Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

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  • Ramminyou
    MVP
    • Feb 2005
    • 1222

    #241
    Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

    Originally posted by TallyBoi7
    I just noticed this in my most recent game. I was using Hawaii going up against Louisville. I scored 20 quick points and racked damn near 300 yards passing in the first half running 4 verge. The CPU kept bringing their safety up too far, lleaving a wide open lane up the middle of the field...in the 2nd half, the CPU finally had their safties playing back and shut the play down limiting me in the 2nd half...I was up 27-7 at halftime...I ended up winning 44-12...btw, I'm using modified AA sliders.
    Yeah and that was the problem with it last year. I'll say this, though: the CPU does fare much better against 4 verts over the middle this year than they did last year, at least on AA with CPU pass coverage up to 100. With Mizzou against Nebraska, I went 12-26 in the first half running nothing but 4 verts and throwing to that middle receiver, with 230 yards and 2 TDs. I also had 2 picks, though, and I probably would have had more if the CPU interception slider was higher (I have it at 35). So while it's still possible to expose the middle of the field with it, I noticed 2 things: The DBs recover much better this year than last year when separation is created, and the ball gets jarred out of receivers' hands upon impact much more. If I tried this in '11 right now with the same slider settings, I'd probably have gone about 20-26 with 4 TDs and close to 400 yards in that first half. No joke.

    So while it is still probably more easy to run than it should be, the picks and the ability of the defense to break up the pass over the middle would have me thinking twice when running 4 verts even if I were the type to try and abuse it.

    At any rate, I mostly play Coach Mode, so I don't have to worry about even being attempted to abuse the play, because the CPU isn't aware of the potential for abuse anyway.

    Comment

    • Darkeus
      Rookie
      • Jul 2008
      • 407

      #242
      Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

      I still do not really see it. Where I was able to pass last year I cannot. I just don't see what everybody is talking about.
      Last edited by Darkeus; 07-16-2011, 09:07 PM.
      OH...
      IO...

      The Scarlet and Grey, best team in the land!

      Comment

      • Playmakers
        Hall Of Fame
        • Sep 2004
        • 15419

        #243
        Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

        Originally posted by Ramminyou
        After watching your videos, it's clear you don't know what makes the 4 Verts play so effective. The slot receiver/TE going over the middle is the route that is money, not the streaking receivers on the sidelines. The defense, whether in zone or in man, simply do not react to the play properly the majority of the time. Sometimes they might be able to make the play if the ball isn't throw with good accuracy or the timing is disrupted, but it happens far too often. Trust me - it was the same last year no matter what you did with sliders, difficulty, etc. I may post some videos eventually if I feel so inclined, but I think there are plenty of users here who know what I'm talking about. After playing online earlier today, it's obvious the Play Now community is widely aware of it.
        LOL!

        Now it's i don't know what i'm talking about after i showed you the outside WR's being contained by Pitt's Corners Revis and Lewis

        That's fine i loaded up some videos of the Slot WR's and TE in NCAA 11 being defended closely by the safeties over the middle Ed Reed and Bennie Blades of Miami all on 4 verticals. The results were the same both safeties still played the ball better and reacted better than what i've seen in NCAA 12 running the same plays.

        Not sure what the debate it is here i'm simply just giving my opinion that i didn't have this problem last year and this year I'm seeing it big time that's why i posted the videos to show the type of coverage i was getting by the CPU last year and it's not the same this year for me

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        Comment

        • Darkeus
          Rookie
          • Jul 2008
          • 407

          #244
          Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

          I have seen safeties defend those plays in NCAA 12. Not debating, just saying I have not really seen this problem at all.
          OH...
          IO...

          The Scarlet and Grey, best team in the land!

          Comment

          • Ramminyou
            MVP
            • Feb 2005
            • 1222

            #245
            Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

            Again, Playmakers, you show that you either don't know what was being abused or you just don't think it was as big of a deal as I do and did in '11. Most of those slot routes are not the right one. The one that gets exploited is the one that cuts hard across the field, the inner most route in a trips set. I only specifically noticed one of those videos highlighting that route being defended (the last one), and it looked like the person playing QB held the ball too long and put too much touch on it.

            But I never said it worked 100% of the time. The CPU could defend it every now and then. I think I admitted as much. Heck, most money plays can be defended in one way or another. But the vast majority of the time, that route was wide open, especially when the CPU sent extra rushers. There's a reason people online abused it constantly, and why I had to manually control the MLB on just about every play in a game I played online earlier today. It's a money route that is easily exploited, but it doesn't seem as bad as last year's.

            Comment

            • nasty5037
              Rookie
              • May 2008
              • 20

              #246
              Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

              Originally posted by ab2c4
              I have been playing this series almost daily since 1993 Bill Walsh College football on the Genesis and I have almost no offense playing on AA. I keep adjusting sliders to the point where the cpu INT and Pass Defense is set to 25 and I still can't complete 50% of my passes. I am going to drop down to Varsity and see how it goes, but so far the cpu pass coverage seems to be impossible to do anything against. Their DB's and LB's are like super humans on steriods that can leap 10 yards in the opposite direction to knock down or intercept passes (I have watched instand replay on some plays and this is actually happening), are "smarter" than an MIT Grad student, and can predict what I am going to do better than Nostradamus probably ever could. I am playing the ps3 version if that matters.

              I will keep playing it and adjusting sliders, and wait to see if they put out a patch or tuner to tweak things. If the game stays as it is I could see myself going back to NCAA 11 ultimately and selling this, but I hope that is not the case.
              I agree 110% with this post, as I said before I am having the same problems as this person. Also I tried a playing as west va and I passed deep using the 4 verts and won my first game with close to 600 yards passing? Insane swings in the difficulty in the passing game. I use to love playing as a bad QB on a bad team for the challenge of finding the open man and timing the routes. Now, if I play with a c or d team, no matter if I time the pass play perfectly and have him open, some defender magically moves in front of the receiver. That, combined with the ability of all defenders being able to play the entirety of their zone, has made it nearly impossible to pass short to med range against the zone. A LB should not be able to jump 5 feet side ways or in the air. Of course adding in the fact that you can beat every team deep just makes this game frustrating

              I am using AA on the 360 and all manner of Sliders trying to find a median. As of now, I am out of luck.

              Comment

              • TallyBoi7
                Pro
                • Mar 2007
                • 673

                #247
                Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

                Originally posted by Darkeus
                I have seen safeties defend those plays in NCAA 12. Not debating, just saying I have not really seen this problem at all.
                Yeah...they will defend it but most times they don't and it's an easy 20-30 yard reception every time.
                NCAA: Florida A&M Rattlers
                NFL: Jacksonville Jaguars/Cincinnati Bengals
                NBA: Orlando Magic
                MLB: Atlanta Braves

                Comment

                • bigeastbumrush
                  My Momma's Son
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 19245

                  #248
                  Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

                  I'm playing on AA default sliders for now.

                  I've thrown at least 4 INTs a game.

                  I rarely can complete a bomb. I actually laugh at people who even call 4 Verticals because that's been the biggest cheese play in all of EA Sports football titles.

                  I don't even bother with that.

                  I tend to get about 3 INTs a game on defense.

                  Looking for some good sliders. Any suggestions for my issues?

                  Comment

                  • aga11ah
                    Rookie
                    • Jul 2006
                    • 401

                    #249
                    Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

                    Originally posted by bigeastbumrush
                    I'm playing on AA default sliders for now.

                    I've thrown at least 4 INTs a game.

                    I rarely can complete a bomb. I actually laugh at people who even call 4 Verticals because that's been the biggest cheese play in all of EA Sports football titles.

                    I don't even bother with that.

                    I tend to get about 3 INTs a game on defense.

                    Looking for some good sliders. Any suggestions for my issues?
                    I know what you mean man.. when it's 3rd and 5.. I'm thinking RUN on this game.. that's how bad passing is. the medium passing game is impossible on this game.. the only success I've had is using TE's.. but who wants to do that all the time on a videogame? #1 WR's get so much attention that I can't even be productive with them unless it's a deep ball user catch. the passing defense by the CPU is insane... the only hope you have is the vertical play... and even then ur WR will most likely drop it or the QB will overthrow it.

                    jetpack Linebackers, super god Safeties, and DB's that catch over the shoulder INT's ala Willie Mays style... thanks EA.
                    Last edited by aga11ah; 07-17-2011, 02:45 PM.

                    Comment

                    • ManiacMatt1782
                      Who? Giroux!
                      • Jul 2006
                      • 3982

                      #250
                      Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

                      Originally posted by ehh
                      I wouldn't know because no matter who I use my OL is sieve on AA or Heisman. I never have enough time to let my WRs get that deep down the field.
                      use your blocking hot routes.
                      www.twitch.tv/maniacmatt1228
                      www.youtube.com/maniacmatt1782

                      Comment

                      • hellbent
                        Rookie
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 93

                        #251
                        Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

                        Finally got to play my first game today and am seeing the same issues. CPU locks down the underneath routes and gets routinely blown up by the long ball, which is oddly reminiscent of the passing game problems with NCAA 06.

                        Ran a test game as Wash St (me) vs Washington (CPU) on Heisman, default everything but Game Speed (slow) on 7 minute Qtrs. My QB stats: 11-26 for 394 yds, 0 TDs, 4 INTs. 3 of the picks came from trying to force the deep throw. Ran ZERO "Verticals" plays and never used 5 wides on any play. Won 37-34 as the CPU piled up tons of offense by mostly throwing underneath and running the football.

                        Honestly, this game would be just about perfect with a patch (or slider settings) to help the CPU lock down the deep ball. The CPU finally doesn't suck running the ball and calls a pretty good game overall. I can implement house rules to avoid exploiting the CPU, but it's hard to intentionally NOT go deep on 3rd and long. If this is playing the same online, I can't imagine the cheesing and spamming of 4 verts that must be going on already.

                        i really hope someone comes up with a fix for this soon...

                        Comment

                        • cbc72
                          Rookie
                          • Jun 2003
                          • 344

                          #252
                          Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

                          Originally posted by ManiacMatt1782
                          use your blocking hot routes.
                          Yes, I have found this does help, as it should.

                          I think I just got lazy in not using them because I really didn't need to often in years past.

                          Comment

                          • ehh
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Mar 2003
                            • 28962

                            #253
                            Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

                            Originally posted by ManiacMatt1782
                            use your blocking hot routes.
                            I also remedied this by varying my counts at the line. Used to just be on the first or second hut every time (which was all you needed in every previous version of NCAA), once I started going up to 4-5 and really mixing it up I was good to go.
                            "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                            "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                            Comment

                            • ab2c4
                              Pro
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 788

                              #254
                              Re: Something is seriously wrong with the defensive AI.

                              After my first 8 games on AA and being very frustrated with the game, I played two games tonight on Varsity. The game played Much better. My offense was pretty realistic against the cpu defense. The cpu offense was ok but I will need to adjust the sliders a little bit to give the cpu a little more offensive production.

                              On Varsity this game seems to play much more realistic, at least for me. Both games tonight I picked opponents that were pretty much equal, and will continue to do so while work on the sliders. It played so much better for me tonight though.

                              Comment

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