Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

[BoSoxPujols]

I have a 22 year old B potential pitcher. He's the 7th best pitcher in my entire organization yet he wants to retire due to a "poor free agent market". What? Even if I go in and bump him to 99's across the board(just to test it) he still retires.

Why would the game be designed so that no matter what certain guys retired regardless of potential/skill/etc?

[yanksrule4ever]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

I don't know why he would retire in the first place, but if you are past the draft, that is why he always retires. After the draft, the game locks retirements.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

Retirements are looked in on players after the draft is done. Before when the draft was placed in the offseason you could always reload it to change who retired, but since it was moved to June, that's when the game determines who the new players are going to replace.

It isn't perfect, but hey, it's not like it can't happen in real-life as well (just change the reason for retirement).

[mondoguitar]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

Retirements are looked in on players after the draft is done. Before when the draft was placed in the offseason you could always reload it to change who retired, but since it was moved to June, that's when the game determines who the new players are going to replace.

It isn't perfect, but hey, it's not like it can't happen in real-life as well (just change the reason for retirement).

Like Manny retiring instead of serving his 100 game suspension. LOL Who could've seen that coming. haha

[BoSoxPujols]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

I don't know why he would retire in the first place, but if you are past the draft, that is why he always retires. After the draft, the game locks retirements.

Retirements are looked in on players after the draft is done. Before when the draft was placed in the offseason you could always reload it to change who retired, but since it was moved to June, that's when the game determines who the new players are going to replace.

It isn't perfect, but hey, it's not like it can't happen in real-life as well (just change the reason for retirement).

The game "locking in" retirements is one of the dumbest things I've seen it do. Jim Thome retired due to "ability" when he hit .275 with 48HR's and 124RBI's.

The difference with the guy you posted is my guy was pitching at AA ball and was a September call up and started 3 games going 1-1 with an ERA around 3.15. He was going to be in the starting rotation next season. Him retiring due to "lack of a FA market" is absurd since he is a minor leaguer and is under team control. The FA market would have nothing to do with him. He was making 130k this past year.

The Show does a lot of things really well but like most sports games the franchise and dynasty logic on some of the most basic levels is just beyond awful.

The 22 year old B potential MLB pitcher retires....however Polin Trinidad, an F potential AAA pitcher who is also a FA doesn't?

Wut?

Like Manny retiring instead of serving his 100 game suspension. LOL Who could've seen that coming. haha

Well Manny was washed up and done. So it really wasn't that surprising.

[Knight165]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

He was definitely at least a "B".
Deal with it....

....http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4849432


M.K.
Knight165

[thaSLAB]

He was definitely at least a "B".
Deal with it....

....http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4849432


M.K.
Knight165

This is the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread, lol. Couldn't remember the name tho.


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[BoSoxPujols]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

He was definitely at least a "B".
Deal with it....

....http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4849432


M.K.
Knight165

1. Desme never saw the majors. In fact he never played above High-A ball. My player was actually in the big leagues.

2. The "logic" was a "poor free agent market". As I've already covered this player should have been under team control for years. Free agency wouldn't have been an issue.

"Deal with it" isn't a solution to the underlying issue of SCEA not having the player under team control issue correct and their retirement logic being absurd.(ie basing it off the draft results...what sense does that make?) Also, it's not even consistant across the board. I can sim to retirements from the end of the season and see Jeff Baker(torn achillies) and Adam Wainwright retire due to injury....yet sometimes they don't

The retirement logic of this game is a joke. "Deal with it" doesn't actually address the problem or even acknowledge there is one...when there is.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

Did you read my post or skim through it? No one said it was great or good, but everyone agrees that it can be improved upon. The game has to get rid of players and for the most part only sees overall, potential and the incoming draft class from that season because there is a certain amount of players that the game itself can have on all the teams and in free agency which why currently the draft never goes past 5 rounds (or you'd see a lot of people retire).

They're still working on improving the retirement logic, but until they can have a fully-fleshed out minor leagues system where the majority of the players that retire and are replaced are older low-potential minor league players (i.e. 24-27 year olds or whatever having trouble progressing) we're going to see this type of thing.

[BoSoxPujols]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

Did you read my post or skim through it?

Not sure how you can even ask this seeing as I addressed the absurdity of the draft based player retirements.

No one said it was great or good, but everyone agrees that it can be improved upon.

Really?

"Deal with it" implies it can be improved upon?

Odd.

The game has to get rid of players and for the most part only sees overall, potential and the incoming draft class from that season because there is a certain amount of players that the game itself can have on all the teams and in free agency which why currently the draft never goes past 5 rounds (or you'd see a lot of people retire).

Yeah I know. Which I why I directly pointed out that an F potential 26 year old pitcher who is a FA didn't retire. Yet the 22 B potential player who saw major league action did. The logic the CPU uses to determine what players retire make no sense. If anything it should be purging lower level players rather than the good ones.

Pointing out an incredibly rare exception to the rule of a player who never saw higher than A ball retiring to become a priest and using it to excuse poor retirement logic in game makes little to no sense. B potential 22 year old starting pitchers who are under team control for another 3-4 years shouldn't be retiring because of "poor free agent class".

They're still working on improving the retirement logic

Who from SCEA said that?

but until they can have a fully-fleshed out minor leagues system .

It still amazes me that we don't have fully playable A ball in the game.

[thaSLAB]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

Not sure how you can even ask this seeing as I addressed the absurdity of the draft based player retirements.

I think you misunderstood what they meant about the retirements being determined at the draft. It's not "hard-wired" per say, but once you save your season/franchise and that decision (retirement, CPU trade, etc.) has been made but not finalized, there is (almost) nothing you can do about it. Even changing him to all 99 across the board, after the fact.

Only way you can reverse it (if you absolutely have to have that player) is to load up a save from a week or so prior, if you have one, and play back thru. Most likely, the outcome will differ, like when you said sometimes guys would retire due to health, and other times they wouldn't. The case with your pitcher was a random case of "I'm going to retire", and you saved your progress... do you happen to read all your notifications? Was there a message in there about him considering retirement?

[BoSoxPujols]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

I think you misunderstood what they meant about the retirements being determined at the draft. It's not "hard-wired" per say, but once you save your season/franchise and that decision (retirement, CPU trade, etc.) has been made but not finalized, there is (almost) nothing you can do about it. Even changing him to all 99 across the board, after the fact.

I'd call that pretty hard wired.

What happens for well over half the season doesn't matter in terms of players retiring...

... do you happen to read all your notifications? Was there a message in there about him considering retirement?

Yes to 1.

No to 2.

His morale bar was full. Nothing about retiring at all. He's 22.

He is in the first year of a 3yr contract. Free agency wouldn't even apply to him.

[Knight165]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

Okay....

First...you took my "deal with it" seriously.
I used a smiley.
It was more of a "haha....deal with it!..)....not a "FU deal with it".

Now...I see you already said he was in the first year of a 3 year deal...so you actually preempted my question of why a 22 y.o. player was available for free agency. He wasn't...you just got one of the "CPU select this" reason for retirement other than age or injury....the "poor F.A. market"....WHICH...I know it's going to sound like defending....but if that's the case it's even more akin to Desme than I originally meant it to be.....if his reason was..."personal reasons"....than I guess we'd have to accept it?

However, I do agree that retirement can use a lot of work. I don't like it in it's current state....and I've asked SCEA to look at it in a list of things that I compiled for them from the guys on this web site.
It's a LOOOOOOONG list...and I'll be re-submitting it to them just as a reminder.

M.K.
Knight165

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

Not sure how you can even ask this seeing as I addressed the absurdity of the draft based player retirements.

It is absurd, but that's the explanation as to why certain players retire. If you wanted a more specific answer, the game can't load up on a certain number of A and B potential players. Too many good players = too many expensive contracts = more great players being stuck in free agency because teams can't afford them. It tries to get rid of a few A's and B's and most of them fall in the "36+ retire because of age category", but sometimes it'll take a younger player out of the game (i.e. because of injury which is a better excuse, as they tend to be the ones with major injuries.) Perhaps the descriptions could be better because there's only Age, Ability, Injury, and Poor FA Market. It could be expanded upon by including Personal Reasons (Desme, Sean Burroughs, Khalil Greene) and Lack of Interest (players who lose interest in the game like Eric Byrnes).

Really?

"Deal with it" implies it can be improved upon?

Odd.

I never said "Deal with it" and there are more people aware of this than just Knight.

Yeah I know. Which I why I directly pointed out that an F potential 26 year old pitcher who is a FA didn't retire. Yet the 22 B potential player who saw major league action did. The logic the CPU uses to determine what players retire make no sense. If anything it should be purging lower level players rather than the good ones.

It is something worth pointing out, since it RARELY happens like you said. Also, one thing to point out is that there are some career minor leaguers who'd be F's that continue to play close to their 30's to achieve retirement benefits or whatever after a certain number of years in professional ball. Most retire sooner but there are a few like Josh Kroeger who have been around since 2000 or so.

Who from SCEA said that?

The recent patch they worked on, although a bit vague had something to the effect of making older players retire at a later age, and lower overall players retire sooner.

It still amazes me that we don't have fully playable A ball in the game.

Maybe it's a matter of memory, but I'd hope they'd expand the levels with non-playable A-ball teams (R, A, and A+) than having one dedicated playable A level. If possible go for it. I'm sure that'd be a nightmare for the roster makers, but they dealt with an additional 450 players last year, what's another 1800+ (I would like to see that too).

[BoSoxPujols]

Re: Why are certain player retirements hardwired into the game?

Now...I see you already said he was in the first year of a 3 year deal...so you actually preempted my question of why a 22 y.o. player was available for free agency. He wasn't...you just got one of the "CPU select this" reason for retirement other than age or injury....the "poor F.A. market"....WHICH...I know it's going to sound like defending....but if that's the case it's even more akin to Desme than I originally meant it to be.....if his reason was..."personal reasons"....than I guess we'd have to accept it?

Look I'm all for "suspensions of an alternate universe" when dealing with this stuff. However I'm not going to excuse bad retirement logic/ coding to allow good players to retire and give SCEA a pass. Using an incredibly rare exception to the rule in Desme to excuse a common occurance/issue in the game doesn't make any sense.