Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

[Redcapedwonder]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Excuse me as I clean the bull**** dripping off this post and onto my key board. This is the biggest crock I've ever read. This is the BIG announcement? Online Communities?! This is the most ******** update in Madden since they came out with those player speciality categories that lasted a year. How can you not change Online Franchise AT ALL?! NCAA has had a FLAWLESS ONLINE DYNASTY for FOUR YEARS NOW. The reason nobody plays Online Franchise in Madden is the same reason nobody played Online Team Play - BECAUSE IT SUCKS!!!!!!! How can you put a unfinished product our there, keep it out there for three years, AND NOT CHANGE IT?! It's an EMBARRASSMENT that a professional company can do such a thing. I've never been so frustrated. The Online Team Play mode was a joke last year too. The games weren't ranked, there were no clubs, and the matchmaking was atrocious! You had to find a team in a chat room then invite everybody to play and hope it all came together! C'mon! That's horrible! EA should fire the entire Madden staff and pay the NCAA guys double time to work on it.

I love the NFL, but I play NCAA because the Online Dynasty is the best game mode in any sporting game. I've been waiting for a good Online Franchise for years, and every year - ugatz. But you know what's worse that EA doing this year after year? Us going out there and buying it. Im 25 years old. I've been playing Madden since I was in grade school. I've constantly attended midnight releases. This year I AM NOT DOING IT! I'm done! I'll play NCCA all year long. Can you remember the last time there was a general overall positive vibe prior to the Madden release, because I can't. Make a stand, hold strong, and don't buy it.

Attention Mods - I know my post was a little harsh, but it had to be said. I apologize if i've offended anybody other than the EA Sports Madden Development team.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Can you remember the last time there was a general overall positive vibe prior to the Madden release, because I can't.

Yes... pretty much every single year people look forward to Madden, hence the midnight releases that you yourself mentioned...

[jerryrice4949]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

What would you like me to call Anthony on here? He's not the one that made the sole decision to not update Franchise mode. My analysis after is not really hard hitting or really combative in nature in this case either. They know they are/will take heat for not updating Franchise mode.

And this isn't me being defensive here either, by all means tell me what you think you would want to see more out of with certain interviews?

Since you asked. I would like someone to challenge EA next time they mention "the numbers" when it comes to online franchise. Well of course the numbers suck it was a completely unfinished feature/mode. It is not bare bones it is completely incomplete; what does EA expect the numbers to look like. That would be like NCAA calling something online dynasty without recruiting. I would like someone to ask them if they think the low utilization to what they call online Franchise is because it is really not a franchise mode at all!

I think the designer from EA missed the whole point of online franchise. It is more than a couple of friends getting together. It is about getting together with people you know and or like and building a team year after year. It is about a whole new level of immersion. It is the whole point of a franchise mode whether online or offline.

Every time I hear about the numbers I want to scream. Make an actual online franchise and then lets see what the numbers are.

[DaSmerg]

It's sometimes pretty frustrating when you see these truncated interview pieces with the Madden dev's because it is times like this, about topics that us gamers are passionate about like Franchise mode and it's most natural progression in the late 20th century, Online Franchise mode, that leave that bitter taste of WTH did he/she say?

With all due respect to @TNT713, while an eloquent response, it really doesn't hold water. To purely base your business development model on simple empirical analysis is basing a serious development decision on half the truth and is a 20th century way of doing things. We're more than a decade into the 21st century. I say this as a business owner with a decade of sales & marketing experience prior to that. You can make the pure statistical data say or justify what you want it to say or justify, I've seen it happen several times.

I don't totally disagree with your point though @TNT713 , quick head-to-head online match-up play either ranked or unranked will most likely continue to dominate the realm of Madden online game playing. I don't think anyone could argue that point nor would criticize development time on that are of game play.

But a "community" feature built into the game? C'mon man, that's code for the internet and they're trying to capitalize on the internet ++ Madden. There are already Madden communities out there, big and small. Props to OS but I'd rather dev time spent somewhere else than putting their like in the game in some halfheartedly way.

Online Franchise game play and how successful it could or could not be or how many people could, would, should be playing is a chicken and the egg scenario. As a long, long time Madden player (been here since Madden 1) to me looking in, there has not been a serious development focus on online franchise game play since the feature was introduced back in the PS2 days. In more ways than one, Online Franchise play is less robust and less feature filled than it used to be. That's the truth.

A last truth at the end of a waaaay too long post (yeah, a bit passionate about Madden and O.F.) is that until there is a serious commitment to develop a truly robust and functioning Online Franchise mode, that's at the very least equal to it's Offline sibling, all of us and Tib/EAS have absolutely no idea how many people could play, would find it engaging or should impact overall sales. And if it's robust enough, scheduling conflicts because I have to nab my wife at the airport in a 3 man or 32 man Online Franchise I don't think would crack the top 25 of complaints.

[Ryn Vintage1986]

Here's some food for thought: I wonder how many communities will outnumber a 30-man friend list or so. I'd be willing to guess somewhere in the realm of 2-5%.

People where underwhelmed when they knew the allegedly groundbreaking announcement was going to be communities weeks before it became official, and that hasn't changed even after a generous coat of lipstick was slapped on Tiburon's online prize pig.

I'll get Madden for what seems to be commendable work that's been done on presentation and offline franchise -- granted it's not all simply trailer smoke and mirrors, the traditional preamble for the infamous EA broken promise -- but I'll see you guys online in August 2012... Hopefully.

[bears5122]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Thanks for looking into this ChaseB and getting an answer on it.

[Icarus2k9]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

What would you like me to call Anthony on here? He's not the one that made the sole decision to not update Franchise mode. My analysis after is not really hard hitting or really combative in nature in this case either. They know they are/will take heat for not updating Franchise mode.

And this isn't me being defensive here either, by all means tell me what you think you would want to see more out of with certain interviews?

Sorry sir, reread your stuff after getting a good night's sleep. You're right, there's not much to really go after them for in this case, my apologies. Just for my own information though, do you get to have a proper dialogue when you're interviewing? Follow up questions and things like that? Or is it all submitted questions via email or another medium?

I think the only question I'd have followed up with here (and I think it's one of the most important questions at the moment because it dictates all their decisions by the looks of things) is for EA to give us the actual numbers of users for these modes and a proper breakdown - how many quit after one game, etc. I'm fed up of being told blanket statements like "everyone plays online ranked" (no they don't) when I want to see the numbers and judge for myself whether their belief that something isn't worth it is justified.

[labguy]

EA only shares numbers when it benefits them. Ian was quick to release numbers on how many people used the feature that picks your play for you. Of course he released that info after a few weeks and only said how many people had used it at least one time. Funny I never heard a follow up on how many used it repeatedly. I personally tried it one time and quickly saw how flawed it was. I am sure I was counted as one of those high percentage of people who were "using" the new system those first few weeks though.

EA is not going to release the numbers on online franchise use because it would just create a further backlash for them.

I do know there are a lot of people who do use it though. Look at the numbers of people registering on the League Manager site. Also there are A LOT of people not using it because it is incomplete. So what if the segment of these two groups only made up 20% of Madden players? That is still 1/5 of your consumers who you have screwed over for not one but TWO development cycles!

What other company would ignore 1/5 of their consumers for two years?

[TNT713]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Does anyone else see the same cycle of logic that I'm seeing?

EA says people aren't playing Online Franchise as their reason it wasn't updated. Upset consumers are saying they aren't playing because the mode isn't updated. Someone stated they may delay their purchase until December to get Madden for a lower price.

The problem with this logic is, not buying Madden keeps Online Franchise metric numbers low and starting to play in December to get a bargain may be well after the creative decisions get made. Meanwhile, guys like myself that get the game at midnight on release day can give meaningful feedback about what we'd like changed immediately through our feedback and gaming habits.

I'm curious to know how many of the people who are complaining about what isn't updated in Madden 12 didn't pay $60 for new copies of Madden 10 & 11. The way I see it, EA improved the online landscape and game play enough for several things to happen:

1) Gameplay: Longtime PS2 holdouts may finally move to PS3/360 because the coverage shading they have been using since Madden '05 has finally made it to NG.

2) Gameplay: Longtime critics of suction will play Madden more now that tackles occur on contact.

3) Franchise: Although they don't make this mode for me, I remember the list of improvements being substantial. Franchise players who make up a large part of the community will be pleased for a few months.

4) Online Communities: People have been craving something like Communities for years. Slider folks will be happy. SIM folks will be happy. Cut-throat players will be happy.

These are things that people who PLAY MADDEN have asked been asking for. It's reasonable that the improvements to other modes may cause the metrics for Online Franchise to dip even lower. With many of the 'fans' refusing to play based on principle and the rest of us not caring at all, the effect is the decision NOT to update the mode.

A better course of action would be to address the real issue that plagues online franchises and leagues alike - NOT ENOUGH GOOD OWNERS and COMMISSIONERS.

If you like the idea of Online Franchise and want to improve it, don't just complain, boycott, rile, and rally. Instead PLAY IT - OFTEN. Add to the fabric of the small Online Franchise community. Get Madden 12 at midnight and play Online Franchise all year long. Make some new friends and mirror the dignity you expect from others.

Obviously, fans of Online Franchise who play religiously in spite of the shortcomings need help getting the numbers up.

Later

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Does anyone else see the same cycle of logic that I'm seeing?

EA says people aren't playing Online Franchise as their reason it wasn't updated. Upset consumers are saying they aren't playing because the mode isn't updated. Someone stated they may delay their purchase until December to get Madden for a lower price.

The problem with this logic is, not buying Madden keeps Online Franchise metric numbers low and starting to play in December to get a bargain may be well after the creative decisions get made. Meanwhile, guys like myself that get the game at midnight on release day can give meaningful feedback about what we'd like changed immediately through our feedback and gaming habits.

I'm curious to know how many of the people who are complaining about what isn't updated in Madden 12 didn't pay $60 for new copies of Madden 10 & 11. The way I see it, EA improved the online landscape and game play enough for several things to happen:

1) Gameplay: Longtime PS2 holdouts may finally move to PS3/360 because the coverage shading they have been using since Madden '05 has finally made it to NG.

2) Gameplay: Longtime critics of suction will play Madden more now that tackles occur on contact.

3) Franchise: Although they don't make this mode for me, I remember the list of improvements being substantial. Franchise players who make up a large part of the community will be pleased for a few months.

4) Online Communities: People have been craving something like Communities for years. Slider folks will be happy. SIM folks will be happy. Cut-throat players will be happy.

These are things that people who PLAY MADDEN have asked been asking for. It's reasonable that the improvements to other modes may cause the metrics for Online Franchise to dip even lower. With many of the 'fans' refusing to play based on principle and the rest of us not caring at all, the effect is the decision NOT to update the mode.

A better course of action would be to address the real issue that plagues online franchises and leagues alike - NOT ENOUGH GOOD OWNERS and COMMISSIONERS.

If you like the idea of Online Franchise and want to improve it, don't just complain, boycott, rile, and rally. Instead PLAY IT - OFTEN. Add to the fabric of the small Online Franchise community. Get Madden 12 at midnight and play Online Franchise all year long. Make some new friends and mirror the dignity you expect from others.

Obviously, fans of Online Franchise who play religiously in spite of the shortcomings need help getting the numbers up.

Later

No, asking gamers to play a crap mode is ridiculous. EA can see the numbers in NCAA 12. They know the percentage of users playing a complete online mode and can guess what increases they would get with an improved online franchise in madden.

The only change in gaming habits that concerns EA is when people change from Madden to sone other game like NBA2k or COD. The less people buy Madden, the more they will put into the game to try to get your attention.

[DaveDQ]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

This is all so silly. You don't have answer with all these words. The bottom line is the online franchise mode did not generate as much interest as anticipated so it was neglected for something they brainstormed and hope (as they did with OF) will attract interest.

And when it does attract interest, EA will find ways to charge for specific features. Want an additional 1000 members in your community? That'll be 4.99 for our Madden Communities Pro Pak. This is EA's MO.

[jerryrice4949]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Does anyone else see the same cycle of logic that I'm seeing?

EA says people aren't playing Online Franchise as their reason it wasn't updated. Upset consumers are saying they aren't playing because the mode isn't updated. Someone stated they may delay their purchase until December to get Madden for a lower price.

The problem with this logic is, not buying Madden keeps Online Franchise metric numbers low and starting to play in December to get a bargain may be well after the creative decisions get made. Meanwhile, guys like myself that get the game at midnight on release day can give meaningful feedback about what we'd like changed immediately through our feedback and gaming habits.

I'm curious to know how many of the people who are complaining about what isn't updated in Madden 12 didn't pay $60 for new copies of Madden 10 & 11. The way I see it, EA improved the online landscape and game play enough for several things to happen:

1) Gameplay: Longtime PS2 holdouts may finally move to PS3/360 because the coverage shading they have been using since Madden '05 has finally made it to NG.

2) Gameplay: Longtime critics of suction will play Madden more now that tackles occur on contact.

3) Franchise: Although they don't make this mode for me, I remember the list of improvements being substantial. Franchise players who make up a large part of the community will be pleased for a few months.

4) Online Communities: People have been craving something like Communities for years. Slider folks will be happy. SIM folks will be happy. Cut-throat players will be happy.

These are things that people who PLAY MADDEN have asked been asking for. It's reasonable that the improvements to other modes may cause the metrics for Online Franchise to dip even lower. With many of the 'fans' refusing to play based on principle and the rest of us not caring at all, the effect is the decision NOT to update the mode.

A better course of action would be to address the real issue that plagues online franchises and leagues alike - NOT ENOUGH GOOD OWNERS and COMMISSIONERS.

If you like the idea of Online Franchise and want to improve it, don't just complain, boycott, rile, and rally. Instead PLAY IT - OFTEN. Add to the fabric of the small Online Franchise community. Get Madden 12 at midnight and play Online Franchise all year long. Make some new friends and mirror the dignity you expect from others.

Obviously, fans of Online Franchise who play religiously in spite of the shortcomings need help getting the numbers up.

Later

Congratulations on being ridiculous. It is true I have not bought madden in several years after buying it every year since its inception.

But the idea I should buy a game I think is sorely lacking in hopes that they will improve online franchise is silly. I can't play what EA refers to online franchise because I find online leagues boring and that really is what their "online franchise" is. It is a multi season league nothing more. I enjoy the part will you build a franchise through the draft and free agency, etc...

[vert56]

Does anyone else see the same cycle of logic that I'm seeing?

EA says people aren't playing Online Franchise as their reason it wasn't updated. Upset consumers are saying they aren't playing because the mode isn't updated. Someone stated they may delay their purchase until December to get Madden for a lower price.

The problem with this logic is, not buying Madden keeps Online Franchise metric numbers low and starting to play in December to get a bargain may be well after the creative decisions get made. Meanwhile, guys like myself that get the game at midnight on release day can give meaningful feedback about what we'd like changed immediately through our feedback and gaming habits.

I'm curious to know how many of the people who are complaining about what isn't updated in Madden 12 didn't pay $60 for new copies of Madden 10 & 11. The way I see it, EA improved the online landscape and game play enough for several things to happen:

1) Gameplay: Longtime PS2 holdouts may finally move to PS3/360 because the coverage shading they have been using since Madden '05 has finally made it to NG.

2) Gameplay: Longtime critics of suction will play Madden more now that tackles occur on contact.

3) Franchise: Although they don't make this mode for me, I remember the list of improvements being substantial. Franchise players who make up a large part of the community will be pleased for a few months.

4) Online Communities: People have been craving something like Communities for years. Slider folks will be happy. SIM folks will be happy. Cut-throat players will be happy.

These are things that people who PLAY MADDEN have asked been asking for. It's reasonable that the improvements to other modes may cause the metrics for Online Franchise to dip even lower. With many of the 'fans' refusing to play based on principle and the rest of us not caring at all, the effect is the decision NOT to update the mode.

A better course of action would be to address the real issue that plagues online franchises and leagues alike - NOT ENOUGH GOOD OWNERS and COMMISSIONERS.

If you like the idea of Online Franchise and want to improve it, don't just complain, boycott, rile, and rally. Instead PLAY IT - OFTEN. Add to the fabric of the small Online Franchise community. Get Madden 12 at midnight and play Online Franchise all year long. Make some new friends and mirror the dignity you expect from others.

Obviously, fans of Online Franchise who play religiously in spite of the shortcomings need help getting the numbers up.

Later

So people should go pay $60, play a mode that they do not enjoy over and over again because it is their "duty" and "obligation" as responsible consumers??????

wow! they've got you by the short-hairs my friend.

good luck in life......

[vert56]

This is all so silly. You don't have answer with all these words. The bottom line is the online franchise mode did not generate as much interest as anticipated so it was neglected for something they brainstormed and hope (as they did with OF) will attract interest.

And when it does attract interest, EA will find ways to charge for specific features. Want an additional 1000 members in your community? That'll be 4.99 for our Madden Communities Pro Pak. This is EA's MO.

you're simply not getting it.

allow me to clarify:

1)the mode does not exist

2)therefore, saying that they neglected the mode (that, as previously stated, does not actually exist) based on the low number of people playing is completely invalid and an insult to the intelligence of consumers

key question: how can you claim to come to a decision on an issue based on numbers that are completely irrelevant to that issue?

I think we AS THE CONSUMERS need to change our approach.

From now on we should stop saying "please update online franchise!"
and start saying "please put online franchise in the game for real and stop feeding us crap cause it tastes really bad and confuses our friends."

[RogueHominid]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

What would you like me to call Anthony on here? He's not the one that made the sole decision to not update Franchise mode. My analysis after is not really hard hitting or really combative in nature in this case either. They know they are/will take heat for not updating Franchise mode.

And this isn't me being defensive here either, by all means tell me what you think you would want to see more out of with certain interviews?

I'd personally like to see OS interviewers press the EA folks on some of the shaky arguments like the one quoted in the third and final paragraph of the interview posted at the head of this thread.

The statement that Communities meets the basic needs of OF players without the hassle certainly deserves some followup questions for clarification, as well as a counterpoint that there are lots of other things folks want from the OF that Communities can't provide (like GM stuff).

The statement that OTP received more interest last year than OF strikes me as deserving some followup questions about the hard numbers there and how they were generated.

Since you represent a community that includes a fair number of OF enthusiasts, you might also have questioned the choice to do Communities over OF. Your particular hardcore sim community cares about the OF feature, so why not let the interviewee feel that a bit?

It's fair to note that this guy can't be the only one on the hook for the decisions made in the last cycle, but he is in the chair representing the company and the studio that's giving us this product.

If you did press some of these issues and I'm just not able to find the full blog where you do that, then disregard this.