Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

[JohnDoh]

Ok, so like everyone else that plays NCAA and Madden, the announcement that suction blocks and the predetermined animations that follow being eliminated from NCAA and Madden 12 has been cause for gamer rejoice. Unfortunately during my first game with the Madden 12 demo, the suction block / predetermined animation sequence is still in the game. I was controlling GB's Clay Matthews and he shrugged off the right tackle and had a clear path to sack Jay Cutler late in the 4th qtr. Right before I was to lay a hit on Cutler, Forte who was on the opposite side of Cutler, initiated a cut block animation and it caused Matthews to trip over Forte while eventually morphing through Cutler's body. Talk about infuriating! It wasn't a key moment in the game or anything (beating Chicago 19-0) but if it had been I would have hurled the controller. I know this is a demo build and hopefully the final version has this eliminated... but I have my doubts. I polled the forums and didn't see any suction block threads so maybe this will be a seldom occurence which means it might not be on EA's radar. I have played NCAA and Madden for years and the frequency of suction blocking of old is definitely removed... but there still might be a few occurences like this one and it is going to piss some people off in key situations.

I captured the event on my Android phone and am in the process of trying to upload it to Youtube so I can post a link in this thread so everyone can see it. The video quality is quite fuzzy because my game room is in complete darkness using a bright projector (100" screen baby!) but you can clearly see what occurs. Here's to hoping EA will fix it!

Ok - here's the link to the video showing the suction block and canned animation sequence.

http://youtu.be/mAOIClvbpyg

[Giants4Natic]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

Ok, so like everyone else that plays NCAA and Madden, the announcement that suction blocks and the predetermined animations that follow being eliminated from NCAA and Madden 12 has been cause for gamer rejoice. Unfortunately during my first game with the Madden 12 demo, the suction block / predetermined animation sequence is still in the game. I was controlling GB's Clay Matthews and he shrugged off the right tackle and had a clear path to sack Jay Cutler late in the 4th qtr. Right before I was to lay a hit on Cutler, Forte who was on the opposite side of Cutler, initiated a cut block animation and it caused Matthews to trip over Forte while eventually morphing through Cutler's body. Talk about infuriating! It wasn't a key moment in the game or anything (beating Chicago 19-0) but if it had been I would have hurled the controller. I know this is a demo build and hopefully the final version has this eliminated... but I have my doubts. I polled the forums and didn't see any suction block threads so maybe this will be a seldom occurence which means it might not be on EA's radar. I have played NCAA and Madden for years and the frequency of suction blocking of old is definitely removed... but there still might be a few occurences like this one and it is going to piss some people off in key situations.

I captured the event on my Android phone and am in the process of trying to upload it to Youtube so I can post a link in this thread so everyone can see it. The video quality is quite fuzzy because my game room is in complete darkness using a bright projector (100" screen baby!) but you can clearly see what occurs. Here's to hoping EA will fix it!

I have not seen suction in NCAA or Madden Demo.

A cut block is not really suction blocking and I can tell you that if you play on anything higher then Pro, using the speed burst on defense or offense is going to provide a boost of awareness to the defender or blocker to at least try and engage you.

I think EA did a great job of removing suction from both games.

[JohnDoh]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

I have not seen suction in NCAA or Madden Demo.

A cut block is not really suction blocking and I can tell you that if you play on anything higher then Pro, using the speed burst on defense or offense is going to provide a boost of awareness to the defender or blocker to at least try and engage you.

I think EA did a great job of removing suction from both games.

Any blocker that alters the intended or controlled pathway of another player and causes a canned animation interaction with said blocker is a suction block. I hear what you are saying but until you see the video you really can't form an accurate assessment. I can assure you what happened is indeed a suction block and a canned animation results which then sends my guy morphing through the QB. My phone apparently needs wifi to upload the 30+MB file so I'll have to wait until this afternoon to link it for everyone's review.

[therizing02]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

Suction blocking has NOT been completely removed. It's light years better than it has been in the past but I've seen several instances where it's still there. Obviously I've seen more in NCAA than the Madden demo.

[SGMRock]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

I was controlling GB's Clay Matthews and he shrugged off the right tackle and had a clear path to sack Jay Cutler late in the 4th qtr. Right before I was to lay a hit on Cutler, Forte who was on the opposite side of Cutler, initiated a cut block animation and it caused Matthews to trip over Forte while eventually morphing through Cutler's body.

I've been playing RTG in NCAA 12 as MLB and when blitzing the QB this happens to me all the time. The RB/FB will be waiting to pick up the blitz but will be on the other side of the QB not even looking my way but he will all of a sudden super fast zoom across and dive on the ground in front of me cause me to flop down or something missing what looked to be a sure sack.

Another thing I see in NCAA 12 is that you don't get suction blocked like before but there are times when you are clearly going to run past a blocker and are say 3/4 of the way past him and if you graze him with your body as you go by the annimation for blocking will kick in and you will automatically turn sideways facing the blocker and have to move out of it again. So in this instance you didn't suction into him from a distance like it did before but just brushing him is enough contact from their new system to start a new block.

This is where a full physics engine will help whenever they get around to making one as my speed and size running past a lineman should keep him from doing that. He could probably push me off my line or something but not pull me into a block sideways. :P

I have not seen this second example in the Demo for Madden yet as I haven't been blitzing with LB's, I normally play the DE. So i'm not sure if M12 does the same here as NCAA12 but it definitely does for the fast cut blocking eyes in the back of their heads HB/FBs.

[JohnDoh]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

Updated thread with link to suction block... see original post above.

[simfballcritic]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

Slight suction or shifting still occurs when contact is made. I haven't really seen any issues where the player is blatantly shifting over to make a block. Not seeing it isn't there, I'm just saying I haven't come across it yet.

[Broncos86]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

I see what you're talking about, but that was really frustrating to watch. This is me nitpicking in general, but the video could've been 1/10th the length and just showed it. I really have trouble watching videos where people rewind/slow mo for two frames and don't show the actual evidence until the very end of the video. My brain SCREAMS in frustration!

it's a small issue, but this could also be a bug that gets squashed. The demo is an old build.

[belucheez]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

Hopefully this isn't a deal breaker for you because the chances of them taking that out is very likely.

[FinnZzgo]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

Ok, so like everyone else that plays NCAA and Madden, the announcement that suction blocks and the predetermined animations that follow being eliminated from NCAA and Madden 12 has been cause for gamer rejoice. Unfortunately during my first game with the Madden 12 demo, the suction block / predetermined animation sequence is still in the game. I was controlling GB's Clay Matthews and he shrugged off the right tackle and had a clear path to sack Jay Cutler late in the 4th qtr. Right before I was to lay a hit on Cutler, Forte who was on the opposite side of Cutler, initiated a cut block animation and it caused Matthews to trip over Forte while eventually morphing through Cutler's body. Talk about infuriating! It wasn't a key moment in the game or anything (beating Chicago 19-0) but if it had been I would have hurled the controller. I know this is a demo build and hopefully the final version has this eliminated... but I have my doubts. I polled the forums and didn't see any suction block threads so maybe this will be a seldom occurence which means it might not be on EA's radar. I have played NCAA and Madden for years and the frequency of suction blocking of old is definitely removed... but there still might be a few occurences like this one and it is going to piss some people off in key situations.

I captured the event on my Android phone and am in the process of trying to upload it to Youtube so I can post a link in this thread so everyone can see it. The video quality is quite fuzzy because my game room is in complete darkness using a bright projector (100" screen baby!) but you can clearly see what occurs. Here's to hoping EA will fix it!

Ok - here's the link to the video showing the suction block and canned animation sequence.
http://youtu.be/mAOIClvbpyg

This seems to happen alot more on the xbox 360 version along with alot of other stuff like force fields,ball animations,warping etc.. heres a vid showing this http://youtu.be/W97rNswrNZ8

[nyg92fan]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

I have not seen suction in NCAA or Madden Demo.

A cut block is not really suction blocking and I can tell you that if you play on anything higher then Pro, using the speed burst on defense or offense is going to provide a boost of awareness to the defender or blocker to at least try and engage you.

I think EA did a great job of removing suction from both games.

Wow that was bad.. I can see how someone would get agnry over that.. Madden seems to have improved on suction blocking somewhat, you can disengage better then previous maddens but it still has some lingering issues.

[guaps]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

The Madden 12 demo have many of the issues that bothered me in the past, they're just less frequent and less obvious. I've seen plenty of suction blocking (especially in the pass blocking), warping, force fields, weird collisions, poor AI etc. from 15 games of the demo to decide that M12 is not for me. The Madden 12 demo shows that the game is an upgrade over Madden 11, but it's not enough to convince me it's actually gonna worth buying. If I'm already fed up with gameplay issues in the demo after 24 hours, then the retail version won't even last a week.

[Broncos86]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

The Madden 12 demo have many of the issues that bothered me in the past, they're just less frequent and less obvious. I've seen plenty of suction blocking (especially in the pass blocking), warping, force fields, weird collisions, poor AI etc. from 15 games of the demo to decide that M12 is not for me. The Madden 12 demo shows that the game is an upgrade over Madden 11, but it's not enough to convince me it's actually gonna worth buying. If I'm already fed up with gameplay issues in the demo after 24 hours, then the retail version won't even last a week.

As Devil's Advocate, isn't that equal to saying a game isn't for you because the beta version is riddled with bugs?

[Only1LT]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

I, too, have seen..., maybe not suction per se, but definitely unrealistic behavior in terms of blitzing and blocking.

There were many times that I would be a blitzing backer and would contact the outermost edge of a blocker where the blocker could only get one arm on me, yet it would be sufficient enough to stop me cold and then bring me into a full on engagement animation. Or worse, I'm completely held at bay a sideways, outstretched pair of arms that are parallel to the LOS, while i am perpendicular to it and trying to run straight, yet I'm stonewalled. Not only is that suction-esque, it's holding lol.

Not suction of old, but definitely frustrating that there aren't ways to address riding defenders or pushing. Everything needs to be a full on engagement block for the most part, so that aspect of suction is still in the game. Just not the egregious 5yd morph of old. At least I haven't seen that yet.

What I am talking about though is more a collision detection issue I guess than tried and true sucking.

Still annoying.

[guaps]

Re: Suction Blocking in Madden 12 Demo

As Devil's Advocate, isn't that equal to saying a game isn't for you because the beta version is riddled with bugs?

I understand your point, but the problem isn't about small bugs for me. It's fundamental issues regarding how the game plays, how the AI works and how the players interact. And it's not just with Madden 12, but issues I also had with previous editions of Madden too. Issues, that are not just a matter of fixing bugs from the beta to retail versions, but changing core elements of the game engine.

I honestly don't believe I'll be getting Madden until they rip out and replace certain elements of the core game engine, or until they're able to create a new engine for the next generation of consoles that represents football more accurately. Until then I'm satisfied with playing FIFA, NHL and an occasional game of APF 2k8.