Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

[bkrich83]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

No question. I definitely see you are, lol.

Lol. Indeed.

[nabootheenigma]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Click the thumb.

I used to see it now I can't see any thumbs





EDIT: I CAN SEE THEM NOW LOL OS 2.0 DEFAULT CAN SEE THEM OS SCI FI U CANT

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

You can't compare EA's interactions with 2k's. I'm sorry, you just can't. It's not a knock on either company but they obviously have different levels of impact throughout their development teams.

With the "community involvement" being all but squashed for the NBA series and more and more mystery surrounding what EA is doing with Madden, you're telling me there is no cause for concern at all? None at all?

I would say you're either being a bit naive or optimistic without reason. No disrespect meant or intended.

I didn't like the direction Madden went in last year. Some nice news this year but I'm still not sold. I just don't see the same interaction among the Madden team NOW as I expected to with Ian as a face. This was always a concern when I would see new and old user alike making stupid comments toward the developers that frequented here... but their departures can be seen as nothing but a blow to our involvement. Maybe I'm being selfish in that aspect but I'm not trying to be.

And that doesn't mean the game can't get better - I'm just saying I foresee us going backwards to the way it was during Madden 07/8/9 where people would be frustrated on the boards with no developer outlet for intelligent discussion. I think people took it for granted the last few years and unless someone steps in that is OBVIOUSLY in a position to impact the game, I just see a very silly forum experience by those that want their voice heard in the worst way possible.

What didn't you like about last year's direction, Pared? I'm loving that bit by bit we seem to be headed toward Madden becoming a better game. I'll say that I don't like the pace of things in regards to improvements and it would be nice for a single focus year to year, as opposed to "well that didn't fly, back to the drawing board..." But, as I stated beofre, we still have AJ, and it seems that Cam is big on community feedback. It might not be as cozy as beofre with the higher-ranking folk, (sorry AJ, you aren't chopped liver, just not a department head ) but we still have access.

I did bring up Fifa, as well as 2k Sports. The EA Canada team doesn't interact at the grass roots level that Ian and Phil did, but they do hear us through feedback. I just feel that "different is not deficient." It's just a different way than before, a bit more traditional. I'm gonna miss the virtual rubbing elbows with "greatness," sure. But I'm not convinced, that in the long run, that it won't actually end up better. We're on the map now, just because our direct line to the inner sanctum of Tiburon brass is severed, it doesn't mean we won't get heard. We just might not get the one on one feedback that we're accustomed to. Once again, after all of the problems that came with, maybe not such a bad thing.....

P.S. Remember that back in the day this was my headache.... I was Ian's personal cheerleader and stooge...As was Countryboy. Been there, done that...... I don't miss the green name at all!

[Scottdau]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

I used to see it now I can't see any thumbs





EDIT: I CAN SEE THEM NOW LOL OS 2.0 DEFAULT CAN SEE THEM OS SCI FI U CANT

Hm that is weird I can see it. But I am on my iPhone. So maybe it is difference.

[Rocky]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

I figure I'd throw my two cents in the situation as well.

Let me preface by saying that I really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Tiburon and EA. I can only speak from the perspective of somebody who has been playing football video games for almost 20 years.

To me, quite honestly, Phil and Ian's tenure will be characterized by great and appreciated interaction with the community, finally an attention to detail to the cosmetics and graphics you come to expect with a Madden game, and some good gameplay ideas and mechanics (juke system, Pro Tak). But ultimately those positive things will take a backseat to what I believe was a waste of development time on frivolous features that the majority of gamers don't use. Madden IQ, Ultimate Team, Gameflow, Strategy Pad, etc. were features touted by the Dev team that added little to the game. When you add the failed features up, that's alot of wasted development time over a 3 year span.

Additionally, the team never could get things like basic human movement, physics, and weight right. Madden this gen has never moved, looked, or felt right or real. Ironically, this is one area where last gen Madden was ahead of it's time. Even today, Madden 03-07 for the PS2 looks and moves smoother and more realistically than Madden 12 for the PS3. And it still doesn't account for the force when a 300 lb man goes up against a 170 lb man (there isn't really even an animation for it).

In a generation where games like The Show, NBA2K, FIFA do this so well...even non-sports games, realistic human movement is the norm, I think Madden is downright archaic sometimes. The Madden development team really never understood this fundamental frustration gamers had with Madden.

Also, I was repeatedly frustrated by the 'wait until next year' approach this development team took. Why did Ultimate Team, Gameflow, and Madden IQ take precedence over realistic commentary, sliders (for a long time), realistic camera angles, franchise mode features, in game saves, halftime shows, a realistic playcalling system, etc.?

I know alot of these limitations are caused by the suits at EA and the previous developmental teams mishaps, but I think this developmental team while a little more focused on what gamers wanted aesthetically, tried to still put lipstick on the pig from a fundamental gaming standpoint.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

I figure I'd throw my two cents in the situation as well.

Let me preface by saying that I really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Tiburon and EA. I can only speak from the perspective of somebody who has been playing football video games for almost 20 years.

To me, quite honestly, Phil and Ian's tenure will be characterized by great and appreciated interaction with the community, finally an attention to detail to the cosmetics and graphics you come to expect with a Madden game, and some good gameplay ideas and mechanics (juke system, Pro Tak). But ultimately those positive things will take a backseat to what I believe was a waste of development time on frivolous features that the majority of gamers don't use. Madden IQ, Ultimate Team, Gameflow, Strategy Pad, etc. were features touted by the Dev team that added little to the game. When you add the failed features up, that's alot of wasted development time over a 3 year span.

Additionally, the team never could get things like basic human movement, physics, and weight right. Madden this gen has never moved, looked, or felt right or real. Ironically, this is one area where last gen Madden was ahead of it's time. Even today, Madden 03-07 for the PS2 looks and moves smoother and more realistically than Madden 12 for the PS3. And it still doesn't account for the force when a 300 lb man goes up against a 170 lb man (there isn't really even an animation for it).

In a generation where games like The Show, NBA2K, FIFA do this so well...even non-sports games, realistic human movement is the norm, I think Madden is downright archaic sometimes. The Madden development team really never understood this fundamental frustration gamers had with Madden.

Also, I was repeatedly frustrated by the 'wait until next year' approach this development team took. Why did Ultimate Team, Gameflow, and Madden IQ take precedence over realistic commentary, sliders (for a long time), realistic camera angles, franchise mode features, in game saves, halftime shows, a realistic playcalling system, etc.?

I know alot of these limitations are caused by the suits at EA and the previous developmental teams mishaps, but I think this developmental team while a little more focused on what gamers wanted aesthetically, tried to still put lipstick on the pig from a fundamental gaming standpoint.

Good post.

[PVarck31]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

I figure I'd throw my two cents in the situation as well.

Let me preface by saying that I really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Tiburon and EA. I can only speak from the perspective of somebody who has been playing football video games for almost 20 years.

To me, quite honestly, Phil and Ian's tenure will be characterized by great and appreciated interaction with the community, finally an attention to detail to the cosmetics and graphics you come to expect with a Madden game, and some good gameplay ideas and mechanics (juke system, Pro Tak). But ultimately those positive things will take a backseat to what I believe was a waste of development time on frivolous features that the majority of gamers don't use. Madden IQ, Ultimate Team, Gameflow, Strategy Pad, etc. were features touted by the Dev team that added little to the game. When you add the failed features up, that's alot of wasted development time over a 3 year span.

Additionally, the team never could get things like basic human movement, physics, and weight right. Madden this gen has never moved, looked, or felt right or real. Ironically, this is one area where last gen Madden was ahead of it's time. Even today, Madden 03-07 for the PS2 looks and moves smoother and more realistically than Madden 12 for the PS3. And it still doesn't account for the force when a 300 lb man goes up against a 170 lb man (there isn't really even an animation for it).

In a generation where games like The Show, NBA2K, FIFA do this so well...even non-sports games, realistic human movement is the norm, I think Madden is downright archaic sometimes. The Madden development team really never understood this fundamental frustration gamers had with Madden.

Also, I was repeatedly frustrated by the 'wait until next year' approach this development team took. Why did Ultimate Team, Gameflow, and Madden IQ take precedence over realistic commentary, sliders (for a long time), realistic camera angles, franchise mode features, in game saves, halftime shows, a realistic playcalling system, etc.?

I know alot of these limitations are caused by the suits at EA and the previous developmental teams mishaps, but I think this developmental team while a little more focused on what gamers wanted aesthetically, tried to still put lipstick on the pig from a fundamental gaming standpoint.

This is constructive criticism.

[shyvoodoo]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

I figure I'd throw my two cents in the situation as well.

Let me preface by saying that I really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Tiburon and EA. I can only speak from the perspective of somebody who has been playing football video games for almost 20 years.

To me, quite honestly, Phil and Ian's tenure will be characterized by great and appreciated interaction with the community, finally an attention to detail to the cosmetics and graphics you come to expect with a Madden game, and some good gameplay ideas and mechanics (juke system, Pro Tak). But ultimately those positive things will take a backseat to what I believe was a waste of development time on frivolous features that the majority of gamers don't use. Madden IQ, Ultimate Team, Gameflow, Strategy Pad, etc. were features touted by the Dev team that added little to the game. When you add the failed features up, that's alot of wasted development time over a 3 year span.

Additionally, the team never could get things like basic human movement, physics, and weight right. Madden this gen has never moved, looked, or felt right or real. Ironically, this is one area where last gen Madden was ahead of it's time. Even today, Madden 03-07 for the PS2 looks and moves smoother and more realistically than Madden 12 for the PS3. And it still doesn't account for the force when a 300 lb man goes up against a 170 lb man (there isn't really even an animation for it).

In a generation where games like The Show, NBA2K, FIFA do this so well...even non-sports games, realistic human movement is the norm, I think Madden is downright archaic sometimes. The Madden development team really never understood this fundamental frustration gamers had with Madden.

Also, I was repeatedly frustrated by the 'wait until next year' approach this development team took. Why did Ultimate Team, Gameflow, and Madden IQ take precedence over realistic commentary, sliders (for a long time), realistic camera angles, franchise mode features, in game saves, halftime shows, a realistic playcalling system, etc.?

I know alot of these limitations are caused by the suits at EA and the previous developmental teams mishaps, but I think this developmental team while a little more focused on what gamers wanted aesthetically, tried to still put lipstick on the pig from a fundamental gaming standpoint.

Fantastic Post Rock. I agree with the same things in this post and I just thought Ian and company wanted to make the best football "party game" and catered too much to the casuals and the Online community.

On top of that though, this one paragraph epitomizes what made me so upset with this team:

Also, I was repeatedly frustrated by the 'wait until next year' approach this development team took. Why did Ultimate Team, Gameflow, and Madden IQ take precedence over realistic commentary, sliders (for a long time), realistic camera angles, franchise mode features, in game saves, halftime shows, a realistic playcalling system, etc.

I could not for the life of me understand that with these supercomputers we have, we still have only 4 camera angles to choose from. Racing games got more camera angles than this, FPS games got more camera angles. We should have had TV style presentation years ago, we had it last gen but not now??

Pre, Post and Halftime shows are basically STILL not in the game.. That "game" that some says is the greatest football game ever, had all this and it just makes me upset to go to you tube and look at that video of this games halftime show and it makes you want to scream at these guys WAKE UP!!. That "game" even had a weekly wrap up show!! A weekly wrap up... Only ONE OTHER GAME has gone the length to add this and these games were made by the same company...

The "wait until next year" thing was in my opinion saying to gamers "What we want to do with this game matters MORE to us than what you want to have in this game". After '09, somebody on that team should have booted up a copy of Madden ps2, COMPLETELY dissected those games and said "OK lets start with these features FIRST".
On top of that, NBA 2k11 pretty much blew that excuse out the water and the "suits" could not lean on that excuse anymore when it comes to their philosophy of "Well if we re add features a little bit at a time then people will think its a "new" game". Not thinking that most gamers KEEP their old games so shame on them.

Honestly, I love the new direction, I haven't been excited about playing a Madden like this in years and the first time in almost 10 that I plan on buying both football games. Heck, I havent bought a FIFA game since the genesis days and I'm planning on buying FIFA 12 this year! So I like the new direction EA Sports is going. The games should be more geared to the TV style presentation because its much more enjoyable and thats how we all REALISTICALLY enjoy our sports. Theres no way you can experience sports games "on the field" through a x" TV screen. Some gamers are gonna cry about this but I say if you want that then have your brother or girlfriend punch and kick you when the hits occur in the game..a vibrating controller ain't the same.. sorry..

Ian will always be a cool dude just because of the pains he went through to add the Broadcast cam for me and the boys of the BBC. I will remember him for that.

Thats my 2c's

ben
voodoo

[Pared]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

What didn't you like about last year's direction, Pared? I'm loving that bit by bit we seem to be headed toward Madden becoming a better game. I'll say that I don't like the pace of things in regards to improvements and it would be nice for a single focus year to year, as opposed to "well that didn't fly, back to the drawing board..." But, as I stated beofre, we still have AJ, and it seems that Cam is big on community feedback. It might not be as cozy as beofre with the higher-ranking folk, (sorry AJ, you aren't chopped liver, just not a department head ) but we still have access.

I did bring up Fifa, as well as 2k Sports. The EA Canada team doesn't interact at the grass roots level that Ian and Phil did, but they do hear us through feedback. I just feel that "different is not deficient." It's just a different way than before, a bit more traditional. I'm gonna miss the virtual rubbing elbows with "greatness," sure. But I'm not convinced, that in the long run, that it won't actually end up better. We're on the map now, just because our direct line to the inner sanctum of Tiburon brass is severed, it doesn't mean we won't get heard. We just might not get the one on one feedback that we're accustomed to. Once again, after all of the problems that came with, maybe not such a bad thing.....

The lack of focus on areas they improved upon in '10 from '09 - gameplay, presentation and polish.

I will NEVER consider community interaction a bad thing. The community may not know how to express their thoughts but through discussion and conversation will we see some great ideas flourish.

As long as the discourse is constructive we, the gamer, always wins. And believe it or not, the developers win in turn as well.

[bucky60]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

The lack of focus on areas they improved upon in '10 from '09 - gameplay, presentation and polish.

Please add offline and online franchise.

I will NEVER consider community interaction a bad thing. The community may not know how to express their thoughts but through discussion and conversation will we see some great ideas flourish.

If the developer is listening, then community interaction is an absolutely wonderful thing. I've seen games sites that have modders (where game developers encourage modding, even provide tools to the community for modding) who come up with such wonderful mods that the game developers actually include user community created mods in an official DLC. You can't beat that.

As long as the discourse is constructive we, the gamer, always wins. And believe it or not, the developers win in turn as well.

Absolutely true. And the community should encourage and not discourage the constructive comments.

I think part of the problem is there are many fans of EA/Madden that won't allow any criticism. I've never owned NFL2K (they never made it for PC and I didn't have a console until last year, got one just for Red Dead Redemption), and don't have a great love for NFL2K (cause I've never had it). But I really wish it was still around just to have a choice. I'm also not a blind EA/Madden lover. I just want an NFL Football Video Game that has the quality it should have in this day and age. I really don't care who that developer is, it could be EA, it could be somebody else. I'd like to encourage the constructive criticism just so we don't have to settle for sub par, or even worse, nothing at all. Heck, I even bought Backbreaker, just to encourage those guys to continue. So far, not so good.

[PaperBoyx703]

Best wishes to da phily cheeze

[blklightning]

Re: Phil Frazier the Latest to Leave EA Sports Tiburon Studio

not too worried about either loss since the series has been sub par when they were around. gives that company a chance to grab some talent that isn't falling asleep at the wheel from making the same game every year. great news, in my opinion.

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Madden 12's foot planting, from what we've seen at E3, is still inferior. There are far too many instances where a player can change direction without even the slightest foot-planting animation.

Madden does have sideline catching; they took a while to get it, and lied about having it in Madden 10 when we had to wait until Madden 11 to get it, but they do have it.

Madden has double team blocking in the running game; double team blocks don't occur with the oline is pass-blocking. If you've seen any E3 videos with double team pass blocking, please post a link. I'd like to see it.

The jury is still out on route running in Madden 12. First, we need to see if the routes are connected to the drop of the QB; second, we also need to see if throwing the ball before the wr makes his break on a dig, out-route, post, or corner route turns the route into a go route.

The pass rushing animations, and the AI from what I've seen, is still better in the other game. The DE's get up the field and,many times, don't engage the Tackle until they're at the same depth as the QB. Many times they're at the same depth when the QB finishes his drop. I haven't seen this at E3. Maybe it's the difficulty setting, but I haven't seen it.

You do realize the E3 version was alpha build right? Hell the version we played at early May community event was farther in the dev cyclelol.

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

Fantastic Post Rock. I agree with the same things in this post and I just thought Ian and company wanted to make the best football "party game" and catered too much to the casuals and the Online community.

On top of that though, this one paragraph epitomizes what made me so upset with this team:



I could not for the life of me understand that with these supercomputers we have, we still have only 4 camera angles to choose from. Racing games got more camera angles than this, FPS games got more camera angles. We should have had TV style presentation years ago, we had it last gen but not now??

Pre, Post and Halftime shows are basically STILL not in the game.. That "game" that some says is the greatest football game ever, had all this and it just makes me upset to go to you tube and look at that video of this games halftime show and it makes you want to scream at these guys WAKE UP!!. That "game" even had a weekly wrap up show!! A weekly wrap up... Only ONE OTHER GAME has gone the length to add this and these games were made by the same company...

The "wait until next year" thing was in my opinion saying to gamers "What we want to do with this game matters MORE to us than what you want to have in this game". After '09, somebody on that team should have booted up a copy of Madden ps2, COMPLETELY dissected those games and said "OK lets start with these features FIRST".
On top of that, NBA 2k11 pretty much blew that excuse out the water and the "suits" could not lean on that excuse anymore when it comes to their philosophy of "Well if we re add features a little bit at a time then people will think its a "new" game". Not thinking that most gamers KEEP their old games so shame on them.

Honestly, I love the new direction, I haven't been excited about playing a Madden like this in years and the first time in almost 10 that I plan on buying both football games. Heck, I havent bought a FIFA game since the genesis days and I'm planning on buying FIFA 12 this year! So I like the new direction EA Sports is going. The games should be more geared to the TV style presentation because its much more enjoyable and thats how we all REALISTICALLY enjoy our sports. Theres no way you can experience sports games "on the field" through a x" TV screen. Some gamers are gonna cry about this but I say if you want that then have your brother or girlfriend punch and kick you when the hits occur in the game..a vibrating controller ain't the same.. sorry..

Ian will always be a cool dude just because of the pains he went through to add the Broadcast cam for me and the boys of the BBC. I will remember him for that.

Thats my 2c's

ben
voodoo

Systems are what holds the technology back... Not enough memory...RAM, whatever.

[adembroski]

Madden 09 was not Ian/Phil. That game was nearing beta when they took over. Way too late to make major changes.