Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

[MMurda]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Caley Roark said what I have been saying for years "it really might be time for EA to blow the whole thing up and start from scratch". Madden has made numerous changes over the years, for better and worse, but it all these changes are just body work on a car thats been using the same old engine for years. The car (game) still works and the updates make it run and look a little better but its about time to start over with something new and fresh. What is holding EA back from doing this is because of what happened to NBA Elite. NBA Live 10 was a step in the right direction but with Elite 11 they try to create a whole new game and it back fired. I doubt EA is willing to risk jeopardizing their number 1 sports franchise of all time by create a new engine (something that could take a couple of years to produce a worthy and improved product).

the thing is tho, nba elite had competition and HAD to come correct, and they failed against nba 2k11. Madden doesnt have that same risk, because there is no competition. they cant not be #1...thanks to the situtation theyre blessed with (license). but theyll never do it until theyre forced to do it, which is when new systems come out. but even then, they may still be so lazy and just port over with prettier graphics, while the fifas and nhls of the future continue to blow past this stagnant game.

but lets be clear, theres nothing in their way of doing this, if they really wanted to. i know they have to put out a yearly title. now that they have new developers to help develop ahead of time on top of the regular devs, why cant they do this for m13? the answer is they dont want to have that kind of commitment to excellence, and its really sad considering this was their most popular title for many yrs. IMO, even if it aint the greatest if they did blow up and start over, would it really be any diff of an outcome to them putting out bug/glitch filled games with horrible gameplay on this outdated engine? honestly i think more ppl would applaud the effort and give them more slack for trying to advance the tech and the game.

[bichettehappens]

Did someone in this thread actually explain what makes this game "arcadey" in detail (I stopped reading when the 2K back and forth started) and if not can somebody do so? I'm curious why I'm seeing so many people up in arms over this game being supposedly arcade when I just don't see it

[209vaughn]

imo, ncaa is absolutely terrible. they have to resort to the biggest cheat tactics they can think of to give you a challenge. go try nba 2k11 to see how giving the user a challenge is supposed to be done.

I absolutely agree with this comment. NBA 2k11 actually plays smart basketball, and 90% of the time you lose, you dont feel like it's b/c the developers "coded in" some "it's time for you to lose code". NBA 2k11 and FIFA 11, player ratings actually mean something. In Madden and NCAA, ratings mean nothing. The out come of the game is based upon hidden randomized code structure forcing you to play great or bad.

I'm so over EA football games. (i'm a die hard ncaa fan too, i've played thousands of games the past decade of ncaa, i've maybe played 10 games so far of ncaa 12) NBA 2k12, FIFA 12 and Football Manager 11 for me this fall.

[Jamake1005]

Idk why all the hate over a demo build for madden 12. I havent bought madden game since they had the license and miss 2k football. But honestly the demo is great to me imo. I did play madden 10 and madden 11 and this is by far a great step forward imo. Still has its madden issues but I felt they were turned down quite a bit. Plus with sliders and patches I feel this game will be great. I have been a madden ***** for years and still believe 2k would have a much better product. But I can honestly say im really excited and this will be a day one buy for me! Honestly i feel some ppl are just hating to be hating on madden bc they hated it for so many years. Im sorry i believe that actually madden will be better than ncaa 12. I had to return that game after a month just way to glitchy and could pass for anything in ncaa 12. All I can say is i think madden is finally starting to put out a good game! This is coming from an avid 2k fan. Yes madden def still has it probs but its def looks to be a great game I am really enjoying the demo and will be playing til release day.

[RGiles36]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

It's not getting the 120-130 plays, it's getting realistic stats with that number of plays that I and football-freaks have struggled with. And on the console, I don't have football-freaks to help me out.

Yes, I get realistic stats. If you venture over to the sliders forums, I'm willing to be that the majority of those people get realistic stats as well. After all, that's the reason people go testing sliders in the first place.

The priority is to first get the amount of plays right -- which again is not all that difficult. Just depends on your clock settings. After that, it just comes down to your own skills and you have to adjust your sliders accordingly. The process is no different than any other sports game.

I think you're making it more complicated than what it has to be. My stats are generally on point and make sense, depending on the course of the game: for example sometimes I can run the ball effectively, sometimes I can't. Sometimes I create turnovers, sometimes I will not. Stats are not black and white. Gotta leave room for anomalies.

[atomant94]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

The Madden demo is ok, But We should of gotten this game 3 years ago.

The Madden Franchise is 3 years off

[209vaughn]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

I don't see super DBs in this. Certainly not to the level of NCAA

IMO one of the worst parts of EA football is that you dont really feel like you're totally in control of your QB. Touch passes and leading WR's is virtually impossible, b/c the WR's dont adjust to the ball in the air. WR's will never run "natural routes" like real life WRs. WR's in real life read the DB's and find soft spots in zones. In EA football, WR's are locked into a route and basically ignore what the coverage is doing. This is why there are always routes in EA football games that are impossible to use... Double move routes for example. WR's need to be a lot smarter IMO.

We also need to have a real sense of control over the QB... Maybe a slider (not the kind in the options menu, the kind that when you hit the button it goes off, then you let go to stop it) like in FIFA that will help with power and accuracy. I'm a veteran EA footballer, and I still dont feel in control of where i'm putting the ball.

[Digitalpimp]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

IMO one of the worst parts of EA football is that you dont really feel like you're totally in control of your QB. Touch passes and leading WR's is virtually impossible, b/c the WR's dont adjust to the ball in the air. WR's will never run "natural routes" like real life WRs. WR's in real life read the DB's and find soft spots in zones. In EA football, WR's are locked into a route and basically ignore what the coverage is doing. This is why there are always routes in EA football games that are impossible to use... Double move routes for example. WR's need to be a lot smarter IMO.

We also need to have a real sense of control over the QB... Maybe a slider (not the kind in the options menu, the kind that when you hit the button it goes off, then you let go to stop it) like in FIFA that will help with power and accuracy. I'm a veteran EA footballer, and I still dont feel in control of where i'm putting the ball.

Let me guess, you were using Cutler? Seems remarkably accurate to me.

[Playmakers]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Once you slow this game down on the field (Game Speed Slider) it's fantanstic. I don't expect people to fool around with settings in a DEMO but once you see the game on slow speed with tweaks then you'll see the potential of the full retail version

I think this game can be tweaked to play the best football game EA has released in 5-6 years

[scottyp180]

the thing is tho, nba elite had competition and HAD to come correct, and they failed against nba 2k11. Madden doesnt have that same risk, because there is no competition. they cant not be #1...thanks to the situtation theyre blessed with (license). but theyll never do it until theyre forced to do it, which is when new systems come out. but even then, they may still be so lazy and just port over with prettier graphics, while the fifas and nhls of the future continue to blow past this stagnant game.

but lets be clear, theres nothing in their way of doing this, if they really wanted to. i know they have to put out a yearly title. now that they have new developers to help develop ahead of time on top of the regular devs, why cant they do this for m13? the answer is they dont want to have that kind of commitment to excellence, and its really sad considering this was their most popular title for many yrs. IMO, even if it aint the greatest if they did blow up and start over, would it really be any diff of an outcome to them putting out bug/glitch filled games with horrible gameplay on this outdated engine? honestly i think more ppl would applaud the effort and give them more slack for trying to advance the tech and the game.

Madden doesn't lose the risk of not being number one but it definitely can lose die hard fans and sales. EA knows that year after year they are making money from madden regardless if they make significant changes or get good reviews. You're right their NBA series needed to make significant changes but in the process the franchise was crippled. Elite failed by its own standards not because of its competition. When the demo dropped for Elite 11 die hard Live fans couldn't understand how or why the game took a major leap back within a year. Graphics, controls, animations, and overall polish of the game was lack luster in comparison to Live 10 and as a result EA will go 2 years without releasing a sim basketball game.

Now say Febuary 2012 comes along and EA announces they are going to completely overhaul madden. I personally would be excited/interested but also concerned for the game knowing damn well you cant possibly rebuild a game in ONE year and expect a great product. If EA decided to not release Madden 13 in order to spend 2 years on Madden 14 then that would be great but I dont have faith in EA (or any sports company) rebuilding a franchise within one year. Again they wouldn't want to release a demo for Madden 13 and get the same responses that the Elite demo received.

You also gotta consider that while everyone here wants a sim football game EA is more focused on making money and appealing to ALL audiences not just the die hard football fans; which probably means making a game that is realistic but also easy to pick up and play and have fun. So their definition of the best football game is probably a lot different than many of our definitions. Based on the sales of their "bug/glitch filled games with horrible gameplay on this outdated engine" I think EA is perfectly fine with the formula they have. Im not siding with EA, nor do I think they put out a quality product each year I'm just looking at things from EAs perspective instead of a disappointed fan.

[bucky60]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Now say Febuary 2012 comes along and EA announces they are going to completely overhaul madden. I personally would be excited/interested but also concerned for the game knowing damn well you cant possibly rebuild a game in ONE year

They don't have to do it in one year, and they don't have to skip a year. It's called parallel development. They could have had a new game engine by now and not missed a year. The question would be cost/benefit. Could EA afford to have an extra development team to work on a new set of game engines.

[statum71]

I agree with Bob.

However....Caley hit the nail on the head in regards to halftime by saying "I've all but given up hope that we will ever see anything like NFL 2K5's presentation again."

[MMurda]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Madden doesn't lose the risk of not being number one but it definitely can lose die hard fans and sales. EA knows that year after year they are making money from madden regardless if they make significant changes or get good reviews.

Now say Febuary 2012 comes along and EA announces they are going to completely overhaul madden. I personally would be excited/interested but also concerned for the game knowing damn well you cant possibly rebuild a game in ONE year and expect a great product.

thats my point tho. they can still lose die hard fans sales either way...by putting out recycled madden with band aid fixes that half work(why im not buying and many others) or by completely screwing it up with a reboot that doesnt work the best the 1st yr. IMO, they could rebound from a bad title quicker(less than the 6yrs we're at now) with a base that has a new engine that respects the fundamentals of physics, realistic AI, and puts in the presentation they have now. so what do they really have to lose?

and the fact you stated that theyll make their money regardless, further makes my point that if they really wanted to make the change in madden they could with not much risk, as opposed to nba elite who had a competitor to bury them. dont think for a minute EA wouldnt have dropped that Elite on time had nba2k11 not been around. they wouldve dropped it with a day 1 patch and a bunch of promises just like they do currently with ncaa/madden.

They don't have to do it in one year, and they don't have to skip a year. It's called parallel development. They could have had a new game engine by now and not missed a year. The question would be cost/benefit. Could EA afford to have an extra development team to work on a new set of game engines.

exactly my point...now they actually do have that dual dev team going so it will be interesting to see if this is for hype or if we'll see more bug/glitch and polish work and innovations each yearly cycle starting with m13 like we see with fifa and nhl.

[JaySmooov]

I agree with Bob.

However....Caley hit the nail on the head in regards to halftime by saying "I've all but given up hope that we will ever see anything like NFL 2K5's presentation again."

That statement isn't even realistic. That was 2004, back when simple things like branching animations weren't even implemented.

[JaySmooov]

thats my point tho. they can still lose die hard fans sales either way...by putting out recycled madden with band aid fixes that half work(why im not buying and many others) or by completely screwing it up with a reboot that doesnt work the best the 1st yr. IMO, they could rebound from a bad title quicker(less than the 6yrs we're at now) with a base that has a new engine that respects the fundamentals of physics, realistic AI, and puts in the presentation they have now. so what do they really have to lose?

and the fact you stated that theyll make their money regardless, further makes my point that if they really wanted to make the change in madden they could with not much risk, as opposed to nba elite who had a competitor to bury them. dont think for a minute EA wouldnt have dropped that Elite on time had nba2k11 not been around. they wouldve dropped it with a day 1 patch and a bunch of promises just like they do currently with ncaa/madden.



exactly my point...now they actually do have that dual dev team going so it will be interesting to see if this is for hype or if we'll see more bug/glitch and polish work and innovations each yearly cycle starting with m13 like we see with fifa and nhl.

Elite wasn't dropped because 2K was better; the consensus thought was that 2K was going to be better regardless, especially since they had a new group of guys and they were starting over.

Elite got dropped because it was bad. Need you be reminded?

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