Fact or Fiction: NCAA Football 12 Outlook

[DickDalewood]

Re: Fact or Fiction: NCAA Football 12 Outlook

Great writeup, seriously.

Thanks guys.

[TheTodd84]

"The NCAA team adds in several team-specific rituals and entrances that go above and beyond what we saw in the PS2/Xbox versions to appease fans, and then the NCAA team gets knocked by the same people they are attempting to please -- being accused of not spending enough time on gameplay and too much time on presentation.

The best part is that if the NCAA team were to go ahead and implement a full-on physics engine, which might cause them to overlook team entrances, Online Dynasty mode or some special facemask design, then folks in the vocal minority would be back screaming and complaining about how they can not comprehend why these little details are constantly overlooked. It's a complete no-win situation for the team at Tiburon. You want to talk about what next-gen feels like? How about an Online Dynasty mode that revolutionized online interaction in sports games, complete with Dynasty Anywhere and StoryBuilder. Yeah, mediocre games typically have those types of features."

I don't think I could disagree with this statement any more. Sure, maybe some people might criticize them so it appears that it is a no-win situation, but if you ever go on the forums here, it seems as though the top priority across the board is gameplay. Sure, some people want dreads, facemasks, and authentic team entrances, but to be honest, most people on here just want a game that PLAYS like a football game. And to say that next-gen "feels like" online dynasty is a complete injustice to next-gen games. The whole point of "next-gen" is the technology. The technology allows for improved graphics, as well as brand new innovations in GAMEPLAY, such as real-time physics. Sure, you can incorporate the online dynasty because of the increased online capacity of the systems and the bigger discs, but in terms of sports games, online dynasty does not feel like next-gen.

This is not call of duty. If anyone paid any attention to the polls on this site and to the forums, then you would see that the majority of people on here care about SINGLE PLAYER and SINGLE PLAYER dynasty. When justifying their reasons, a lot of the issues are with online "cheesers" who take advantage of the game's shortcomings and flaws.

A very simple way to eliminate online cheesing and the common complaints that the QBs can drop back 25 yards, or can throw accurate bullets on the run can all be solved with one thing, real-time physics. If real-time physics were incorporated, then people would be justly penalized for not playing the game the way it is meant to be played. Sure, a vocal minority, as you would call it, would be upset, but the majority of players, especially the "casual gamers" EA seems to cater to, would be overjoyed because their game would play like real football.

It took them entirely too many years to incorporate the coaching carousel. I am extremely glad it is in there now and adds an incredible amount of immersion to the single-player dynasty and I cannot wait to use it, as well as custom playbooks. But to say that the gameplay is not mediocre is honestly a lie. Sure, NCAA 11 was a huge step up from previous iterations of the game. But let's be real here, is that really something to write home about? No, it's not... while the gameplay was "improved," it was still not good, or anywhere close to where it should be at 5 years into the next-gen cycle.

The excuses about not improving the game because of a yearly cycle can be used all they want, but the core issue is this: The gameplay should ALWAYS be addressed FIRST, then you add in the other stuff. I can guarantee that if the NCAA team had to scrap the team entrances and some other things in order to make the gameplay and single-player dynasty incredible true to life and play like a real-game football, then people would be ok with not having custom entrances or new commentary or things like that for a year or two. That's the issue. The team is focused on custom entrances and all this window-dressing first, when the gameplay should be the number one focus until it is done right.

It's not that we are being too hard or that we can never be pleased. It's that we will never be pleased until one full development cycle is focused entirely on gameplay and making the game play like it's real-life counterpart it is intending to simulate. All this baloney about online dynasties and custom team entrances amount to absolutely nothing when it comes to the product on the field. I could care less if I see Michigan touch the "Go Blue" banner when they come out of the tunnel if Michigan doesn't play like Michigan and I have to play against an incompetent CPU or get screwed on open receivers by superhuman linebackers. Because ultimately, good gameplay is what causes the most replayability, not custom entrances.

When the focus is on gameplay, the majority of people will give credit where it is due and will be singing the praises of EA sports. But if the focus is still on custom team entrances and all that garbage, then yes, it will seem like nothing is good enough because that's not what MOST people want.

[TheTodd84]

why do you think, Chase, that MLB: The Show, FIFA and NHL are consistently viewed as better games than NCAA? It is the custom entrances? Nope. Is the commentary? A little bit. Is it the presentation? A little bit. But what is it MOSTLY? Wait for it... the GAMEPLAY. So, if that is the case, then why is the dev team at NCAA still focusing on getting Bevo to look right when they should be trying to make oregon play like a damn spread-option team and make the zone read actually usable?

[roadman]

Re: Fact or Fiction: NCAA Football 12 Outlook

It's that we will never be pleased until one full development cycle is focused entirely on gameplay and making the game play like it's real-life counterpart it is intending to simulate.

And that is where it all begins. I agree with most of your post about game play, but I really doubt this will every happen because they have different departments, including marketing, and they all have a say in the game.

For Madden, physics will be the focus in the future, so, I'm assuming it will be the focus for NCAA in the future. I'm sure with the new director overseeing both football games, the focus for physics will be similar to FIFA's physics, as that is where he came from.

[TheTodd84]

And that is where it all begins. I agree with most of your post about game play, but I really doubt this will every happen because they have different departments, including marketing, and they all have a say in the game.

For Madden, physics will be the focus in the future, so, I'm assuming it will be the focus for NCAA in the future. I'm sure with the new director overseeing both football games, the focus for physics will be similar to FIFA's physics, as that is where he came from.

I can only pray as hard as I can that you are right.

[MARTZball]

Never fails to surprise that 'matter of fact' opinions can be construed from game demos. Wait for the finished product. Make an assessment positive or negative then. A demo should be a sample of a game leaving you wanting more. The NCAA 12 demo does that. This is the premiere football sim on the market today and I am confident NCAA 12 will be the game that we have been waiting for on the Next-Gen consoles. NCA11 was a brilliant platform from which to work from, NCAA 12 will be another step in the right direction.

[ChaseB]

Re: Fact or Fiction: NCAA Football 12 Outlook

As I stated things here at OS has changed from how it was several years ago.

Not that there was a sinister motive by these writers in particular, but there seems to be a sinister attitude towards those that have a view that might not be as positive about the game.
(Just read some of the replies)

When the writer starts off by saying "It's people like this..." because the veiw was different, kind of seems like the whole purpose of the write-up was to say those that don't see the game on the same manner, simply are lacking something to have such a view.
(I wouldn't or did not say Stupid)

I wouldn't say that a Gamers can't have an opinion, but I've watched how non-positive notations about EA games have been met with sinister replies that seem to be given more leeway in expression.

In a nutshell, I replied because I wondered if those that agreed with Jayson's write-up (not as positve), if such a person would be given the same leeway to do a Fact or Fiction write-up to counter such gloating perspectives that the writers present?

Would it be Deleted?
Would they be warned or Banned?

I could care less one way or another and take no side, it's a video game.
I've got likes and dislikes, but still will buy and find a way to enjoy it.

At this point, I think we might be talking about different things here. I am not a moderator, nor am I privy to the way folks may or may not be handled on here. But, I can at least say from the writing side of things, that Jayson -- as I said previously -- would have absolutely been on this Fact or Fiction if he was not working on a Backbreaker review because we generally try to get two guys on -- or even three guys in some cases -- so we can really get folks who have passionate differences on topics to make the FoF more interesting than having two people agree more or less. We don't try to manufacture those opinions though, so Dustin and Christian agree more than not hence why it was a bit more one sided on this particular FoF.

I wouldn't go that far.

There are so many perspectives of what looks/plays right and what's changed, there really isn't a right or wrong dealing with the game.
We're talking Millions of different perspectives.

We wouldn't be having many of these discussions if the game was more customizable.

Options, options, options.

I feel that's why so many agreed with Jayson's write-up, because there are no options or have very limited options that allow them to fix what they feel is wrong about their game.

Example:
No Recruit Editor eventhough every year, gamers run to the Forums looking for Slider/Re-Rated Rosters to help improve an aspect of Gameplay they don't like.

Again, so many perspectives, but limited options for Gamers to adjust to their own perspective, is what's driving much of the around here.

I would agree with that overall sentiment and that it makes sense. However, I think you would hear some people say that they did add some customization this year.

why do you think, Chase, that MLB: The Show, FIFA and NHL are consistently viewed as better games than NCAA? It is the custom entrances? Nope. Is the commentary? A little bit. Is it the presentation? A little bit. But what is it MOSTLY? Wait for it... the GAMEPLAY. So, if that is the case, then why is the dev team at NCAA still focusing on getting Bevo to look right when they should be trying to make oregon play like a damn spread-option team and make the zone read actually usable?

I'm not sure why I'm being targeted specifically for this response...

Nevertheless, I would agree the gameplay is why those games are considered better, but I never made any argument that NCAA was better -- not that I even really compared them anywhere, ever -- than those other franchises.

I'm not really going to go down this path of balancing what's done by art team and gameplay team again because I'm pretty sure I already had that discussion recently when it comes to people making an argument that Bevo etc. should be ignored entirely until every gameplay fix occurs. I don't think it's really an argument that is entirely reasonable or feasible but, again, if someone wants to pitch that argument then cool.

[khaliib]

Re: Fact or Fiction: NCAA Football 12 Outlook

I think you would hear some people say that they did add some customization this year.

I don't know if you've had the chance to visit/read about some of the fixes we've found editing player ratings up or down.

We have actual fixes/improvements for many of the Gameplay issues that many gamers are complaining about.

Even video's are provided as proof in some threads to show that these are not fly-by thoughts being thrown around.

I guess when Ben stated that the reason we couldn't/they would provide a Recruit/Player Editor to improve the game was because of how some "Online Cheaters" would use/abuse it, that just felt like a "Shank" in the back to alot of gamers that spent hours/days to find such fixes to cover the Dev's back by improving the game.

If you get a chance, visit one of the threads by Playmaker or GotMadSkillz and see what we've found and are discussing.

Maybe having a writer like yourself do a write-up about what we've found might capture the Dev's attention and help the cause.

If they would simply give us the Editing ability, we would take this game to the next level.

[mirrored32]

Excellent write up! it addresses the debate on the range of responses that are from 'junk' to 'best game ever' and how they are perceived and accepted/denied. One thing that is not in denial is there is plenty of opinion to go around and that shows a ton of interest response for the game. It means the game is desired and wanted being these ranges of thoughts are out there.

Though there are often a minority of responses out that are unconstructive, I think the debate of NCAA 12 being a worthy follow up to NCAA 11 is really a perception of what is the expectation for a new game EVERY YEAR.

IMO I think NCAA 12 have major improvements. #1 non suction blocking #2 real 3d lights #4 Coaching Carousel #5 new game track feature #6 team entrances.

But this aside, I wonder if the game play 'graphics' as in 'banners' etc feel old? is this a reason people feel it isn't 'new' enough? perhaps that there are some cut scenes that were reused, and some feels to the score graphics that make it feel the same? I am not sure. but something to consider non the less.

[Bumble14]

I don't know if you've had the chance to visit/read about some of the fixes we've found editing player ratings up or down.

We have actual fixes/improvements for many of the Gameplay issues that many gamers are complaining about.

Even video's are provided as proof in some threads to show that these are not fly-by thoughts being thrown around.

I guess when Ben stated that the reason we couldn't/they would provide a Recruit/Player Editor to improve the game was because of how some "Online Cheaters" would use/abuse it, that just felt like a "Shank" in the back to alot of gamers that spent hours/days to find such fixes to cover the Dev's back by improving the game.

If you get a chance, visit one of the threads by Playmaker or GotMadSkillz and see what we've found and are discussing.

Maybe having a writer like yourself do a write-up about what we've found might capture the Dev's attention and help the cause.

If they would simply give us the Editing ability, we would take this game to the next level.

Spoke with Ben a few weeks back and he let me know they are looking into providing a patch for NCAA12 that will allow for complete player rating editing in dynasty. Not a guarantee that we will see it, but it sounded very,very promising.

Contrary to popular belief the devs ARE listening. In fact, Ben was the one who brought the topic of a ratings editor up to me at E3 before I could even mention it. They are pretty passionate about the games they make, just like we are.

[dan_457]

Re: Fact or Fiction: NCAA Football 12 Outlook

Spoke with Ben a few weeks back and he let me know they are looking into providing a patch for NCAA12 that will allow for complete player rating editing in dynasty. Not a guarantee that we will see it, but it sounded very,very promising.

Contrary to popular belief the devs ARE listening. They are pretty passionate about the games they make, just like we are.

Now you're going to get everyone's hopes up, haha.

[khaliib]

Re: Fact or Fiction: NCAA Football 12 Outlook

Spoke with Ben a few weeks back and he let me know they are looking into providing a patch for NCAA12 that will allow for complete player rating editing in dynasty. Not a guarantee that we will see it, but it sounded very,very promising.

Contrary to popular belief the devs ARE listening. In fact, Ben was the one who brought the topic of a ratings editor up to me at E3 before I could even mention it. They are pretty passionate about the games they make, just like we are.

Well since I don't drink alcohol, if he does, I'll send him a pack of my favorite kool-aid (tropical punch).
I don't even share this with my wife and kid, so it's a pretty big deal.

I really hope he changes his mind on this one.
Such access will take this game to another level.

[NDFan1029]

I disagree with the writers....its not that "It's people like this that frustrate me the most"......are not knowledgeable of gameplay...they are just calling it like it is. NCAA is SEVERELY underachieving. I do not want to hear next year...or next gen. And most certainly do not compare anything in the EA series to NBA 2K11 or NFL 2K5...they are not in the same realm. NCAA 11 was the best college football game this gen because it has no competition...AP2K8 wipes the floor with it. NCAA 12 DOES feel like 11.5 because the commentary is a decade old, most of the intros this year were in last years game...RTG has virtually NO improvements and the Franchise Mode is the same. So no it is not that we are "never happy"...we just happen to know what real football plays like. When you play NBA 2K11...you can't just play it like a "game" on simulation mode...you must play NBA Basketball...in NCAA Football, there is little strategy involved. Teams don't utilize their strengths and take advantage of superior match-ups.

Yes I am glad EA got rid of suction blocking...so far as I can tell in the DEMO, but there are a TON of other gameplay elements missing and I'm tired of reading articles such as this one, dismissing the fact that EA has done next to nothing over the course of this gen. This article is most certainly written in a biased tone and is out to push an agenda.....mmmmm....the thought of that @OS.....smh. #EverybodyhasanOpinion

I agree with you somewhat. I would've thought given that this game has been out for 6 years on the current gen of consoles, that things like a physics-based tackling or all of the FCS schools would've been added in by now. I can understand the game being barebones for its first or second iteration on this current gen, but there should've been many more improvements made before NCAA 11 came out. NCAA 7-10 is a long time to go before any major additions were made.

EA will never admit it, but I feel like this game runs on a staggered development cycle. One year they put in a million new features, and the next year they only have marginal improvements. I bet you NCAA 13 has as many new features and improvements as 11 did.

[PaperBoyx703]

Excellent voices of reason

[dkrause1971]

Re: Fact or Fiction: NCAA Football 12 Outlook

What i didn't like about the article was comments like "get real", "some people are never happy" and crap like that. I feel articles can be written without snide remarks being added to belittle the people who may dare think the opposite of you.

While i agree with the premise of the article that the demo didn't feel like a NCAA 11.5. I disagree with what i feel was a secondary premise that 2011 was a great game. A football game where the zone defense didn't work, the QBs didn't run, and where many of the stats were jacked right off the bat isn't a great game to me. I won't begrudge anyone who loved it and i also won't belittle anyone who disagrees with me over it.

For those that state- some people can never be happy. Does this comfort you? I wasn't happy with NCAA 11 but i loved playing Demon's Souls this winter, or uncharted 2, or MLB the show and many other games. Just because someone doesn't post happy thoughts on this board about this one game doesn't mean they are a picky a-hole who lives to point out issues. They just are not happy with that particular game/series and since we only have EA football games to represented the most popular sport in the United States, i can relate to that frustration.

I personally come to this forum less and less. I remember when topics were actually discussed here and not just some polarizing game of haters and defenders. I sure hope that changes.