New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

[mattbooty]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

And this is the mentality that forces it to continue and eventually get out of control. And for some, yes, they can only spend a certain amount on a game. Some are not as lucky as you and I where a few dollars might not throw them off budget but they still want a fully featured game that they paid for.

Yeah I get the impression that most people who are arguing it are not arguing that they can't AFFORD the $7, they are just against the idea that they have to. It's something they feel should have just been included for free. Its not something I agree with but I understand where they are coming from.

[kevj349]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

The only thing I have a problem with is this mentality that EA is evil and trying to suck the life out of everyone. It is a good talk aside from the fact that more than half the people come up with unbased claims and are just making things up. For every valid post there are two following just making things up.

[mattbooty]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

I dislike EA Sports nickel and diming us and expanding that to different avenues of the game. I have a problem that the majority are fine with it. Pretty soon it'll be too late and I'll be saying I told ya so.

I see where you are coming from, but I really don't see this happening to that extent. I don't see any "I told you so" moment coming. Will there be more examples of DLC in the future? Absolutely. But I expect it to be more of what we are already seeing, add-ons to the base product. Obviously some people think its already gone too far, I'm not one of those and I don't expect that will happen and if it does, THEN I think you'll see sales drop off and when it proves a failure you'll see it stop.

In the meantime I'm not going to deny my own enjoyment of the game by refusing to buy an add-on I want just in case sometime down the road they start experimenting with more invasive DLC.

[kbmnm247]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

As in my previous post, I disagree that any of our money from last year's version went specifically into this year's version... It isn't like EA has a separate bank account and all the NCAA money goes in there and they say "we made $10 million off of NCAA 11 so that's how much we are spending on NCAA 12". Its totally different. They budget $XXX towards development of a game, which could shift somewhat based on the sales of the previous version, but for the most part the budget for NCAA 12 was set before NCAA 11 released. They know approximately how much they are going to make off each version before it ever comes out.

I completely disagree with this whole concept that we somehow paid for NCAA 12 to get made and so we are entitled to a specific feature-set. It just doesn't work that way.

If no one in the world bought NCAA 11, I mean 0 people, do you think they'd make an NCAA 12?

If you answered yes, then your logic is fine and we did not have anything to do with NCAA 12.

If you answered no, then YES we pay for NCAA 12, and our proceeds from NCAA 12 will go towards NCAA 13 and so on and so on. The money doesn't just disappear. It pays payroll, and production, and is reinvested in next years version in some way. I figured this was common knowledge.

[roadman]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

I don't even know what you are talking about with the bold statement. I went back and reread what you posted and what I posted in response, and then this quoted response and I still have no idea what you mean by it. What do you mean now it's more than just a $3 charge for me?

I dislike EA Sports nickel and diming us and expanding that to different avenues of the game. I have a problem that the majority are fine with it. Pretty soon it'll be too late and I'll be saying I told ya so.

No, you mentioned about the license and just buying EA games used but then you need to pay $10.00 for online fee. yada, yada yada

No need to bring that subject into it when it's not on topic.

[mattbooty]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

but they still want a fully featured game that they paid for.

Hehe, this is where you and I really don't see eye to eye. Nowhere on the NCAA 12 box (well... I assume so anyways, I haven't seen the box yet, EA could really screw me over on this one) does it say you are getting these web-enabled features as part of the box product, so they ARE getting the game they paid for. If these hypothetical people think they are getting them with their $60 it is THEY that are mistaken, and that's not EA's fault.

You can disagree with their decision to charge for these features but they aren't tricking anyone into buying one thing and getting another.

[kbmnm247]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

Yes they absolutely paid for the development of the web-enabled features,

but there is no direct correlation between your NCAA 11 $60 and that getting done.

Yes, I understand budgetting 100%. And yes, McDonald's needs to make money to stay in business, but you are not buying development time, you are buying a burger, plain and simple. McDonald's sets a price based on what they need to cover their costs and make a profit, but this isn't like the old "I pay your salary with my tax dollars" argument, you chose to buy a burger, you can't call up McDonalds and demand they change the way it tastes because you have some stake in their company having spent a few bucks there. Same with NCAA, you are entitled to nothing because you bought a previous game. That $60 bought you NCAA 11, there are no future guarantees.

How is money paid for NCAA 11 paying for the development of the NCAA 12 web features NOT a direct correlation? You basically said it yourself that it's a direct correlation, cmon man.

YOU ARE BUYING THE DEVELOPMENT TIME. What do you think happens with that? The companies just eat the costs of development as a loss? No. They price the burger at a price that they can get consumers and cover all of their costs (ALL OF THEIR COSTS) and still make profit. That's the whole point of budgeting, to set costs and create a profit from the end unit.

[mattbooty]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

If no one in the world bought NCAA 11, I mean 0 people, do you think they'd make an NCAA 12?

If you answered yes, then your logic is fine and we did not have anything to do with NCAA 12.

If you answered no, then YES we pay for NCAA 12, and our proceeds from NCAA 12 will go towards NCAA 13 and so on and so on. The money doesn't just disappear. It pays payroll, and production, and is reinvested in next years version in some way. I figured this was common knowledge.

Absolutely, if sales figures drop enough they'll stop making NCAA, absolutely, but you did not pay for NCAA 12. If I buy a 2011 Toyota Camry, I did not pay for the 2012 model also, regardless of where that money went...

Yes, I'm not stupid, I understand that money that is mine, when given to someone else, will then go on to do many wonderful things in the world, that does not mean I-ME-MYSELF paid for them. I pay interest on a mortgage every month, the bank takes my interest money and used that money to fund loans to hundreds/thousands/lots of other loans to a very diverse group who then uses that money to buy/build/develop lots of diverse items, just because someone down the line gets money that in theory once belonged to me does not mean I funded him.

If you give me money for some service/product/whatever, that money becomes mine. You have divorced yourself from it. From that moment on whatever I do with that money has nothing to do with you and you are in no way involved with where that money goes. You can't come to my house a year later and take my coffee maker or tell me what kind of coffee to make in it because some of the money you gave me may have eventually became the money that bought that coffee maker.

You act like we are stupid for not agreeing with your logic which IS making this debate go beyond a healthy discussion.

[mattbooty]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

How is money paid for NCAA 11 paying for the development of the NCAA 12 web features NOT a direct correlation? You basically said it yourself that it's a direct correlation, cmon man.

YOU ARE BUYING THE DEVELOPMENT TIME. What do you think happens with that? The companies just eat the costs of development as a loss? No. They price the burger at a price that they can get consumers and cover all of their costs (ALL OF THEIR COSTS) and still make profit. That's the whole point of budgeting, to set costs and create a profit from the end unit.

First of all, to make sure my quote is not taken out of context by someone reading this and not my original post, when I said "Yes they absolutely paid for the development of the web-enabled features, " I was referring to EA, not people who bought the game.

And no it is not a direct correlation because EA has set the budget for NCAA 12 before you even spent that $60. EA knows that the NCAA games are an established franchise... they know that NCAA football (the league, not the games) are a popular franchise... they knew before NCAA 11 dropped approximately how much sales they will see. Those actual numbers will do very little to change their budgeted amount until they see a large drop off in sales because they know market conditions affect the sales of this game more than the actual added features do. A majority of their audience won't even know what the new features are until they pick up the box in the checkout line.

YES EA needs to make a profit, and they cannot spend more MAKING the game than they get SELLING the game, but they were budgeting $XXX on NCAA 12 whether you personally bought the game or not, no one at EA saw you bought it and added another 60 bones to the development budget.

EA prices their game at $60 because that is the current market falue for xbox360 games, they in no way set that price specifically because of how NCAA 11 performed.

[kbmnm247]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

The items being offered are enhancements. It is entirely possible to play a fully featured online dynasty without purchasing either of the items in question.

If I can't advance from the web as is being promoted, it is not fully featured. Fully features means includes ALL features. In order to get to that point, I have to pay.

I'm surprised that there are so many on OS that eat this up.

[kbmnm247]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

Because unlike some folks here I understand what it takes to create these games, football specifically and I'd rather see them stay around and improve then let a overblown sense of entitlement run them into a no profit zone in which they are no longer made or made as an afterthought. I've seen it happen before with other of my favorite games and don't want to see it happen again.

The DLC is a great way to keep the games profitable and give consumers choice. The bottom line here is that most of you who are against it are against it because of some scary distant reality that is highly unlikely to happen as opposed to what it's actually being used for now.

You do know they already charged for AFL uniforms right? How is that not "scary"? It creates a precedent that they can charge extra for some uniforms and that is fine.

They are making plenty of profit, trust me. So much so that they were able to blow over a billion dollars on licenses that have nothing to do with the actual game or more importantly the GAMEPLAY. They will not get into a non profit zone unless they totally screw up because these titles are cash cows every year with marginal improvements year to year.

If you really think these games, specifically, wouldn't be profitable without DLC then I have to chalk it up to EA because you ate it hook line and sinker.

[mattbooty]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

If I can't advance from the web as is being promoted, it is not fully featured. Fully features means includes ALL features. In order to get to that point, I have to pay.

I'm surprised that there are so many on OS that eat this up.

If they are advertising that this can be done without also stipulating that there may be additional costs to do it, then yes that is wrong (and by advertising I don't mean some guy on IGN wrote an article saying you could do it).

I personally haven't seen that but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[kbmnm247]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

Hehe, this is where you and I really don't see eye to eye. Nowhere on the NCAA 12 box (well... I assume so anyways, I haven't seen the box yet, EA could really screw me over on this one) does it say you are getting these web-enabled features as part of the box product, so they ARE getting the game they paid for. If these hypothetical people think they are getting them with their $60 it is THEY that are mistaken, and that's not EA's fault.

You can disagree with their decision to charge for these features but they aren't tricking anyone into buying one thing and getting another.

The fact remains they are offering a new feature, and promoting it, and making you pay extra for it. At what point does that stop? Will we have to pay for new stat overlays? New cameras? What becomes an extra feature and what becomes an extra? The line is blurred at this point and EA will no doubt continue to walk that thin line, obviously.

Anyway,
http://www.ea.com/ncaa-football/blog/web-improvements it's in there and yes it says you'll have to pay for the advance feature because their earlier release on pasta padre's site (he's an EA guy nowadays) was promoting it and didn't mention having to pay. Most likely pasta didn't think you would have to pay so he posted that story and didn't think twice.

[mattbooty]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

You do know they already charged for AFL uniforms right? How is that not "scary"? It creates a precedent that they can charge extra for some uniforms and that is fine.

They are making plenty of profit, trust me. So much so that they were able to blow over a billion dollars on licenses that have nothing to do with the actual game or more importantly the GAMEPLAY. They will not get into a non profit zone unless they totally screw up because these titles are cash cows every year with marginal improvements year to year.

If you really think these games, specifically, wouldn't be profitable without DLC then I have to chalk it up to EA because you ate it hook line and sinker.

Many, many games do require DLC to stay profitable, although I'm not convinced one way or another that the EA sports titles do (maybe they do maybe they don't, I don't have the proper info to say one way or another), as they are wildly popular games.

But it seems to me they are using a DLC price-tag to justify adding some features that the hardcore set are asking for without actually taking away from standard development. Clearly I have nothing to back this up, its just speculation and I'm not posting this as fact, but there is nothing that says they had to create AFL uniforms for Madden or these new web features for online dynasties, and its likely (especially with the previously mentioned ongoing costs with web content) that if they didn't have the idea to charge for them they just wouldn't have done them. These are features that really aren't selling any extra copies.

[kbmnm247]

Re: New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

Absolutely, if sales figures drop enough they'll stop making NCAA, absolutely, but you did not pay for NCAA 12. If I buy a 2011 Toyota Camry, I did not pay for the 2012 model also, regardless of where that money went...

Yes, I'm not stupid, I understand that money that is mine, when given to someone else, will then go on to do many wonderful things in the world, that does not mean I-ME-MYSELF paid for them. I pay interest on a mortgage every month, the bank takes my interest money and used that money to fund loans to hundreds/thousands/lots of other loans to a very diverse group who then uses that money to buy/build/develop lots of diverse items, just because someone down the line gets money that in theory once belonged to me does not mean I funded him.

If you give me money for some service/product/whatever, that money becomes mine. You have divorced yourself from it. From that moment on whatever I do with that money has nothing to do with you and you are in no way involved with where that money goes. You can't come to my house a year later and take my coffee maker or tell me what kind of coffee to make in it because some of the money you gave me may have eventually became the money that bought that coffee maker.

You act like we are stupid for not agreeing with your logic which IS making this debate go beyond a healthy discussion.

If you buy a 2011 Toyota you ARE paying for the production of the 2012 models. I'm not saying I paid for NCAA 12, I'm saying I, and you, and others who purchased NCAA 11 PAID for the production of NCAA 12, it's not debatable, it's strictly fact. So, if part of that production is this online feature, then yes, WE already paid for it. Now they just want extra profit from it because they apparently can get it.

You are right though, no it does not entitle you to the 2012 model. But I never said I was entitled to a free NCAA 12, that's why I would pay $60. Anyway comparing cars to video games is not the same because they are totally different.