First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

[speels]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

The problem is, IMPROVED PLAYER AI, does not sell the games to the masses, that are mainly NOT hockey enthusiasts so you will never see that as a first, second, or third enhancement. EA knows, as well as I do, that "hardcore" hockey gamers will buy this game because they love hockey, especially since there are no other options this year , so they don't need to market the AI, but by adding goalie fights, which by the way even non hockey people enjoy seeing highlights of, they are appealing to a broader base.

Believe it or not, but they are a company trying to make money, not cater to a select few.
Yes it sucks, but just because it is not the first thing they talk about doesn't mean it's not in the final product.

[Vikes1]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

Yes it sucks, but just because it is not the first thing they talk about doesn't mean it's not in the final product.

Voice of reason.

The "details" that can make a huge difference in how a game plays, most likely will be one of...if not the last thing, put out to the public. After all the more obvious things are put out there.

[savoie2006]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

The problem is, IMPROVED PLAYER AI, does not sell the games to the masses, that are mainly NOT hockey enthusiasts so you will never see that as a first, second, or third enhancement. EA knows, as well as I do, that "hardcore" hockey gamers will buy this game because they love hockey, especially since there are no other options this year , so they don't need to market the AI, but by adding goalie fights, which by the way even non hockey people enjoy seeing highlights of, they are appealing to a broader base.

Believe it or not, but they are a company trying to make money, not cater to a select few.
Yes it sucks, but just because it is not the first thing they talk about doesn't mean it's not in the final product.

How many "casual" hockey fans do you know? I know they are in it for making money and they have to cater to "casuals" as well, but they have to try to cater to the diehards as well. While they have done some of that with all the "little" things in the game, they could do more gameplay wise. There is something called sliders and difficulty settings that can be tuned accordingly. So if they do decide to make the game very realistic, it can easily be tuned to be more "casual" friendly. They can do this for both online and offline. The hardcore guys should not have to be in a league full of casuals that buy up boosts and guys that have no idea how the game of hockey is played. It's possible a game can be both sim and arcade, but EA has to finish fixing the issues that keep this game from being a hockey simulation.

[savoie2006]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

by adding goalie fights, which by the way even non hockey people enjoy seeing highlights of, they are appealing to a broader base.

Who boxing fans?

[iax]

One word. Underwhelming. Still the same robotic player movement (upper body and lower body completely different entities). Might as rename the series NHL HITZ. Or wait, somebody already did that... 8 years ago. That's how underwhelming this is...

[Money99]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

I don't think we do either, it's just a vent session and there is plenty reason to be negative with this series.

Exactly. That video isn't for OS. It's for casual fans or people on the fence.
And I realize how negative I was in my post and it was mostly just to vent.

But like Fiddy, savoie and Vikes pointed out, I think most of the people who buy this game are hockey fans.
But being a hockey fan, and a cheesy gamer are two different things. I look at my 8-year-old son and he'll do the same move over and over if it means he can win. He doesn't even care if it's boring or repetitive, as long as he wins. It's just sad that most adults are still like then when gaming. So that's why EA wants cheese in their games. They want one or two moves to work over and over, and to allow every player on the ice to be able to do what Datsyuk, Stamkos or Ovechkin do on a nightly basis.

But I can't help to look at the success of NBA2K11 and believe that most sports gamers want realism. I know people who don't know a thing about basketball that love that game.

[DJ]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

Exactly. That video isn't for OS. It's for casual fans or people on the fence.
And I realize how negative I was in my post and it was mostly just to vent.

But like Fiddy, savoie and Vikes pointed out, I think most of the people who buy this game are hockey fans.
But being a hockey fan, and a cheesy gamer are two different things. I look at my 8-year-old son and he'll do the same move over and over if it means he can win. He doesn't even care if it's boring or repetitive, as long as he wins. It's just sad that most adults are still like then when gaming. So that's why EA wants cheese in their games. They want one or two moves to work over and over, and to allow every player on the ice to be able to do what Datsyuk, Stamkos or Ovechkin do on a nightly basis.

But I can't help to look at the success of NBA2K11 and believe that most sports gamers want realism. I know people who don't know a thing about basketball that love that game.

Very well said. I'm not a hockey "expert" but I'd like to consider myself fairly knowledgeable about the sport; I follow the Avs pretty closely and growing up in NY, I was always watching hockey even though I didn't have a favorite team as a lot of my closest friends and many of my relatives played the sport (I played basketball. You couldn't play both b/c both were winter sports). So, I have a good idea of what I want to see out on the virtual ice.

There are some things NHL does very, very well. It's not like the game is complete rubbish. But, at the end of the day, the arcade elements definitely take over compared to what we would consider simulation. I'd love for more realistic battling on the boards for the puck. I'd love to see better center ice play (teams using different trapping systems), and of course, I'd love to see a revamped sim engine.

Like you said, NBA 2K11 produced a mostly sim game with some arcade elements and it sold over 5 million copies. A good number of those copies were bought by people who are very casual basketball fans. It goes to show that if you make the game mirror what we see on TV, people will buy the game.

MLB The Show on the PS3 is the same way. There's a thread on the forums with over 100 posts by people who specifically BOUGHT a PS3 just to play that game. That should tell you all you need to know about people wanting a simulation product. You don't spend $500 if you want to cheese a game and rack up a ton of goals/points/runs. You spend that money when the game you are playing closely replicates what you watch on television, yet still offers that fun factor that brings you back game after game.

NHL keeps looking for clever marketing features, when really, that's not needed. The shotstick IS THE MARKETING! It was a brilliant addition and the tweaks they've made to the mechanic have only helped improve the game. The focus now should be on making the game as true to real life as possible. Adding the Winter Classic (yes, I know it's a few years late, but better than not having it again) is a step in the right direction, as is increasing the presentation elements. Those touches help with the immersion factor.

NOW, the key has to be with the on-ice play. Like Money said, we've got to have a game where exploits are null and void. I give the Madden and NCAA teams credit as they took an honest look at their game and FINALLY addressed the defensive side of the ball, fixing both man and zone coverage. I think we'd all love to see NHL take that next step.

Clearly there's a lot of passionate people on this board about hockey. That's great to see. I'm hoping that NHL 12 moves us closer to that true simulation of the sport that we've all been craving the past few years. EA's been like a baby, crawling on the floor. It's time for them to get up off the carpet and take some steps on its own.

[speels]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

How many "casual" hockey fans do you know? I know they are in it for making money and they have to cater to "casuals" as well, but they have to try to cater to the diehards as well. While they have done some of that with all the "little" things in the game, they could do more gameplay wise. There is something called sliders and difficulty settings that can be tuned accordingly. So if they do decide to make the game very realistic, it can easily be tuned to be more "casual" friendly. They can do this for both online and offline. The hardcore guys should not have to be in a league full of casuals that buy up boosts and guys that have no idea how the game of hockey is played. It's possible a game can be both sim and arcade, but EA has to finish fixing the issues that keep this game from being a hockey simulation.

I think there is a misunderstanding with my post. I am not saying they shouldn't fix the stuff "hardcore" hockey fans want fixed, I was just saying that to the general public that is not what will get them interested in the game, so that will be why EA won't make that a priority in their marketing of the game. Broken glass and huge hits excite people that don't even know hockey or are casual watchers, these are the people EA targets with their initial marketing of the "new features". We will here about all the "hardcore" fixes soon enough.

[plaidchuck]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

What I've learned is that if they don't mention some kind of change or enhancement to a mode early on, nothing will be done with it. People always hold out like it will be some last minute announcement and then are mad when it doesn't come. What were the big things last year? HUT and RFA right? So this year don't expect any changes to: arenas, sim engine, BAGM, skating engine, roster sharing, etc. So far we've seen big hitting, goalie fights/collisions, and BAP improvements. If you expect anything else you'll be sorely disappointed.

EDIT: Well I guess there will be improvements to the sim engine.. gotta see that to believe it though, they've claimed fixes to the engie in '10 and '11 and nothing really was changed other than getting rid of the constant one goal games.

[savoie2006]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

I think there is a misunderstanding with my post. I am not saying they shouldn't fix the stuff "hardcore" hockey fans want fixed, I was just saying that to the general public that is not what will get them interested in the game, so that will be why EA won't make that a priority in their marketing of the game. Broken glass and huge hits excite people that don't even know hockey or are casual watchers, these are the people EA targets with their initial marketing of the "new features". We will here about all the "hardcore" fixes soon enough.

Yeah, I understand to promote the crap that will draw in casuals first(Goalie Fights, Shatter Glass from checks), it just bothers me.

[cheechoo98]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

Welcome to the year 2009, EA...

bench checks, goalie collisions, Winter Classic, goalies looking thru screens... I like to raz on EA, for doing these things that have been in the 2K series for ages...

...but I do admit, they have 'taken' everything from the 2K series and made them BETTER than 2K ever did, I guess.

I guess I'm still bitter about my beloved 2K series these past few years.. and how it never got the credit it deserved. If more people bought 2K, we might have had some competition to EA's game.

Here's a some vids from yrs ago in 2K10;

Goalie Looks thru screen

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=518913

Bench Checked, then Goal!

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=1004566

Butt-Checked, Goal!

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=1014092

Bench Checked then Goal 2

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=1004364

Winter Classic

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=841744

[actionhank]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

Welcome to the year 2009, EA...

bench checks, goalie collisions, Winter Classic, goalies looking thru screens... I like to raz on EA, for doing these things that have been in the 2K series for ages...

...but I do admit, they have 'taken' everything from the 2K series and made them BETTER than 2K ever did, I guess.

I guess I'm still bitter about my beloved 2K series these past few years.. and how it never got the credit it deserved. If more people bought 2K, we might have had some competition to EA's game.

Here's a some vids from yrs ago in 2K10;

Goalie Looks thru screen

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=518913

Bench Checked, then Goal!

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=1004566

Butt-Checked, Goal!

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=1014092

Bench Checked then Goal 2

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=1004364

Winter Classic
http://community.2ksports.com/commun...mediaid=841744

While they were definitely there, i think they looked pretty bad. In my opinion, 2k sports games seem to have really bad animation problems where things just don't look right half the time. I've been playing a ton of MLB 2k11 and there are just so many instances where i'm just left scratching my head by the terrible animation sequences.
Also, it definitely didn't look like physics had anything to do with the hits. It looked like it was pretty much hip check near the boards and get a guy over.
Hopefully EA keeps things realistic. I'll be sad to see this game go to the Online/Arcade crowd

[savoie2006]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

Welcome to the year 2009, EA...

bench checks, goalie collisions, Winter Classic, goalies looking thru screens... I like to raz on EA, for doing these things that have been in the 2K series for ages...

...but I do admit, they have 'taken' everything from the 2K series and made them BETTER than 2K ever did, I guess.

I guess I'm still bitter about my beloved 2K series these past few years.. and how it never got the credit it deserved. If more people bought 2K, we might have had some competition to EA's game.

Here's a some vids from yrs ago in 2K10;

Goalie Looks thru screen

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=518913

Bench Checked, then Goal!

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=1004566

Butt-Checked, Goal!

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=1014092

Bench Checked then Goal 2

http://community.2ksports.com/community/media/viewer.cfm?mediaid=1004364

Winter Classic
http://community.2ksports.com/commun...mediaid=841744

I hear ya, but these kind of posts usually start EA vs 2K wars. Not that it will this time, being 2KHockey is apparently done, but still wouldn't have posted this in the EA Forums.

[savoie2006]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

While they were definitely there, i think they looked pretty bad. In my opinion, 2k sports games seem to have really bad animation problems where things just don't look right half the time. I've been playing a ton of MLB 2k11 and there are just so many instances where i'm just left scratching my head by the terrible animation sequences.
Also, it definitely didn't look like physics had anything to do with the hits. It looked like it was pretty much hip check near the boards and get a guy over.
Hopefully EA keeps things realistic. I'll be sad to see this game go to the Online/Arcade crowd

I wouldn't say the animations are bad, just not smooth as can be. Like with NHL 2K10, there are alot of cool animations that were more noticeable once the gameplay is slowed down. It's like the animation sequence was strung together too tight. Not to say that some of the animations don't look good. The tripping animation in NHL 2K10 was the worst I've seen ever. The videos he showed, the speed of the replay was sped up so it didn't look as cool as it would have had they been played at normal speed or slowed down a bit. I'm pretty sure the checking was physics based in 2K10 by the way.

[Section_25]

Re: First NHL 12 Video Posted, New Release Date Set [UPDATE: Extra Info Added]

The fighting engine looks the same. I hope they at least tweaked it so it's a little bit more realistic.