Confidence needs to be revamped

[Vashyron.]

I've recently gotten back into The Show playing against the CPU, and confidence just dominates this game to ridiculous levels on the mound and at the plate. I just pitched a shutout a few games back, and I really wasn't locating well towards the end of the game. I was hanging sliders left and right, only to see them go for easy outs. All my pitches pretty much had full confidence as well, so I was just literally throwing over the heart of the zone because I know the CPU is just going to hit the ball for outs. Just because I pitched well in the PAST shouldn't dictate that I will pitch well in the present and future. Also, hitting against a CPU pitcher with full (or nearly full) confidence is just not fair, I'm getting solid to superb contact on most of my swings only to hit line shots right at someone or weak grounders or fly balls. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I can put a horrible swing on a pitch against a pitcher with low confidence and get some bloop hit half the time.

If a hitter in real life squares up a pitch, it doesn't matter if the pitcher is so confident that he's sweating confidence, the pitch is going to get hit hard. You regularly hit the ball weak on good swings in this game just because the pitcher has high confidence. In the game, it's obvious confidence directly affects the end result. Instead, confidence should indirectly affect the end result. For example, if a pitcher gains confidence in his slider (gets a feel for it), then make locating the pitch a bit easier and increase the break on the pitch a bit more. That would make the pitch harder to hit, but not in a cheap way where you are getting solid/superb contact but no hits because the confidence level says so. If you do square up the high confidence pitch (which will be harder to square up), then confidence plays absolutely no part in how the pitch is hit (that would just be all on the attributes).

Onto the hitting confidence. If a batter is hot, then you don't even have to put a good swing on the pitch, and you'll get a hit. Instead when a batter is hot, increase the PCI a bit and increase the attributes a bit. Much like pitchers, hitters get hits just because the confidence says so.

Anyone that plays this game regularly has to see these things. Hot hitters get "lucky" hits far more often than they should. A hot hitter in real life is getting hits because he's seeing the ball well and squaring up pitches, not putting bad swings on the ball and getting bloop hits. High confidence pitchers get away with bad pitchers for too often. And, when you are pitching with a pitcher with low confidence, even if you throw that perfect pitch, the CPU is going to crush and you know it. You have to get pitcher out of the game or hope a mound visit will replenish his confidence. To much of this game revolves around playing the "confidence" game instead of the actual game of baseball.

[Black59Razr]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

...and confidence just dominates this game to ridiculous levels on the mound and at the plate...

Where can we see hitter confidence?

[Vashyron.]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

Where can we see hitter confidence?

Hitters get hot and cold symbols when they are hot or cold, which shows on the before-the-game lineup screen and on the manage roster screens and such. Also, there is hitter confidence levels within each game. If you get a HR or a couple early hits, that player is hot for the rest of the game. If you're in a tight situation late in the game (tie game, runner at 2nd) and the batter at the plate has a couple hits already and say Albert Pujols is on deck and is 0-3, pitch around the current batter and pitch to Pujols as he will be a much easier out. Obviously, in real life, you wouldn't do that but it's a great strategy in this game. It doesn't matter if the 0-3 were 3 at'em balls either, the fact that he's 0-3 means he has low confidence and is rather unlikely to get a hit.

[Yankees2009Champs]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

Hitters get hot and cold symbols when they are hot or cold, which shows on the before-the-game lineup screen and on the manage roster screens and such. Also, there is hitter confidence levels within each game. If you get a HR or a couple early hits, that player is hot for the rest of the game. If you're in a tight situation late in the game (tie game, runner at 2nd) and the batter at the plate has a couple hits already and say Albert Pujols is on deck and is 0-3, pitch around the current batter and pitch to Pujols as he will be a much easier out. Obviously, in real life, you wouldn't do that but it's a great strategy in this game. It doesn't matter if the 0-3 were 3 at'em balls either, the fact that he's 0-3 means he has low confidence and is rather unlikely to get a hit.

Hot zones and cold zones influence as well. I don't really agree with your argument though. Here is what happened to me this weekend:

Red Sox vs. Yankees. I get killed by them in first two games pitching Colon and Sabathia. Colon I can see but C.C. is 14-5. He had all the confidence in the world and it couldn't save him. Next up was Freddie Garcia, 8-8 high E.R.A., and I was dreading the game. Garcia went on to only allow 3 hits, and I won 1-0. Now explain to me how in the world Garcia shut the unstoppable offense. (I couldn't believe it)

[Vashyron.]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

Hot zones and cold zones influence as well. I don't really agree with your argument though. Here is what happened to me this weekend:

Red Sox vs. Yankees. I get killed by them in first two games pitching Colon and Sabathia. Colon I can see but C.C. is 14-5. He had all the confidence in the world and it couldn't save him. Next up was Freddie Garcia, 8-8 high E.R.A., and I was dreading the game. Garcia went on to only allow 3 hits, and I won 1-0. Now explain to me how in the world Garcia shut the unstoppable offense. (I couldn't believe it)

I am talking more about the in-game confidence level. The confidence bar you see on the pitcher when you press select. I'm willing to bet most of the runs off C.C. came when he had low confidence levels. Pitchers receive a better starting confidence if they come into the game hot. If you don't pitch well, that confidence will start dropping. If a pitcher is cold, he starts with a lower confidence and his pitches usually start with a lower confidence as well, but if you can put together a good couple of innings, then he you should be good for the rest of the game. That pitcher hotness or coldness really only apparent at the start of the game.

[Yankees2009Champs]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

I am talking more about the in-game confidence level. The confidence bar you see on the pitcher when you press select. I'm willing to bet most of the runs off C.C. came when he had low confidence levels. Pitchers receive a better starting confidence if they come into the game hot. If you don't pitch well, that confidence will start dropping. If a pitcher is cold, he starts with a lower confidence and his pitches usually start with a lower confidence as well, but if you can put together a good couple of innings, then he you should be good for the rest of the game. That pitcher hotness or coldness really only apparent at the start of the game.

I know what you're talking about, C.C. came in hot. Over 3/4 full confidence, he was getting beat up. I had to use like 3 mound visits in 1st, 2nd, and 4th. Garcia came in shaky and dominated.

[thegut]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

I agree with you Vashyron. Pitcher confidence is pretty much the only problem I have with this game. I find it curious that the Show (which is so realistic it's amazing) includes a pitcher confidence meter which is basically a mojo meter. It really should only effect location and maybe add a little more break. In real life after a pitcher pitches a gem you always hear them say, "I was really hitting my spots" or "I just really had a handle on my curve". In Show I feel it would go like this, "I just started pitching down the middle because I was so confident".

[Vashyron.]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

I know what you're talking about, C.C. came in hot. Over 3/4 full confidence, he was getting beat up. I had to use like 3 mound visits in 1st, 2nd, and 4th. Garcia came in shaky and dominated.

I'm not saying it's literally impossible to hit a pitcher with high confidence, it's much too difficult. I would say once you get to the 85%-90% or higher confidence level, that's where it really gets bad. Also, C.C.'s confidence had to have been dipping if you had to do 3 mound visits as the only reason to do a mound visit is to up your pitcher's confidence if you're not buying some time for the pen.

Confidence is the main reason why lots of people think this game has comeback code because the relievers' confidence is so touchy. Literally, one hit can cause a reliever to get low confidence. If you don't pay close attention to your relievers' confidence, you're going to blow a lot of games in the late innings. You always have to have at least one guy up in the pen just in case and ready to come in at a moment's notice even if your lock-down closer is on the mound. Also, there's no reason to bring in your closer for the save if your 8th inning setup guy just dominated, keep him in for the 9th as his confidence is through the roof.

[Yankees2009Champs]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

I'm not saying it's literally impossible to hit a pitcher with high confidence, it's much too difficult. I would say once you get to the 85%-90% or higher confidence level, that's where it really gets bad. Also, C.C.'s confidence had to have been dipping if you had to do 3 mound visits as the only reason to do a mound visit is to up your pitcher's confidence if you're not buying some time for the pen.

Confidence is the main reason why lots of people think this game has comeback code because the relievers' confidence is so touchy. Literally, one hit can cause a reliever to get low confidence. If you don't pay close attention to your relievers' confidence, you're going to blow a lot of games in the late innings. You always have to have at least one guy up in the pen just in case and ready to come in at a moment's notice even if your lock-down closer is on the mound. Also, there's no reason to bring in your closer for the save if your 8th inning setup guy just dominated, keep him in for the 9th as his confidence is through the roof.

Yeah I've been told to keep confidence above 50%, that's reason for mound visits.

I'm struggling with what to say because you're somewhat right. It's really on the player to battle out of it though. I play on veteran, and use Psychobulk sliders. If a pitcher gets hot you just have to take pitches until it's in your favor. That's when you can get to them, 3-1, 3-0, 2-1 counts. We, as players, don't take enough pitches. Probably because we want to swing. I'm sure you know this, you sound like you know baseball.

I hate for a fact when a pitcher hangs a curve down the middle and I pop it up. Then I check hit chance in the batter analysis and it's an X. This is the part where I agree with you.

[Black59Razr]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

Hitters get hot and cold symbols when they are hot or cold, which shows on the before-the-game lineup screen and on the manage roster screens and such. Also, there is hitter confidence levels within each game. If you get a HR or a couple early hits, that player is hot for the rest of the game. If you're in a tight situation late in the game (tie game, runner at 2nd) and the batter at the plate has a couple hits already and say Albert Pujols is on deck and is 0-3, pitch around the current batter and pitch to Pujols as he will be a much easier out. Obviously, in real life, you wouldn't do that but it's a great strategy in this game. It doesn't matter if the 0-3 were 3 at'em balls either, the fact that he's 0-3 means he has low confidence and is rather unlikely to get a hit.

Do you have any evidence of hitter confidence in-game? I never knew that. I know about hot/cold hitters. But a hitter's ability increasing based on a previous at-bat? Where did you hear that?

Devs have posted here that pitcher's confidence only effects their control. If you are seeing a high confidence pitcher throwing meatballs down the middle for strikeouts, then it is coincidence. Either that, or the Devs are lying. Plus, I have never seen such a thing in any game I played.

As far as confidence being too influential in pitcher control, I disagree. Without that, A+ pitchers would pitch great every time and D pitchers would pitch poor every time. I love seeing a scrub shut me out for 8 innings while my ace gets rocked. This was all discussed in great detail by devs a while ago (I suck at searching; couldn't find thread).

[kjataa00]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

I think tweaked would be better. I have seen several times where I crush a ball, good spot in the zone, great timing, great hitter and it goes nowhere, is a weak fly out or just seems to go right to a fielder even though by looking at where the ball was and how I hit it, it should have gone to a different area.

My main issue though is that foul balls give the pitcher confidence. I think fouls should give no confidence after 2 strikes. If you get in a long duel with a pitcher in real life, he doesn't gain confidence after you fouled off 3,4,5,8 pitches. Instead, he tires out, gets frustrated and usually makes a bad pitch eventually. In the game though I have seen pitch confidence meters filled up simply because I fouled off several pitches in a row. Also, I think if you crush a ball foul it needs to drop confidence. I don't get how I could miss a 400ft HR by 2ft foul and the pitcher gains confidence.

Confidence having an effect on the actual hit is ok, as long as it is minimal because if a team is getting worked by a pitcher it can get in the hitter's head. It does piss me off though when I crush a pitch and it somehow turns into a pop up or I make a great pitch and Jed Lowrie somehow takes it 400ft.

I think I can say I've noticed hitter in game confidence at times as well. JP Arenciba hit 3 HRs off me once and it was only the first one that I screwed up a pitch and left it down the middle.

[pberardi]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

My main problem is once the confidence meter is high, it doesn't matter if you're facing an ace or 5th starter. They all pitch practically shutout ball.

Also, 3-2 counts are meaningless as the cpu refuses to give in on 3-2 with high confidence. I'm sure this reflects real life to some degree but there should be greater disparities bewteen 4th and 5th starters and aces.

[Yankees2009Champs]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

I love seeing a scrub shut me out for 8 innings while my ace gets rocked. This was all discussed in great detail by devs a while ago (I suck at searching; couldn't find thread).

I don't agree with this one bit. I have the Yankees great offense, and I almost got no hit by Doug Fister. I wasn't loving it at all. It's not rational at all. Especially when he came in with a 4-13 record with a six era.

This is another example that contradicts the pitcher confidence issue he's raised. If pitcher confidence was supreme he would have got blasted by me.

[Yankees2009Champs]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

My main problem is once the confidence meter is high, it doesn't matter if you're facing an ace or 5th starter. They all pitch practically shutout ball.

Also, 3-2 counts are meaningless as the cpu refuses to give in on 3-2 with high confidence. I'm sure this reflects real life to some degree but there should be greater disparities bewteen 4th and 5th starters and aces.

So take the walk! Pitch count matters, if you keep working you will get him out of the game. And consequently if he keeps throwing balls, his individual pitches will lower in confidence.

[murphyHOF]

Re: Confidence needs to be revamped

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Devs have posted here that pitcher's confidence only effects their control. If you are seeing a high confidence pitcher throwing meatballs down the middle for strikeouts, then it is coincidence. Either that, or the Devs are lying. Plus, I have never seen such a thing in any game I played.

Black59Razr, why are you trying to discredit this guys thread? The OP has obviously seen a pattern in his experience and just want to get it out here on the forum. Plus, I don't recall him ever saying you would get strikeouts throwing meatballs with high confidence, just outs.

Regardless of the what the devs may say, posters have commented on the fact that pitcher confidence appears to have an influence on the probability of getting a hit. My observation is that it impacts pitcher control, as it should, but pitcher confidence increases too quickly with a few outs or strikeouts and turns scrub pitchers into aces in a hurry. I think the point is the impact on pitcher attributes and/or play results needs to be toned down.