NCAA Football 12 Demo Details Revealed, EA Demo Stream Available

[kt-od]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Demo Details Revealed, EA Demo Stream Available

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[bpac55]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Demo Details Revealed, EA Demo Stream Available

Not to sound like a loser but what if I never use xbox live and don't have any friends to share with?

[TheTodd84]

EA should've gone after the Euphoria engine from Backbreaker. If they had that, the game would be incredible. Gameplay-wise, it would open up a million doors for this franchise.

This... couldn't have said it better myself.

[volwalker]

After reading all of the comments in the post I have conlcuded that the biggest concerns that the hardcore gamers have for NCAA 12 (including myself) are 1) CPU shotgun running and 2) USER play-action effectiveness. After watching every single gameplay footage the internet has to offer (Bama vs. Auburn, Cal vs. USC, South Carolina vs. Clemson, the demo itself, etc.) I would like to share my thoughts regarding the two concerns above.

1) After watching the UStrem event, the demo is the only real footage we can go by that relates to CPU shotgun running. I admit that the CPU struggled to establish the shotgun running game. Is there a chance that this concern will carry over into the retail version of the game? Sure, but there are a couple of things that can hopefully fix this problem: tuners and sliders. There is a small chance (albiet a chance) that tuners can fix this problem. If not then I believe that I can fix this myself with sliders. Whenever I will play against a CPU spread option team (I am an offline dynasty guy) I will simply adjust the HB awareness or something to that effect. Once the game is over I will set the slider back to my default setting.

I think the simple reason why the CPU has a hard time with running from the shotgun is that the HB simply can not find the correct hole to run through, especially cut-back holes. Most if not all shotgun run plays call for the HB to run horizontally then make a cut upfield. The "cut" part is what the CPU is struggling with. That is why under center running works so well in last years game: most under center runs call for the HB to run vertically upfield and thus eliminates the need to rely on cut-back runs. Those same runs lead the HB to run right into a hole made by the offensive line. I feel that one, if not both things can help fix this problem.

2) After watching all of the gameplay videos that are mentioned above, I am thoroughly impressed with the improvement of the USER play-action pass. In NCAA 11 I ran mostly a pro style offense which call for alot of paly-action. 9 times out of 10 play-action would not work. After counting the number of play-action plays in the NCAA 12 videos, I have calculated that the play-action worked a little over 50% of the time. This is an amzaing improvement compared to what we are used to. If you are not convienced that play-action has improved and is therefore more realistic, then there is no way to please you as a gamer.

I hope that my little speech can help ease the minds of the hardcore gamers who are worried that these two facets of gameplay will not ruin their overall experience with NCAA 12. I know they will not ruin mine.

[MrRudy]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Demo Details Revealed, EA Demo Stream Available

Volwalker, I love your post. We need a little more optimism than what is floating around on this board about this game. I've done my share of complaining in terms of what has been done with Teambuilder, but I'm still geared up for the game. I love the lack of suction and the new look of tackles.

[maddenforeva]

just because they "increased the size of the football team" for NCAA does not necessarily mean they are focusing on gameplay. They are not mutually exclusive. We, and you, have no idea what the extra people are being used for in this instance. It is not a "tangible fact" that it is being used on gameplay just because EA says they are working on it. How long has EA said one thing and delivered another? When are we going to stop believing them? They are out to market their product, OF COURSE they are going to say they are "focused on gameplay" to please the masses and get people to shut up. Until the gameplay ACTUALLY changes and there are "tangible" changes, then really, nothing has changed. So it's not necessarily a fact because we can only speculate what their intentions are.

Until a spread running team like oregon picks me apart for 300+ yards rushing and 500+ yards of total offense and not just throwing the ball for slants or seams that can't be stopped and the CPU actually puts together a dynamic gameplan to pick me apart, just like, I dunno, oregon does IN REAL LIFE, then they will have showed me they have worked on gameplay. Until then, I will believe it when I see it.

Hopefully increasing the "football team" at EA will mean a football version of the "impact engine" FIFA is using. Until they use that, everything will be scripted and movement will be way off... as well as logic and how the game plays. Real-time physics would fix a lot of the gameplay issues w the CPU, like defensive linemen reacting WAY TOO QUICKLY to the zone read.

If you want them to play like they do in real life, you are going to be upset that your defense isnt working correctly. They play the way they do, because that is where the fault lies in your defense. In real life, Oregan is faster and better than its opponents. In video games, all teams are equal except for ratings. I assume if you are playing with a bad team, they will scoer alot on youl.. If you play with a good teaM tho, you cant expect 500 yards of offense. we knot too much about the game to allow 500 yards of their BS option and shotgun plays. we know all the tricks. its the shotgun and play action that needs to be fixed, not the plays they run IRL

[TheTodd84]

If you want them to play like they do in real life, you are going to be upset that your defense isnt working correctly. They play the way they do, because that is where the fault lies in your defense. In real life, Oregan is faster and better than its opponents. In video games, all teams are equal except for ratings. I assume if you are playing with a bad team, they will scoer alot on youl.. If you play with a good teaM tho, you cant expect 500 yards of offense. we knot too much about the game to allow 500 yards of their BS option and shotgun plays. we know all the tricks. its the shotgun and play action that needs to be fixed, not the plays they run IRL

you are right and you clarified my point. My point is that with real-time physics, you will fix the play-action glitches and the shotgun running because momentum and weight will actually be taken into consideration and you won't have defensive ends in the backfield as often using hyper speed to rush up the field.

It's so annoying when playing CPU oregon that LaMichael James has a HUGE hole off the left side that one of two things happens... either a) the AI RB programming is so bad that he misses the hole completely and cuts back when he doesn't need to, or b) some super-human defensive end magically sheds his block to shut the hole in 2 seconds for a minimal gain. Sure, this happens SOMETIMES in real life, but jesus, every running play? Why can't oregon run for 200 yards on me? Programming and a lack of physics and momentum, that's why.

[JaySmooov]

you are right and you clarified my point. My point is that with real-time physics, you will fix the play-action glitches and the shotgun running because momentum and weight will actually be taken into consideration and you won't have defensive ends in the backfield as often using hyper speed to rush up the field.

It's so annoying when playing CPU oregon that LaMichael James has a HUGE hole off the left side that one of two things happens... either a) the AI RB programming is so bad that he misses the hole completely and cuts back when he doesn't need to, or b) some super-human defensive end magically sheds his block to shut the hole in 2 seconds for a minimal gain. Sure, this happens SOMETIMES in real life, but jesus, every running play? Why can't oregon run for 200 yards on me? Programming and a lack of physics and momentum, that's why.

No, no, and no.

1) You say real-time physics will improve PA Glitches (whatever those are) and shotgun running will be fixed. First, lets just nip it in the bud when it comes to real-time physics, Madden and NCAA won't have them in this generation of consoles. Say what you want about Backbreaker, the game was bare-bones when compared to NCAA (and Madden). Look at all the features, animations and graphical aspects of the game in comparison to Backbreaker.

Backbreaker sells the Euphoria engine. NCAA sells college football, and everything about it. You think the memory in-game for NCAA could handle the Euphoria engine, along with every feature, pre-game, game mode, and every other small feature in the game?

I doubt EA will take on the Euphoria engine, mainly because they're a top company and they've built on taking chances and making a name for itself. They'll probably have they're own animation engine for the next-gen consoles, and those aren't due for another 2-3 years.

2) The fact that Oregon and the CPU can't run out of the shotgun could be potentially due to a number of reasons we haven't considered.

Maybe it's one of those glitch-type of things where no matter what, Oregon will never be able to run in NCAA games.

More than likely, it has to do with how running plays out of the shotgun are scripted in-game, more so than AI. In real life, running out of the shotgun is the opposite of running out of traditional formations. Where in a typical I-Form, the RB is supposed to hit a designated hole and bounce out if it's possible, running out of the Gun is more based on patience and hitting the open lane when it's there.

Based off of how EA does their plays, all of the run plays are designed for the RB to run outside. So maybe they need to redo the logic on how the OL blocks for running plays out of the gun.

Or, maybe it IS an AI problem. However, EA would have to be careful in making the AI too smart for it's own good. Remember, people thinking individually and independently, and it would be a nightmare if the RB knew where the best hole was each time. I just think they need to somehow redo or re-tune how teams run out of the Gun, because it's ridiculous when you can't even get creative to get a couple yards w/ Oregon on the ground.

[derrickm10]

for the tuner pack they need to add primary shoe change color mouth pieces eye paint helmets pop off when you get hit and tattoes on players short dreads hang out of helmet in braids hang out of helmet and long hair.mor they need dynasty disciplen cbs abc espnu telivision instead of always espn. change hair color.

[JaySmooov]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Demo Details Revealed, EA Demo Stream Available

for the tuner pack they need to add primary shoe change color mouth pieces eye paint helmets pop off when you get hit and tattoes on players short dreads hang out of helmet in braids hang out of helmet and long hair.mor they need dynasty disciplen cbs abc espnu telivision instead of always espn. change hair color.

You realize nothing you said had anything to do with tuning?

And I'm pretty sure the NCAA won't allow tattoos, especially with the Ohio State scandal coming to light.

They've already said more lengths for dreads will be in next year, and they'll probably look better as well .

Really no reason to add CBS or ABC unless for specific teams or games, like Notre Dame's exclusive television agreement with CBS.

[Pokes404]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Demo Details Revealed, EA Demo Stream Available

No, no, and no.

1) You say real-time physics will improve PA Glitches (whatever those are) and shotgun running will be fixed. First, lets just nip it in the bud when it comes to real-time physics, Madden and NCAA won't have them in this generation of consoles. Say what you want about Backbreaker, the game was bare-bones when compared to NCAA (and Madden). Look at all the features, animations and graphical aspects of the game in comparison to Backbreaker.

Backbreaker sells the Euphoria engine. NCAA sells college football, and everything about it. You think the memory in-game for NCAA could handle the Euphoria engine, along with every feature, pre-game, game mode, and every other small feature in the game?

I doubt EA will take on the Euphoria engine, mainly because they're a top company and they've built on taking chances and making a name for itself. They'll probably have they're own animation engine for the next-gen consoles, and those aren't due for another 2-3 years.

2) The fact that Oregon and the CPU can't run out of the shotgun could be potentially due to a number of reasons we haven't considered.

Maybe it's one of those glitch-type of things where no matter what, Oregon will never be able to run in NCAA games.

More than likely, it has to do with how running plays out of the shotgun are scripted in-game, more so than AI. In real life, running out of the shotgun is the opposite of running out of traditional formations. Where in a typical I-Form, the RB is supposed to hit a designated hole and bounce out if it's possible, running out of the Gun is more based on patience and hitting the open lane when it's there.

Based off of how EA does their plays, all of the run plays are designed for the RB to run outside. So maybe they need to redo the logic on how the OL blocks for running plays out of the gun.

Or, maybe it IS an AI problem. However, EA would have to be careful in making the AI too smart for it's own good. Remember, people thinking individually and independently, and it would be a nightmare if the RB knew where the best hole was each time. I just think they need to somehow redo or re-tune how teams run out of the Gun, because it's ridiculous when you can't even get creative to get a couple yards w/ Oregon on the ground.

To expand on what you're saying, I can tell you what I believe to be the biggest problem with running out of the gun. It's how static the O-line/D-line interactions are. So many shotgun runs are all about getting the defensive line moving toward the sidelines. You get the defense flowing one way and it's the running backs job the determine whether he can beat the defense to the outside or if he needs to use the defenders' momentum against them and cut back into the hole. The problem in the game is that when the offensive and defensive linemen engage, they don't move dynamically. The blocker doesn't drive his man toward the sideline while the defender tries to cover ground and fight off the blocker (except for those rare instances where you'll see TEs driving LBs toward the sidelines while they try to fight them off [why doesn't this happen more often]). For the most part, they plant their feet in the ground and then the blocker either throws the defender to the ground, or the defender tosses the blocker to the side for an easy tackle. Because of this, shotgun runs, which are much more about making reads than just hitting a designated hole, will continue to be ineffective in this game. At least, not without massive slider help. But then that creates a whole new set of problems.

I disagree with you about Backbreaker though. NCAA is the bare-bones game to me because none of the features, presentation elements, and/or game modes they add do me any good if I can't stand playing the game on the field. And while I'd be hard pressed to call Backbreaker anything more than "OK," I find myself getting into it more than NCAA because of the physics and the simulation feel (I hate that analog-stick passing system though). When it comes down to it, I'd rather have a football simulator with college elements than a college simulator with football elements (that explanation doesn't work 100% but I think you get what I'm saying).

[derrickm10]

t i think im the only one who has it i still have the reddem code in you can change primary in secoundary shoe color

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Demo Details Revealed, EA Demo Stream Available

1) You say real-time physics will improve PA Glitches (whatever those are) and shotgun running will be fixed. First, lets just nip it in the bud when it comes to real-time physics, Madden and NCAA won't have them in this generation of consoles. Say what you want about Backbreaker, the game was bare-bones when compared to NCAA (and Madden). Look at all the features, animations and graphical aspects of the game in comparison to Backbreaker.

The game was barebone because it was meant to show off the Euphoria engine (I believe). The fact is, Backbreakers major flaws were concerned with design choices, like giving the game arcade graphics, bad camera angle and analouge passing, but other than that the gameplay was superb.

Backbreaker sells the Euphoria engine. NCAA sells college football, and everything about it. You think the memory in-game for NCAA could handle the Euphoria engine, along with every feature, pre-game, game mode, and every other small feature in the game?

Have you looked at Battlefield 3, that has to handle amazing graphics and what looks to be true top notch battlefield gameplay, and that is being put on the same disk.

I doubt EA will take on the Euphoria engine, mainly because they're a top company and they've built on taking chances and making a name for itself. They'll probably have they're own animation engine for the next-gen consoles, and those aren't due for another 2-3 years.

This is most likely true, and probably won't hurt EA either due to the exclusiveness of the deals they have with the NFL and (did they renew with the NCAA). If not that might actually hurt them.

[JaySmooov]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Demo Details Revealed, EA Demo Stream Available

To expand on what you're saying, I can tell you what I believe to be the biggest problem with running out of the gun. It's how static the O-line/D-line interactions are.

Yeah I was gonna mention that too. I don't understand why blocking is different in Madden vs. NCAA. Madden has zone-blocking schemes, something that wouldn't work in NCAA because the OL in NCAA Football go head-to-head with their designated DL. I think it has more to do with how EA Sports scripts the shotgun running plays, because blocking works fine throughout except for the Gun. But blocking could also be a problem.

I disagree with you about Backbreaker though. NCAA is the bare-bones game to me because none of the features, presentation elements, and/or game modes they add do me any good if I can't stand playing the game on the field.

I don't understand how you think NCAA is bare-bones. By bare-bones I meant, the only thing the Backbreaker series has is gameplay. No commentary, no real teams or players, just mainly the gameplay/Euphoria engine is what customers are sold on. I think that's why their next release is coming on XBL, it wouldn't make sense to produce the game on discs when there isn't heavy interest. I'm not even considering NCAA's gameplay, just how much goes into the games. In this generation of systems, adding the Euphoria engine along with keeping everything in the game, minus the gameplay animations, would take up too much memory. Think of GTA 4, which had Euphoria, and think of everything that goes into that game.

The game was barebone because it was meant to show off the Euphoria engine (I believe). The fact is, Backbreakers major flaws were concerned with design choices, like giving the game arcade graphics, bad camera angle and analouge passing, but other than that the gameplay was superb.

No. Just no. I played Backbreaker, and gameplay is average at best. Mario running is a no-no, and I'm not a fan of being thrown around like a rag-doll EVERY play. Those graphics are there to stay because the Euphoria engine takes up most of the memory, coupled with the fact that they probably don't have much of a budget. And Backbreaker wasn't meant to show off Euphoria; GTA 4 had it as well. It was meant to show (apparently) how realistic gameplay could be. IMO it isn't very realistic.

Have you looked at Battlefield 3, that has to handle amazing graphics and what looks to be true top notch battlefield gameplay, and that is being put on the same disk.

Yes, but consider that the engine was optimized FOR Battlefield 3. Also, consider that the only thing the system/disc is running is the gameplay, and everything that interacts with it. (Basically, like running only the on-the-field parts of Madden/NCAA.) They don't have to worry about things like stat overlays, rosters, things interacting on field randomly, etc. We wouldn't want a situation where a game lags out of the box because too much is in it.

ALSO, remember, that engine was made by EA, which I'm pretty sure EA will make an animation engine for it's sports games in the future.

This is most likely true, and probably won't hurt EA either due to the exclusiveness of the deals they have with the NFL and (did they renew with the NCAA). If not that might actually hurt them.

I don't think it will hurt EA, short term, even if they don't retain exclusivity. No one is prepared to put out a yearly college football game to threaten EA's sales, and I doubt 2K is willing to pay for a license. They still have to worry about EA's return to basketball, which I think will be a success.

[Ronnie brown23]

Re: NCAA Football 12 Demo Details Revealed, EA Demo Stream Available

The game was barebone because it was
Have you looked at Battlefield 3, that has to handle amazing graphics and what looks to be true top notch battlefield gameplay, and that is being put on the same disk.

you do realize that 99% of the Battlefield 3 footage is from PC. which can do far more graphically and still play at a smooth 60 fps at the sametime. this generation of consoles cant do that.