Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

[Yukon46]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Wow this thread has really turned into a mumble jumbled mix of mess.

So many points and counter points, from one thing to the next, all because a Senior Producer apparently got himself a better gig ! Good For you Phil !

And one key topic always brought up, is how much better it all was in Last Gen .....and when I hear that, all I think is....

How in the world did they do that back then, without all of the "advice" and input everyone thinks they need to give nowadays !?!

And with the above bold comment, I can almost take that to seem like we the users have hurt the Game, more than we helped it !
If we were so happy with the game back then (without our input), and now when we seem to think we have the most input, we hate the end product.

It will always be a game...no matter what arguments you try to make for or against it, what it is or what it should be.......it is always a video game.

[bkrich83]

Re: Phil Frazier the Latest to Leave EA Sports Tiburon Studio

Am I the only one who gets annoyed when people, who have programming experience, turn up their noses at people who don't ? It's as if you think people need experience in software development to figure out that if a game ran better and did more things, on a inferior platform, then something is wrong with the engine, or people developing a game on that engine.

It's funny how people only reveal their programming experience when they want to tell another person that they don't no what they're talking about. Rarely do these people use their programming, software development, or whatever, to provide insight as to why Madden is years behind where it should be.

You missed the point. But that is not surprising. Nor is it that you got defensive. Your intentions have always but quite clear.

[Only1LT]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Constructive criticism is fine with me, but attacking devs and bitching and complaining is taking it to far. Especially when no one is forcing you to buy the game.

Agreed, but I think there is far, far less of the attacking posts than most people perceive. And if those that more on the pro side of Madden are honest with themselves, and look at things objectively, they'd probably see that they often lump all criticism into the personal attacking, agenda post pot.

[Scottdau]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Well I would say a lot of people that got to play it at E3 had a great time playing it and this this was an alpha version. I am going to go out on a limb and say when I play Madden 12 this year I will have more WOW moments that WTF moments. And to be honest that is all I really care about in a video game.

[Scottdau]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Agreed, but I think there is far, far less of the attacking posts than most people perceive. And if those that more on the pro side of Madden are honest with themselves, and look at things objectively, they'd probably see that they often lump all criticism into the personal attacking, agenda post pot.

Look at it like this. When we see people come in here with agendas and then someone comes in here with constructive criticism. Those two things will look a lot like the same thing, especially when that is all we see. In a way those people wrecked it for you guys.

[bkrich83]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Agreed, but I think there is far, far less of the attacking posts than most people perceive. And if those that more on the pro side of Madden are honest with themselves, and look at things objectively, they'd probably see that they often lump all criticism into the personal attacking, agenda post pot.

I disagree. I am not pro Madden or the opposite. But too many people use the "I only want to improve the game" shield when it's quite obvious what their motives are.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Agreed, but I think there is far, far less of the attacking posts than most people perceive. And if those that more on the pro side of Madden are honest with themselves, and look at things objectively, they'd probably see that they often lump all criticism into the personal attacking, agenda post pot.

This agenda nonsense needs to stop. No one has an AGENDA. That is ridiculous. We are not 12. Is someone trying to organize a protest outside of Tiburon or something? Give me a break. The posts are made because people want the game to be good. If anything, I see more "agenda" coming from the guys who blindly defend the game. Blindly defending or blindly criticizing is all the same in my book. How about being a realist and calling it like you see it? I'll admit, I'm a harsh critic of madden and the dev team. I am also someone who is the first to give them major kudos when they get something right. I want Madden to be the greatest football game ever made. If that's an agenda, then I guess I have one. This is a discussion board, it generates good discussion and gives people a broad perspective on things.

One thing I do agree on is personal attacks. Those are unacceptable. These guys have lives and are people doing their job. It's fine to say they do not do their job all that well if that's how you feel, but name calling and other slurs is something I think we can all do without.

[Only1LT]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Well I would say a lot of people that got to play it at E3 had a great time playing it and this this was an alpha version. I am going to go out on a limb and say when I play Madden 12 this year I will have more WOW moments that WTF moments. And to be honest that is all I really care about in a video game.

I hear you and I hope you enjoy the game.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but just because I talk about issues with the game, doesn't mean I'm anti Madden or anti EA. I love the Giants, Knicks, and Mets, but if they do a trade or something that I don't agree with, or if there are moves that I feel they should make to get better, then when I talk to other Giants/Knicks/Mets fans, I will talk about those things, whether in person, or on a forum. I don't do so thinking that Jerry Reese or Walsh or Coughlin, or who ever is going to see my post and do what I suggested. I just enjoy the conversation.

The same goes for Madden.

[Illustrator76]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Man, I am really getting sick of all of these "agenda" accusations. Can people just get off of telling others what their motives are? No one really knows why someone is posting something on here unless they flat out say: "I am posting X, Y and Z because I have an agenda". It really just seems like a lame way to discredit what others are saying because they bested you in the "debate".

This goes for both sides of the discussion.

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

for the guys that are (annually) disappointed with madden....why not update your 2k5 rosters and go about your business?...don't have an xbox?...go buy one...instead of spending $ on madden.

dropping in here every summer and pointing out what everyone who's ever played a football videogame already knows (7 times over ) seems pointless....doesn't it?

I agree with the first part of your post, to a point, but the second point is really invalid. I, like you, was a big 2k5 head. And while Chris Berman and his bad lip sync was cool circa 2004, it's played out. So if I want to play an update NFL football gaming experience, it's Madden or nothing. And that brings up the larger topic of this message board in general. One could really make the argument that it's all a waste of time. My thoughts are this: if all this board is for is to rain undying praise and loyalty on the newest offering of the Madden gods, it might as well not exist. It's just part of the PR machine.

I've read countless posts of legimate ideas that could improve Madden into being a game that will make 2k a moot point, forever. Most of them are gameplay related, an area where Madden ends up falling way short of even the modern sports-gaming comp, let alone the ancient 2k football games. I've had my "Captain Obvious" moments, but have personally done my best to always offer up ideas that other games have used to become sports gaming leaders. Anyone who's known me for a minute knows I get my kicks off Fifa. Guess what? It's the best selling sports game in the world now. So my using it for examples of what makes a winning game are pretty valid, IMO. I can't ever say any of them where my ideas. But I felt it helpful to share them with the developers of one of my all-time favorite games in Madden.

In closing, I'd just like to say that it's the malcontents and concerned citizens of the gaming world who drive change. Guys like BeZo and LBzRule got the invite by being concerned gamers, not cheerleaders. AJ was a person who said this game needs fixed, he was not a gushing fan. His ideas got him a job. So while you have an opinion that people should "give it a rest, already," it's the ones who speak out, who offer ideas and care enough to spend their own money and time on websites dedicated to Madden and other games who get things changed. I personally have never cared for "trolls," but really respect the guys who use this board as a voice. It might seem old year after year, but the issues still remain, year after year.... And if we ran out of things to opine about, this board would cease to have any useful reason for being.... "Yay, Madden, Madden is king, I love Madden...." gets real old, real fast, doesn't it? Peace....

[roadman]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Agreed, but I think there is far, far less of the attacking posts than most people perceive. And if those that more on the pro side of Madden are honest with themselves, and look at things objectively, they'd probably see that they often lump all criticism into the personal attacking, agenda post pot.

Nah, LT I need to disagree with you personally on this one. I don't see constructive posting as a personal attack/agenda post.

[Only1LT]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

I disagree. I am not pro Madden or the opposite. But too many people use the "I only want to improve the game" shield when it's quite obvious what their motives are.

You may or may not be right, but I think that it is a risky proposition to think that you can tell someone's "obvious" intent over an internet post all the time. Especially when we don't know most of the people on here personally.

Just saying.

[Scottdau]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

At the end of the day no one is forcing you to buy the game. You want to complain about the game fine, but I will say this. If you were force to buy the game every year then I would you have the right to bitch. If you are force to buy it then yes you should have it the way you want it, but I am pretty sure you are not force to buy it. So in my opinion it is crying over spilled milk. There are some on this site that have constrcuctive critism and some that have agendas. Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference. Also if something seems easy for Madden to do I am pretty sure they would. Any way I am done. I just want to say thanks to Phil and Ian for their hard work on this game.

[bkrich83]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

You may or may not be right, but I think that it is a risky proposition to think that you can tell someone's "obvious" intent over an internet post all the time. Especially when we don't know most of the people on here personally.

Just saying.

Over a period of time it becomes quite obvious. I can see why you want to give them a pass.

It's just become so hard to filter out the white noise.

[Only1LT]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Nah, LT I need to disagree with you personally on this one. I don't see constructive posting as a personal attack/agenda post.

That's you personally, but I think some do. Just my experience.

I've been lumped into the attacking camp many times, and I have never said a single thing about Ian and Co personally, ever.