearly being abused.
        -Ohio State-

        -Cleveland Browns-

        -Cleveland Cavaliers-

        Comment

        • 3bitz
          MVP
          • Mar 2003
          • 1523

          #5
          Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

          Experimenting isn't a bad thing. I watched Oklahoma do this for years as well as any other school in America. Roy Williams played snaps on the line in the 2000 National Championship game as well at Linebacker and Safety.Andre Wolfolk played everywhere Bobby Stoops begged him to play. Utility guys are supposed to be special.
          Last edited by 3bitz; 05-21-2011, 09:49 PM.

          Comment

          • usc50
            Rookie
            • May 2011
            • 100

            #6
            Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

            Cheesing, all of them. Why did you allow him in your 1* dynasty when you know that he quit another dynasty because he wasn't allowed to cheese?

            Comment

            • Tengo Juego
              MVP
              • Dec 2007
              • 2524

              #7
              Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

              When it's used to take advantage of the mis-match, or abused over and over, it gets cheesy. Putting an exceptionally fast player at an unnatural position to beat slower defenders is understandably frustrating for the opposition.

              But taking a FS, and using him solely as a WR, and not switching him to the position because of the drop in ratings, is fine in my book. Really, it's about how the player is playing with these players in different positions.

              Comment

              • volstopfan14
                MVP
                • Jul 2010
                • 2307

                #8
                Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

                CB at QB and FS at DE are cheese. I think it's ok if a DB gets a few snaps on offense but not full time. If a WR is playing TE, it really depends on the player for me. If it is some little Percy Harvin type WR, then yes it is cheese. If it is a big receiver like Brandon Marshall I think it is ok.
                Tennessee Volunteers
                Charlotte Hornets

                Comment

                • SlickRick11
                  Rookie
                  • Apr 2011
                  • 287

                  #9
                  Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

                  CB @ QB and FS @ DE are cheese for sure.....I'd never allow it in a dynasty that I was running and wouldn't play in a dynasty in which its allowed..... the others are borderline but not nearly as cheese as the other ones
                  From 1983-1996 Miami went (144-24)

                  -5 time National Champions (the same as Florida and Florida State.....COMBINED)

                  Comment

                  • morganic
                    Rookie
                    • Jun 2006
                    • 156

                    #10
                    Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

                    I would have to say all cheese there. Normally I wouldn't complain about CB at WR, but 23 of 31 snaps is just ridiculous when also playing all defensive snaps.
                    Bring back the Chief!

                    Comment

                    • FAIRDALE_KINGS
                      Pro
                      • May 2003
                      • 778

                      #11
                      Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

                      Originally posted by usc50
                      Cheesing, all of them. Why did you allow him in your 1* dynasty when you know that he quit another dynasty because he wasn't allowed to cheese?
                      We started this 1* dynasty a week before any of this happened. I have played in five or six leagues with this guy as the commissioner and have never had ONE problem. In fact... we were 25 years into the dynasty which he retired from. In that twenty-five year time frame he played well over 325+ games and never once did we have any trouble.

                      Right now I honestly believe that he played the CB at Wide Receiver to see how I would respond. Did I lose the game today? Yes.

                      Was him playing the CB at Wide Receiver or WR at Tight End the deciding factor in my loss? No.


                      I had several opportunities to win the game and just came up short losing 37-34 in double overtime. I'm not crying about this or bringing it up because I lost. But I have several other people in the dynasty that played in the other dynasty and they were against his tactics, too. I need to decide how to handle this situation.

                      The guy is a really nice guy, a good friend... but he won't budge and feels that it isn't cheese. He's dead set in his ways.

                      Here are his exact words:

                      "Note that I am not telling you this stuff to get you in riot gear. I am trying to explain that the 'that's cheese' cries of early days of online play no longer have a place in today's games. Games have been made no where there is no "money play." Plays can be stopped if defense adjust, offense adjust. This isn't NFL 2K1. I mean, saying "no 4th down attempts" would work for (someone who loses all the time) - he would never serve on Les Miles staff. The guy I use, the CB, caught 1 pass and is mainly used as a decoy and helps prevent all out blitzes vs the run. You don't have to like it, but it is another coach's "play set", not cheese. It is made to make opponent's feel uncomfortable. Creativity is rampant in the college football I enjoy and it's why so many teams went to weird formations such as the spread again- the old veer. You can hate it, just don't label it."
                      EA Sports College Football 25 content creator

                      My YouTube Vids: https://www.youtube.com/@FAIRDALEKINGS

                      Comment

                      • Hooe
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 21555

                        #12
                        Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

                        I personally used Virginia CB Ras-I Dowling at receiver at times (as a fourth WR in shotgun formations) in this past year's game, and in NCAA 09 one of my friends playing as Virginia Tech used Macho Harris as his 3rd WR routinely. As such, DB at WR doesn't seem too farfetched to me.

                        The only time I ever have played a DB at QB is in Madden 03 when, playing against a different friend, all three of my on-roster quarterbacks were injured in the same game, lol. It wasn't very effective, needless to say, but I don't run the option and the option wasn't even available in Madden 03 in the first place.

                        I'd say that, of all those options, I'd let the DB at WR slide, but not anything else. If there was a DB at DE, I think I'd just run at that DB all day, but I don't know that I'd necessarily call it "cheese". I'm a bit iffy on WR at TE, though I'd like to think that playing a flipped nickel defense (to get the nickel back matched up with the tight end in man coverage) could somewhat counter this. The only one I have an egregious issue with is the CB at QB specifically for running the option, but that's mainly due to my opinion that the speed option in particular can't be properly defended in these games.

                        Comment

                        • usc50
                          Rookie
                          • May 2011
                          • 100

                          #13
                          Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

                          Originally posted by FAIRDALE_KINGS
                          "Note that I am not telling you this stuff to get you in riot gear. I am trying to explain that the 'that's cheese' cries of early days of online play no longer have a place in today's games. Games have been made no where there is no "money play." Plays can be stopped if defense adjust, offense adjust. This isn't NFL 2K1. I mean, saying "no 4th down attempts" would work for (someone who loses all the time) - he would never serve on Les Miles staff. The guy I use, the CB, caught 1 pass and is mainly used as a decoy and helps prevent all out blitzes vs the run. You don't have to like it, but it is another coach's "play set", not cheese. It is made to make opponent's feel uncomfortable. Creativity is rampant in the college football I enjoy and it's why so many teams went to weird formations such as the spread again- the old veer. You can hate it, just don't label it."
                          In my opinion, that is still abusing it because say you decide to not cover him, then bam, he'll be open and get some big yards. He's basically saying "I'm either taking the user out of the equation by forcing him to user cover my DB when I have no intent on actually passing to him so it's more like me vs the CPU or I'm going to use my DB to get big plays if the user opts to not user cover him and cover someone else." I consider it cheesing but it's your call.
                          Last edited by usc50; 05-21-2011, 10:14 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Gotmadskillzson
                            Live your life
                            • Apr 2008
                            • 23442

                            #14
                            Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

                            Originally posted by FAIRDALE_KINGS
                            Ok....

                            I understand that they have happened before. But can you justify a player playing CB for every snap on defense, 23 of 31 snaps on offense at WR, returning punts & kick-offs... and never becoming fatigued???

                            If someone wants to use a guy for a few plays here and there in special packages I may not have such a problem with a CB or FS playing WR. Just not 75% of the time.


                            Also... a 6'1 169 lb Wide Receiver lined up at Tight End would get destroyed. Instead the guy played in the Ace Big formation 14 plays and he actually had three pancake blocks against my DE and OLB.

                            That's realistic?!? That would happen in a real game.
                            That is just an EA issue with their rosters and not having weight actually matter. That being the case, you have evidence that is an exploit with this game, so I would set rules up and tell people don't be doing it 75% of the time due to the fact the players not getting tired and skinny people pancaking people twice their size.

                            Comment

                            • Roggie
                              MVP
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 1753

                              #15
                              Re: Is it cheese??? DB at WR or WR at TE

                              FS at DE and CB at QB are cheese. Tiny WR at TE is cheese. Big possession style WR at TE isn't cheese, and it'll kill you on run plays. DB at WR isn't cheese at all. As previously said, Macho Harris was Va Tech's 4th WR his senior year. On a couple of my teams, I've had a CB as my 4th WR. Starter? No way. And I run a lot of pro style offenses and only run 4 WRs when the situation calls for it. Having a guy play 75% of a game isn't usually realistic, but it's happened before. I personally have no issue with a CB at WR, but the rest I have issues with. FS at DE will NEVER happen, and CB at QB only happens when the CB has QB skills (there was one who did this a couple years ago. I'm thinking at Virginia, but I can't think of his name. Dude was QUICK and utilized in a Wildcat role).
                              North Carolina Tar Heels
                              Virginia Tech Hokies
                              Michigan Wolverines
                              Chicago Bulls
                              Detroit Tigers
                              Detroit Red Wings
                              Detroit Lions

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