Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

[DaveDQ]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

you're simply not getting it.

allow me to clarify:

1)the mode does not exist

2)therefore, saying that they neglected the mode (that, as previously stated, does not actually exist) based on the low number of people playing is completely invalid and an insult to the intelligence of consumers

key question: how can you claim to come to a decision on an issue based on numbers that are completely irrelevant to that issue?

I think we AS THE CONSUMERS need to change our approach.

From now on we should stop saying "please update online franchise!"
and start saying "please put online franchise in the game for real and stop feeding us crap cause it tastes really bad and confuses our friends."

Are you saying Online Franchise was so poorly done that you don't even consider it in the game? Not sure what you are saying there. It was implemented with some effeciency and appeal in M10, but they left it there like almost every other peripheral to gameplay this generation.

A comparison would be the Weapons system. I thought it was a waste, and while I don't think OF is a waste, they treated it the same way. They took it and hid it in the menus now it's all but gone.

[TNT713]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

First, lets establish that the comments I have posted previously in this post are NOT going to be popular with the mainstream OS Franchise fans. Some may hold my personal preference toward online ranked games against me, but I'm in no way attempting to be the villain or to subvert Online Franchise in any way...

BUT[queue Danger Music]

Far too often, we think of Madden as fans who are incapable of releasing our attachments to look at the decisions of company that makes the Madden product in a logical manner. Speaking for myself, Online fans get upset when Offline franchise gets developer attention. Not because Offline Franchise doesn't need attention (it probably could improve), but because my favorite mode didn't benefit from the man hours that Offline Franchise benefited from.

We tend to forget, overlook, or not consider the fact that EA is a business entity with the same exact concerns of any other business entity. Every year, they must decide how to leverage their resources with limited budgets and resources to satisfy both consumers and stockholders. By and large, EA's most vocal critics seem to overlook the challenges that EA must overcome to deliver a game that 5 million people with diverse interests will enjoy.

To illustrate the business challenge, I'd like to offer yet another hypothetical scenario to illustrate the need of fans of the mode (or the promise of the mode) to play it frequently despite it's shortcomings:

Given 4 brick and mortar stores on a given corner competing for the same audience. Each of these stores is named for a specific Madden mode.

Offline Franchise
Online Play
Offline Play Now
Online Franchise (also includes Virtual Trainer and Superstar)

97% of the shoppers go to Offline Play Now, Offline Franchise, and Online Play. The remaining 3% visit the Online Franchise store...

It stands to reason that the stores getting the 97% of the shoppers are likely to be cleaner, have more variety in the aisles, and will have the ability to provide better goods and services. It also stands to reason that the store that attracts 3% of the shoppers will struggle and eventually be replaced with another store. In the real world, it's easy to recognize the truth of business... Shops that don't draw customers disappear. Yet, seemingly intelligent people opt to ignore the obvious business aspects...

So simply put... The Online Franchise store is failing because the people who want to shop there are spending their dollars somewhere else instead. Whether it's because the store isn't clean, they don't carry the right brands, or the sign isn't pretty is irrelevant. The bottom line is that 3% of the shoppers aren't enough for the shop to survive on this corner.

The most common reply to this is that the NCAA Online Dynasty is popular... But NCAA 'shops' are on another corner miles away from the Madden corner. Only 10% of the people who shop in the NCAA corner also shop in the Madden corner (that includes the players that trade NCAA as soon as Madden releases). In other words, 90% of the people who shop on either corner shop only NCAA OR MADDEN - NEVER BOTH. Hence, suggesting that NCAA's online dynasty and Madden's Online Franchise appeal to the same people is less than accurate. The game's themselves don't appeal to the same people. So... By nature of comparing apples the apples, the NCAA Online Dynasty argument is and always has been irrelevant.

So, if we limit the discussion to the stores on the Madden corner, we'll see that for every Madden player that shops at the Online Franchise, approximately 33 shop at one of the other stores on the same corner. With those numbers, the store may be out of business soon unless they draw more shoppers.

That said, I've drawn some ire for suggesting that players who want Online Franchise to improve should actually play it regardless of it's shortcomings. Why? Because if you want a store to survive, you must shop there or it may disappear.

Remember, the people who shop at the Online Franchise, Online Play, and Offline Play Now stores all have issues with their chosen stores - but they shop there anyway, offer usable feedback, and their modes are improved.

The way I see it, guys who don't buy Madden because the Online Franchise hasn't been all they wanted are misusing their power and influence in the most counter-productive way. Not only are their vocal complaints diminishing the value of the mode to those who also want it improved, but it's a smack in the face to players who suck it up and play the mode because of where it could go...

What's EA to do? If they sink 20% of it's resources into the store with a mere 3% of its patrons and see 2% jump in patronage it will still be a business failure. If EA reflects the usage of the mode in it's allowment of resources, Online Franchise would only get 3% of the dev team which wouldn't be enough to create any improvements...

In all seriousness, OS contains the largest compliment of Madden Online Franchise fans anywhere. Dare I say of the 3% that play Online Franchise, I'd guess more than 50% of the ones that visit online websites are here... The concentration in this community seems to skew the argument here - but ONLY HERE. Nowhere else does this discussion merit more than one page of forum posts.

SO again... I implore fans of the mode to PLAY IT. If you're a fan of the idea, but haven't purchased Madden or find other reasons not to play Online Franchise, you are the reason the numbers are low AND why development is slow.

BLAME THYSELF.

Later

[jerryrice4949]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Are you saying Online Franchise was so poorly done that you don't even consider it in the game? Not sure what you are saying there. It was implemented with some effeciency and appeal in M10, but they left it there like almost every other peripheral to gameplay this generation.

A comparison would be the Weapons system. I thought it was a waste, and while I don't think OF is a waste, they treated it the same way. They took it and hid it in the menus now it's all but gone.

The answer is yes. There was no online franchise, EVER. To be considered a franchise mode there needs to be a yearly rookie draft, contracts, trades, salary cap etc... A franchise is where you constantly build and rebuild your team year to year.

What EA called an online Franchise was really a multi season league.

Would you consider NCAA football to have a online dynasty if recruiting was not included? Of course not, because recruiting is part of establishing a dynasty. Just like the rookie draft, contracts, trades, salary cap are part of a franchise mode.

[ChaseB]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Since you asked. I would like someone to challenge EA next time they mention "the numbers" when it comes to online franchise. Well of course the numbers suck it was a completely unfinished feature/mode. It is not bare bones it is completely incomplete; what does EA expect the numbers to look like. That would be like NCAA calling something online dynasty without recruiting. I would like someone to ask them if they think the low utilization to what they call online Franchise is because it is really not a franchise mode at all!

I think the designer from EA missed the whole point of online franchise. It is more than a couple of friends getting together. It is about getting together with people you know and or like and building a team year after year. It is about a whole new level of immersion. It is the whole point of a franchise mode whether online or offline.

Every time I hear about the numbers I want to scream. Make an actual online franchise and then lets see what the numbers are.

Okay, fair enough question.

Sorry sir, reread your stuff after getting a good night's sleep. You're right, there's not much to really go after them for in this case, my apologies. Just for my own information though, do you get to have a proper dialogue when you're interviewing? Follow up questions and things like that? Or is it all submitted questions via email or another medium?

I think the only question I'd have followed up with here (and I think it's one of the most important questions at the moment because it dictates all their decisions by the looks of things) is for EA to give us the actual numbers of users for these modes and a proper breakdown - how many quit after one game, etc. I'm fed up of being told blanket statements like "everyone plays online ranked" (no they don't) when I want to see the numbers and judge for myself whether their belief that something isn't worth it is justified.

Some interviews are by text, but this one was my phone. So basically some allow follow-up questions and others do not -- yes, just depends on the medium.

Seems like a fair enough question. I know that generally speaking they don't want to or will give specifics on that type of stuff, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

But just to be clear, the interview was about Online Communities, so I just didn't want to use that as a platform to "jump" a developer about online franchise stuff. So I more tacked on a question at the end to at least get a word about it.

[DaveDQ]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

The answer is yes. There was no online franchise, EVER. To be considered a franchise mode there needs to be a yearly rookie draft, contracts, trades, salary cap etc... A franchise is where you constantly build and rebuild your team year to year.

What EA called an online Franchise was really a multi season league.

Would you consider NCAA football to have a online dynasty if recruiting was not included? Of course not, because recruiting is part of establishing a dynasty. Just like the rookie draft, contracts, trades, salary cap are part of a franchise mode.

Good point. I think that's where the bulk of my frustration is. Two things that year were platformed that I considered a green light to buy the game (Online franchise and Pro-Tak). Both of them haven't been touched. Now you can argue that the new tackling system is another step but Pro-Tak isn't spoken of anymore.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

The answer is yes. There was no online franchise, EVER. To be considered a franchise mode there needs to be a yearly rookie draft, contracts, trades, salary cap etc... A franchise is where you constantly build and rebuild your team year to year.

What EA called an online Franchise was really a multi season league.

Would you consider NCAA football to have a online dynasty if recruiting was not included? Of course not, because recruiting is part of establishing a dynasty. Just like the rookie draft, contracts, trades, salary cap are part of a franchise mode.

I'm pretty sure there wasn't a salary cap r legit free agency, but I know there was some sort of rookie draft.

[bigrice25]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

That said, I've drawn some ire for suggesting that players who want Online Franchise to improve should actually play it regardless of it's shortcomings. Why? Because if you want a store to survive, you must shop there or it may disappear.

Why would you shop at a store that you dont like? its a waste of your money as a consumer.

I think the point here is that Maddens Online Franchise mode is not a real Online Franchise mode, and that they are using excuses for neglecting to update it. EA is pretty much dragging us along, They got to keep some "new features" in their back pocket.

They know the feature would be used if implemented correctly, all they have to do is look at NCAA.

[CcAaRrSsOoNn3]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

So attempt to copy FIFA Clubs mode? But make it a cheap version of Online dynasty and NOT be able to play on the same team?!?!

Is Co-op still in the game?

[dkp23]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Lets not forget here, we are in year six in "Next-Gen" gaming. Remember the madden 06 teaser during the draft? Had nothing to do with the graphics or gameplay. Madden 06 comes out and it is stripped of everything and it sucked. Ok, it was the first madden for next gen, but 07,08,09,10,11, and now 12....

They've had six years to get the features of last-gen (cb shading, formation subs, building teams, etc) back into the game and finally we got cb shading. The same issues in last gen are still in the game now i.e terrible physics, fast crappy players dominate, suction (finallly gone?), WR warping, one man tackles (after locomotion is gone i think), and the ability to throw the ball to a receiver at anytime in the route and the wr will adjust. If I call a streak route, I shouldnt be able to throw the ball after the snap and expect my wr to adjust, he shouldnt be ready for the ball until he is down the field! No injured reserve, on and on and on and on and on and on....

Six Years! Remember 2k5 had online franchise and we didnt get online franchise until 2010? What do we have? Rewind?some lockeroom thing? madden cards? and now gameflow? Who the hell doesnt wnat to pick their play?

So we can talk about resources and leveraging those resources and utilizing those resources to important aspects in the game. Instead of improving gameplay, physics, franchise, online franchise, presentation....They waste resources on gimmicks year after year. This year it is communities, but it is just a glorified friendslist with stats...It is clear what it is being done, if they improve things that are already in the game, its not going to help the game sell more because there isnt a new feature...So lets waste time and add things nobody asked for and ignore things people have asked...

I keep reading about how online chise wasnt used enough to warrant an update. Lets be honest here, Im sure majority of people with online access joined a league...I want to know that number, how many of the users jioned the league at least once. Being that online chise has no features and there isnt much managing going on, yes, it can get stale. You can not expect users to continue to play online chise when it remains in beta stage for three years. Users shoudlnt be forced to use online franchise so that EA listens and finally improves it. users are asking for improvements and dont want to be forced to use it if it sucks...

[TNT713]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Why would you shop at a store that you dont like? its a waste of your money as a consumer.

I think the point here is that Maddens Online Franchise mode is not a real Online Franchise mode, and that they are using excuses for neglecting to update it. EA is pretty much dragging us along, They got to keep some "new features" in their back pocket.

They know the feature would be used if implemented correctly, all they have to do is look at NCAA.

Good point, but mine seems to be escaping everyone...

I am not at all concerned with why people don't play Online Franchise. What matters is that almost no-one does. The lowest THREE game modes account for a COMBINED 3% of the first 40 million games played. That's LOWER than the sales tax in most states. Furthermore, by many admissions, a lot of guys haven't purchased Madden in years. I don't see much logic in EA bending over backward for the consumer that isn't buying or playing the product.

That said... I believe online Communities will revolutionize the way the millions of people who actually buy and play Madden will enjoy the game. If it is done well, it will remove all of the major issues most people have with online play. I'm not sure what effect it's going to have on people that don't buy or play the game.

Til then, where are the guys playing the 3% who buy Madden and play Online Franchise.

How do they feel?

Later

[falconfansince81]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Good point, but mine seems to be escaping everyone...

I am not at all concerned with why people don't play Online Franchise. What matters is that almost no-one does. The lowest THREE game modes account for a COMBINED 3% of the first 40 million games played. That's LOWER than the sales tax in most states. Furthermore, by many admissions, a lot of guys haven't purchased Madden in years. I don't see much logic in EA bending over backward for the consumer that isn't buying or playing the product.

That said... I believe online Communities will revolutionize the way the millions of people who actually buy and play Madden will enjoy the game. If it is done well, it will remove all of the major issues most people have with online play. I'm not sure what effect it's going to have on people that don't buy or play the game.

Til then, where are the guys playing the 3% who buy Madden and play Online Franchise.

How do they feel?

Later

its not surprising your not concerned WHY people don't play it opposed to the fact many people do not. if they took out your precious offline franchise and upgraded play now ranked games i'm sure you'd be concerned. you seem to only apply 'logic' to what is conventient for yourself, not what mode is suffering from poor implementation and no improvements because it takes too much coding for one cycle. online communities was your gimmick, enjoy it.

if online communities were broken and featureless (only tabbed stats) people won't use that either, let alone if they remain unchanged for 3 years. a lot of guys like the online competition with sim players, but want to do more than just play meaningless lobby games for meaningless stats.

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Does anyone else see the same cycle of logic that I'm seeing?

EA says people aren't playing Online Franchise as their reason it wasn't updated. Upset consumers are saying they aren't playing because the mode isn't updated. Someone stated they may delay their purchase until December to get Madden for a lower price.

The problem with this logic is, not buying Madden keeps Online Franchise metric numbers low and starting to play in December to get a bargain may be well after the creative decisions get made. Meanwhile, guys like myself that get the game at midnight on release day can give meaningful feedback about what we'd like changed immediately through our feedback and gaming habits.

I'm curious to know how many of the people who are complaining about what isn't updated in Madden 12 didn't pay $60 for new copies of Madden 10 & 11. The way I see it, EA improved the online landscape and game play enough for several things to happen:

1) Gameplay: Longtime PS2 holdouts may finally move to PS3/360 because the coverage shading they have been using since Madden '05 has finally made it to NG.

2) Gameplay: Longtime critics of suction will play Madden more now that tackles occur on contact.

3) Franchise: Although they don't make this mode for me, I remember the list of improvements being substantial. Franchise players who make up a large part of the community will be pleased for a few months.

4) Online Communities: People have been craving something like Communities for years. Slider folks will be happy. SIM folks will be happy. Cut-throat players will be happy.

These are things that people who PLAY MADDEN have asked been asking for. It's reasonable that the improvements to other modes may cause the metrics for Online Franchise to dip even lower. With many of the 'fans' refusing to play based on principle and the rest of us not caring at all, the effect is the decision NOT to update the mode.

A better course of action would be to address the real issue that plagues online franchises and leagues alike - NOT ENOUGH GOOD OWNERS and COMMISSIONERS.

If you like the idea of Online Franchise and want to improve it, don't just complain, boycott, rile, and rally. Instead PLAY IT - OFTEN. Add to the fabric of the small Online Franchise community. Get Madden 12 at midnight and play Online Franchise all year long. Make some new friends and mirror the dignity you expect from others.

Obviously, fans of Online Franchise who play religiously in spite of the shortcomings need help getting the numbers up.

Later

Guys.... This post is 1,000,000% spot on! And it has nothing to do with me being a Game Changer. Excellent post and that is why LM was created...to get more people involved so the mode will be upgraded and we can focus on other things!!!

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

Guys.... This post is 1,000,000% spot on! And it has nothing to do with me being a Game Changer. Excellent post and that is why LM was created...to get more people involved so the mode will be upgraded and we can focus on other things!!!

I'm absolutely stunned at the thought process of folks at times. Stunned...

[mirrored32]

i dont' play online games because the servers are lame. like some of the features of NCAA football but i don't like waiting for servers to work.

madden. . . not even close.

I think the push to online is ok for those PVP's out there, but i am an offline multiplayer kind of guy. so much fun having a group over every week to play it out in the same room. just feels so, crappy to be playing online. I don't mind if they work on my online stuff, just please don't' forget about offline.

[CRMosier_LM]

Re: Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

I'm absolutely stunned at the thought process of folks at times. Stunned...

Just being honest man, the true is what it is... It's not a conspiracy. The most played game.modes always get work, on EVERY GAME.