SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

[Behindshadows]

Video 1

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/bXeqIGF8vm4?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;hd=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/bXeqIGF8vm4?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;hd=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="390" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[Kruza]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

Thanks for uploading this video of SBK 2011.

Heh, I would add a lot more to what I see in this video, but I understand it's posted just to show off some of the game.

Kruza

[TCrouch]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

Holy bumper bikes

[Behindshadows]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

Thanks for uploading this video of SBK 2011.

Heh, I would add a lot more to what I see in this video, but I understand it's posted just to show off some of the game.

Kruza

I've been having the game 2 months before it was released, but was told not to release footage....What else do you want to see....

Holy bumper bikes

Yeah the A.I. knocks me off the road all the time..it's like Road Rage Sega Genesis

[Kruza]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

Heh, nah that's not what I meant before. What I wanted to add was more of the constructive criticism variety more so than being a request to see more things. I've already seen several YouTube videos of quick races over the last few weeks. But I have yet to see some videos of a few attempted SBK Tour challenges.

Anyway... TCrouch already touched on one aspect of it, which was seeing all the contact you were making with other bikes. And a lot of that had to do with the lines you were taking during the race. Most of the CPU bikes are taking the proper lines through the Miller Motorsports Park track, but man... you were way off. After making the first big mistake to go off track it would've been wise to try and carefully ease back into the pack and then get up to speed, or just get behind them all and then work your way back up to improve your position.

There were other stuff I wanted to point out while watching that video, but I don't know how you would take it so I'll stop here.

Kruza

[BIG CAROLINA]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

I've been having the game for 2 months, but was told not to release footage....What else do you want to see....



Yeah the A.I. knocks me off the road all the time..it's like Road Rage Sega Genesis

I have had the game since release on the PS3, why would you not be able to post videos? The AI is no where near Road Rage Sega Genesis, unless the PC version is different from the PS3 version?

Not to be a jerk but it's mainly the lines you are taking and your braking points(most people who I let try and play just end up quitting due to the difficulity). I have never had those issues with the AI and I am pretty deep in my career.

Bike games are not easy to get to grips with and everyting you know about racing cars has no benefit at all when it comes to bike games. This game has some of the best AI that I have seen in a video game. They do not have the "train effect", they take different lines and will pass you when you leave an opening.

EDIT: I just noticed that Kruza has already mentioned what I said

[Behindshadows]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

Nevermind!

Video was just to show graphics and gameplay nothing more....

[TCrouch]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

That whooshing sound was the point flying by...

[RunN1st]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

I don't have interest in motorcycle racing games anymore... but this is the game that got me into virtual racing.

<iframe width="300" height="200" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0hlgUTwu5lA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[tyagi]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

I have had the game since release on the PS3, why would you not be able to post videos?

I'd be really interested to hear how the latest SBK game compares with the current MotoGP title. I've tried the demo of the MotoGP games, but they've never really grabbed me, so I'd be interested to hear whether the SBK title is better or how it's different.

I've ridden bikes in real life for >10 years (on the street only), so am interested in picking something up. I'm just looking for some solid recommendations. Any platform is fine.

[Kruza]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

Hey tyagi,

I haven't played MotoGP 10/11 for myself to add anything else to this information, but these are general thoughts on the game from guys I respect and/or know who rides real bikes on the street and on tracks.

* The brake forces in MotoGP 10/11 are implemented wrong. The initial force generated from applying the front brake affter acceleration should be at its strongest point due to the tremendous amount of load transfer transitioning from the back end of the bike to the front end. However, in MotoGP 10/11 brake forces act stronger as the bike gets slower, which is the complete opposite of how it is on a real bike. Because of this, it's understandable to see why trailbraking in this game is unnecessarily difficult to execute properly -- and almost impossibe in some instances (i.e. approaching a downhill corner).

* Turning the bike from upright position into a full lean in MotoGP 10/11 is not nearly as responsive as it should be. Many point out this being a direct result of the lack of feeling of weight of the bike while riding.

* Change-of-direction response (side-to-side transition) of the bike is too twitchy. Again, this issue points to lack of feeling of weight of the bike.

* There is an assumption that the lateral forces and gyroscopic forces exerted on the bike pivots from the head of the rider instead of the contact patch of the tires (the proper point). For proof of the assumption, pick out a track with a long straight segment followed by a medium-speed corner like Catalunya and ride along the white chalk left edge of the road in upright position, then turn as you approach the first right hander. The wheels of the bike will drift to the left and go off the track as the bike tips over. This should not happen.

* The way power wheelie happen in MotoGP 10/11 is unnatural. A bike just won't flip over that quickly no matter how powerful the engine is and/or how hard the throttle is being applied. The front wheel will likely come off the ground after accelerating hard from standstill position, but the weight of the front end of the bike should keep the instantaneous flipover from occuring.

* It's possible to turn in full lean while off track in the grass or gravel and still not fall off the bike.

Kruza

[BIG CAROLINA]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

Hey tyagi,

I haven't played MotoGP 10/11 for myself to add anything else to this information, but these are general thoughts on the game from guys I respect and/or know who rides real bikes on the street and on tracks.

* The brake forces in MotoGP 10/11 are implemented wrong. The initial force generated from applying the front brake affter acceleration should be at its strongest point due to the tremendous amount of load tranfser transitioning from the back end of the bike to the front end. However, in MotoGP 10/11 brake forces act stronger as the bike gets slower, which is the complete opposite of how it is on a real bike. Because of this, it's understandable to see why trailbraking in this game is unnecessarily difficult to execute properly -- and almost impossibe in some instances (i.e. approaching a downhill corner).

* Turning the bike from upright position into a full lean in MotoGP 10/11 is not nearly as responsive as it should be. Many point out this being a direct result of the lack of feeling of weight of the bike while riding.

* Change-of-direction response (side-to-side transition) of the bike is too twitchy. Again, this issue points to lack of feeling of weight of the bike.

* There is an assumption that the lateral forces and gyroscopic forces exerted on the bike pivots from the head of the rider instead of the contact patch of the tires (the proper point). For proof of the assumption, pick out a track with a long straight segment followed by a medium-speed corner like Catalunya and ride along the white chalk left edge of the road in upright position, then turn as you approach the first right hander. The wheels of the bike will drift to the left and go off the track as the bike tips over. This should not happen.

* The way power wheelie happen in MotoGP 10/11 is unnatural. A bike just won't flip over that quickly no matter how powerful the engine is and/or how hard the throttle is being applied. The front wheel will likely come off the ground after accelerating hard from standstill position, but the weight of the front end of the bike should keep the instantaneous flipover from occuring.

* It's possible to turn in full lean while off track in the grass or gravel and still not fall off the bike.

Kruza

Honestly, I was trying to stay out of this thread and did not notice that he was asking me a question. You pretty much nailed GP 10/11, you can fall off the bike but only if you have TC turned OFF.

SBK 11= Simulation
Moto GP 10/11= Stimulation

[tyagi]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

I haven't played MotoGP 10/11 for myself to add anything else to this information, but these are general thoughts on the game from guys I respect and/or know who rides real bikes on the street and on tracks.

Thanks for those great bullet points, Kruza.

Reading them through, you've actually managed to put in to words a number of the funny/awkward feelings I got from playing the MotoGP 10/11 demo.

I totally agree about the braking.

I totally agree about the pivot point for the bike. I was very confused about why I couldn't tip the bike in properly and was running out to one side as I did so. I've done a lot of road bike training over the years which has focused on position and riding lines to increase observation through corners, so have a pretty good understanding of how the bike should behave (or at least how I think it should behave). The MotoGP bike behaviour when tipping in to corners was really throwing me (literally )

I think I'd find a few of these points quite counter-intuitive, so I'll try the SBK demo to see what that's like. I'm surprised at some of the physics model assumptions the MotoGP team made, but perhaps the programmers had to change things according to play-tester feedback etc.

[Kruza]

Re: SBK 2011 - PC - Gameplay - Behindshadows

No problem man. Glad to be of help.

I still have questions of my own about why the second and third points are the way they are (going from lack of responsiveness to being too responsive), but I'm thinking it's this way because a number of turning forces along with the gravitational force are not implemented correctly in either situation.

I also want to add that despite its numerous handling physics quirks, some motorcycle gaming enthusiasts admit that MotoGP 10/11 is still fun to play. However, playing this game a lot could also instill bad motorcycle riding habits for people who are accustomed to riding bikes in real life. And furthermore, those expecting this game to represent a simulation of how a bike actually rides will be very disappointed.

And by the way... to be fair about things, there are three big issues I've read about regarding SBK X. The first point is that it is more difficult to get the bike from upright position at turn-in to full lean in the apex of a corner than it should be. Second, applying light pressure on the front brake while leaning shouldn't immediately stand up the bike the way it does in the game. And lastly, the use of rear brakes in order to ride fast in the corners is emphasized far too much in the game over maintaining proper corner entry speed, precise steering and throttle management, which are all factors that are suppose to represent more important criteria in terms of improving cornering skills and techniques.

Kruza