Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

**Goldmember2** · 07-12-2011, 06:18 PM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

this is a dope idea man, i like it.

who know's how a team like CMU might perform in the big 10 with a boost in conference prestige to help their recruiting. Who knows, they might hang around long enough to keep a traditional power completely out of the big show for a while. i might have to try this

**Pogo27** · 07-12-2011, 06:28 PM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

Originally posted by Goldmember2

this is a dope idea man, i like it.

who know's how a team like CMU might perform in the big 10 with a boost in conference prestige to help their recruiting. Who knows, they might hang around long enough to keep a traditional power completely out of the big show for a while. i might have to try this

Yea, like I said, the Big Ten is kind of a problem for me here because of how weak the MAC is (and I don't know if you noticed, but Penn St is in the ACC now, giving then the potential to end up in the same conference with Pitt after promotion).

But remember, for a team to stay in the upper conference, they really don't have to win all that many games. They just have not finish last.

The knock against Boise State has always been "Yeah, but what would they do in a real conference?" Well, we'll get to see with this system. After year 1, you move them into the Pac-12 for Washington State (most likely scenario I believe). Now think of this conference a few years down the road. Nevada and BYU end up replacing Washington and Arizona?

This system, after about 5+ seasons of use, will ensure that the top conference stays very strong. Maybe you lost your starting QB and HB and end up finishing last. So you go down for a season, but if your program is really good enough to deserve being in a BCS conference, you should be right back up after one season, right?

And you're exactly right about the recruiting thing. European soccer works kind of the same. The top division teams have more income and can afford better players, etc. If USF wins C-USA and replaces Vandy in the SEC, will they be able to hold off relegation for a couple of seasons, and will 3 years in the SEC be enough of a recruiting boost to turn USF into a legitimate SEC powerhouse?

It's definitely an interesting experiment.

**Dirty Turtles** · 07-12-2011, 08:55 PM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

I like this idea, but I'd personally probably put Houston in the MWC and keep Nebraska in the Big 12, Penn St in the Big 10 and Duke in the ACC for at least the first season.

I might have to steal this idea for another dynasty.

**Pogo27** · 07-12-2011, 09:04 PM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

Originally posted by Dirty Turtles

I like this idea, but I'd personally probably put Houston in the MWC and keep Nebraska in the Big 12, Penn St in the Big 10 and Duke in the ACC for at least the first season.

I might have to steal this idea for another dynasty.

If you put Houston in the MWC, then who do you take out of the MWC?

As for Penn St, Duke, etc... it's centered around Notre Dame. Notre Dame is pretty far west to be playing in the Big East, in my opinion. And Penn State is way farther east than the rest of the Big Ten. As I mentioned in the earlier post, Penn State in the ACC... certainly a departure from tradition, but... they're in the same group of 22 teams with Pitt now, and I think that makes for an interesting rivalry game.

And I just moved Duke down to the Big East in order to make space for Penn State yet keep them in that same group of 22 teams where they can work back up to the ACC (if they're good enough).

**Dirty Turtles** · 07-12-2011, 09:32 PM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

Originally posted by Pogo27

If you put Houston in the MWC, then who do you take out of the MWC?

As for Penn St, Duke, etc... it's centered around Notre Dame. Notre Dame is pretty far west to be playing in the Big East, in my opinion. And Penn State is way farther east than the rest of the Big Ten. As I mentioned in the earlier post, Penn State in the ACC... certainly a departure from tradition, but... they're in the same group of 22 teams with Pitt now, and I think that makes for an interesting rivalry game.

And I just moved Duke down to the Big East in order to make space for Penn State yet keep them in that same group of 22 teams where they can work back up to the ACC (if they're good enough).

I'd drop Wyoming out of the MWC. Notre Dame makes sense in both the Big East and Big Ten. They play a lot of Big 10 teams and are more geographically suited for it over the Big East, but they are affiliated with the Big East in all other sports.

I dunno, it's something I will mull over when I "borrow" your idea. It's a great one and will make for some fun/interesting scenarios.

**moylan1234** · 07-12-2011, 09:36 PM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...u-make-19.html

**Pogo27** · 07-12-2011, 09:37 PM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

Originally posted by Dirty Turtles

I'd drop Wyoming out of the MWC. Notre Dame makes sense in both the Big East and Big Ten. They play a lot of Big 10 teams and are more geographically suited for it over the Big East, but they are affiliated with the Big East in all other sports.

I dunno, it's something I will mull over when I "borrow" your idea. It's a great one and will make for some fun/interesting scenarios.

Yea, the Big East affiliation with all the other sports is the only reason why ND makes sense in the Big East. I had them in the Big East originally, but reconsidered. But moving Nebraska to the Big 12 and all that makes sense too.

This is just kind of a base for people to go off and make their own little tweaks.

**gerg1234** · 07-13-2011, 10:21 AM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

I'm doing the same thing. I'm at work so I can't share my set up....but I'm just simming until some good rosters come out. After the second season Miami (OH) is in the top tier.

Florida fell to the second tier and didn't make it back up after the second season!

**BurnsideAdmiral** · 07-13-2011, 10:47 AM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

Hmmm pretty sweet idea. I think I'd make it more EPL style though and do 3 teams to relegate/promote. But those "conference" sizes are a bit bigger so maybe two? Put a little more emphasis on it?

**Pogo27** · 07-13-2011, 11:11 AM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

Originally posted by BurnsideAdmiral

Hmmm pretty sweet idea. I think I'd make it more EPL style though and do 3 teams to relegate/promote. But those "conference" sizes are a bit bigger so maybe two? Put a little more emphasis on it?

EPL (and Euro soccer in other nations) promotes/relegates 3 teams. However the leagues are definitely bigger.

In England, the Premier League is 20 teams. The Championship League, League 1, and League 2 are each 24 teams.

I think you could promote/relegate 2 teams and be fine, but I feel like 3 teams (25% of the top conference, 30% of the bottom conference) is too much, particularly with such a short season.

Soccer promotes/relegates 12.5%/15% of their leagues and they play a 38 or 46 game regular season (everyone plays everyone twice) to determine who goes up or down.

In the lower conference, sure, you're playing everyone once, but only once. You don't get a home and away.

In the upper conference, you're only guaranteed to play everyone in your division. You're therefore guaranteed to have a different schedule of teams than all 6 teams in the opposite division (while you could have the same, or similar enough schedule as teams in your division).

Therefore, I don't think 2 is such a big problem if perhaps you take the two worst teams from each division.

By the way, speaking of soccer, even though it's not a play-off or anything, doesn't this system make the BCS bowls feel a bit like Champions League?

Oh, and speaking of the BCS bowls... I didn't leave any bowls tied to any specific league. The five top conferences have Automatic Qualifiers, so they're all guaranteed to go. And like I said, the rest of the spots should automatically be filled from the top conferences, at least after a few seasons. Boise State might nab one in the first season, etc.

**Marcus34** · 07-13-2011, 11:18 AM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

Pretty cool idea...except I can definitely see instances where two teams continue to swap conferences multiple straight years.

ie - the worst Big Ten school continues to win the MAC to get back into the Big Ten and the MAC school who just got promoted drops right back down from having the worst record

**Wildcats302** · 07-13-2011, 11:20 AM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

Hey Pogo, have you done a test run of this dynasty yet? I've noticed some serious schedule issues in my custom conference test dynasty and cannot believe no one else on here has noticed any.(Maybe it's just my copy lol if so I'm taking this dumb thing back and getting another!).

I keep seeing 12 team conferences schedule 9, 10,(even 11 once) conference games. Then again, I was running with 8 12 team leagues...that may have led to said issue. Just frustrating for those of us who wanna make some more championship games.

**frnkpw13** · 07-13-2011, 11:23 AM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

Originally posted by Pogo27

I've long thought the solution to the non-BCS conference teams complaints about BCS bowl bids was pretty simple: adopt the European soccer style system of promotion and relegation.

For those that don't know, the promotion/relegation system takes the bottom team in the top conference and replaces them with the top team from the bottom conference (in soccer, it's 3 teams at a time out of a league of 20).

I spent a lot of time trying to figure out the best way to do this with NCAA 12, and here's the system I came up with. I'll be using it for one of my offline dynasties and probably doing an online dynasty using this system as well.

First thing's first. In NCAA 12, there are 11 division 1 conferences. You can't delete conferences and you can't add new conferences. So there's an oddman out. I created 5 top conferences (BCS Conferences) and each has a Feeder Conference tied to it. Additionally, there's an extra 11th conference. In my version, it's somewhat regionalized, but basically it's the extra teams that don't really fit that well in my system (and they're all mostly pretty bad teams). This 11th conference stays the same.

The 5 top BCS conferences each have 12 teams. The 5 feeder conferences each have 10 teams. I did this to ensure every BCS conference has a championship game. I also wanted the feeder conferences to ensure every team played each other, and 10 teams minimizes their OOC schedule. Each BCS conference is absolutely locked to it's feeder conference. So for example, the Pac-12 and WAC will always promote/relegate to each other and no other conference. This keeps the conferences regionally appropriate.

So here are the BCS-Feeder conference ties.

Pac-12 relegates to WAC
Big 12 relegates to MWC
SEC relegates to C-USA
Big Ten relegates to MAC
ACC relegates to Big East
Sun Belt is the extra conference.
Army & Navy remain independents.

I suppose if you really wanted, if a team in a bottom conference was playing consistently bad year in year out, you could eventually replace them from one of the left overs in the Sun Belt (if it's regionally appropriate).

Anyway, here are the teams in their conferences. I tried to change as little as I could with the top conferences, but the only two left completely unchanged are the Pac12 and the SEC.

BCS Conference: Pac-12
Arizona
Arizona State
Cal
Colorado
Oregon
Oregon State
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Utah
Washington
Washington State

Their feeder conference: WAC
BYU
Boise State
Fresno State
Hawai'i
Idaho
Nevada
San Diego State
San Jose State
UNLV
Utah State

BCS Conference: Big 12
Baylor
Houston
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
TCU
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech

Their feeder conference: MWC
Air Force
Colorado State
New Mexico
New Mexico State
North Texas
Rice
SMU
Tulsa
Utep
Wyoming

BCS Conference: Big Ten
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Nebraska
Notre Dame
Northwestern
Ohio State
Purdue
Wisconsin

Their feeder conference: MAC
Bowling Green
Central Michigan
Cincinnati
Eastern Michigan
Kent State
Louisville
Miami (Ohio)
Ohio
Toledo
Western Michigan

BCS Conference: SEC
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
LSU
Kentucky
Mississippi State
Ole Miss
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

Their feeder conference: C-USA
Arkansas State
Louisiana Tech
Memphis
Southern Miss
Troy
UAB
UCF
UL Lafeyette
UL Monroe
USF

BCS Conference: ACC
Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Maryland
Miami (Fla.)
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Penn State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

Their feeder conference: Big East
Buffalo
Connecticut
Duke
ECU
Marshall
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia

The leftovers: Sun Belt
Akron
Ball State
FIU
Florida Atlantic
Midd Tenn State
Northern Illinois
Tulane
Western Kentucky

The leftovers: Independents
Army
Navy

So the goal would be, each season, to promote the champion from the feeder conference and demote the team with the worst record in the BCS conference. Divisions in the top conference would be scrambled every year because geography would be hard to manage with the constant promotion and relegation. But using this system, the top conference should absolutely be very strong.

The main flaw I see is that the MAC is pretty weak compared to the Big Ten and just in general compared to the other feeder conferences, but without doing anything odd geographically, I'm not sure there's much I can do to help this...

Love the idea! My only suggestions that makes sense to me is to switch Georgia and South Carolina (SEC) with Florida State and Miami (ACC). what do you think?

**TheDutchDad** · 07-13-2011, 11:28 AM

Re: Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

Are we able to change conference alignment after each season? I simmed some last night but didn't see that option.

Promotion/Relegation? Pogo's custom conferences for NCAA12

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