Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

[TombSong]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

I'm assuming you haven't seen improvement up to this stage.

I agreed with most of your post, but to say there is no improvement towards the past competitor games is not really realistic.

The camera areas itself make it like a TV broadcast presentation, which you admitted when you said EA has caught up.

The tackling is improved immensely and more towards the other games. No more huggy feely protak type tackles.

Does it have a ways to go? You bet it does, but this is the first time since Madden 10 I'm happy the direction in which the series is going.

Like you said, there are two different types of groups. Neither group is wrong and both groups want an NFL type football game.

In my opinion, the 2 groups aren't that far apart.

This is what I have seen as improvements to madden since 2006.

The have better presentation.
They have better run blocking.
They this year now have DE's that can get after the QB when the QB leaves the pocket.
Graphics have improved.
You say you like the tackling. Thats fine. Guess what though. In AP2k8 I can join in a gang tackle and influence it. You can't do that in Madden 2012. What you see now is a animation that plays out now when a cpu defender comes in and cleans up a tackle. (and a lot of the time the same animation plays out) If you run in on a tackle in progress you fall off or one of the players there before you falls off.

Thast not said to beat up Madden, thats said to point out, come on man, this needs to be beyond where we are now. Thats me. My POV. What, my POV dont matter because it goes against being a favorable POV towards Madden ? I can't NOT like maddens tackling ? I ain't telling you are wrong for liking it. If you can come in this forum and say you like it and why, I should be able to come in this forum and say I dont like it and why, without all the you have a agenda, you are a fan boy BS. Not saying you did that.

Thats it. 6 years and thats the sum of what we have.

[IntellectualAssassin]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Thats it. 6 years and thats the sum of what we have.

I'm really not trying to start a flame war, but I just honestly don't understand how people can justify the amount of improvement that's been made to this point. The game should be lightyears ahead of where it is now. I actually get a kick out of hearing people say "don't be a negative nancy, focus on the improvements that have been made!" It's pretty hard to focus on the improvements that have been made when the improvements that haven't been made are so much more obvious.

[bkrich83]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

In short, no where do I say Madden needs to play just like 2k5/2k8.
ap2k8/2k5 were not flawless games, I can say that. I also did not say it was flawless. Madden or 2k being flawless aint even the point of the post which is always lost on guys to busy wanting to defend madden instead of stare at the truth about the game.
No where do I imply anyone has to like 2k5/2k8.
What in my post is factually not true ?
Speak to that, not your anger to why someone has spoke a pov that you don't agree with about madden.

For all of you about to bring up a issue about the post that was not even brought up in the post...please speak to what I am saying in the post...whats not true in it ?

Where is his anger? You should be more hypersensitive.

[bkrich83]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

" It's pretty hard to focus on the improvements that have been made when the improvements that haven't been made are so much more obvious.

This is coming from someone who really hasn't like a version of Madden, since well at least Madden 05, but I disagree with this statement. Maybe because my outlook is different because of my age, but I simply don't focus on what hasn't been added or improved on with the game.

Although to be honest I just play the game, and if it's fun and I enjoy it, I keep playing, if it's not, I don't. I don't over-analyze ever aspect of the game.

Also, as much as I loved 2k5, and I actually had some input on that game, there is some definite revisionist history when it comes to it's greatness.

[roadman]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

This is what I have seen as improvements to madden since 2006.

The have better presentation.
They have better run blocking.
They this year now have DE's that can get after the QB when the QB leaves the pocket.
Graphics have improved.
You say you like the tackling. Thats fine. Guess what though. In AP2k8 I can join in a gang tackle and influence it. You can't do that in Madden 2012. What you see now is a animation that plays out now when a cpu defender comes in and cleans up a tackle. (and a lot of the time the same animation plays out) If you run in on a tackle in progress you fall off or one of the players there before you falls off.

Thast not said to beat up Madden, thats said to point out, come on man, this needs to be beyond where we are now. Thats me. My POV. What, my POV dont matter because it goes against being a favorable POV towards Madden ? I can't NOT like maddens tackling ? I ain't telling you are wrong for liking it. If you can come in this forum and say you like it and why, I should be able to come in this forum and say I dont like it and why, without all the you have a agenda, you are a fan boy BS. Not saying you did that.

Thats it. 6 years and thats the sum of what we have.

Whoa, there. Where's all the pent up anger coming from? Did you not read my post or just read what you wanted to.

I did say I agreed with most of your post and I did mention your not wrong and I'm not wrong for pointing out what I like.

I just don't know where you are coming from where you mention you can't like Madden's tackling system. Never once implied it or mentioned it.

Carry on, though.

[vols bravesfan]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Why can't people just drop 2K5? Yes, it played great we know. But that was a last gen game. Get over the love fest with 2K5.

[IntellectualAssassin]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

This is coming from someone who really hasn't like a version of Madden, since well at least Madden 05, but I disagree with this statement. Maybe because my outlook is different because of my age, but I simply don't focus on what hasn't been added or improved on with the game.

Although to be honest I just play the game, and if it's fun and I enjoy it, I keep playing, if it's not, I don't. I don't over-analyze ever aspect of the game.

Also, as much as I loved 2k5, and I actually had some input on that game, there is some definite revisionist history when it comes to it's greatness.

Hey, like I said, I'm not trying to start a big flame war here. I'm just really passionate about football and football video games. I've played football more than half my life, and other than the occasional good looking game here and there, football games are really the only one's I'm interested in. But it is just literally impossible for me to enjoy an EA football title for more than a couple weeks, tops (NCAA 12 has already been returned, and not because of the bugs). And there in lies the problem. I didn't just make a conscious decision to dislike Madden. I want more than anything to be having a great experience with these games. At first I thought maybe I just wasn't getting it, but I've come to realize I just hate how these games play on the field. They are so unbelievably underwhelming, and when I play a game like The Show, it just reinforces my feelings. If you're able to enjoy your experience, then by all means more power to you. I'm not here to change anyone's opinion, and I truly envy you if that's the case. But I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I will never understand how you guys can do it. The animations suck. The momentum sucks. The strategy sucks. And most importantly, the feel of realism really really sucks. These games just don't do anything for me, and that says a lot being that I'm a die hard football guy who's given them chance after chance after chance to impress me. Unfortunately, very little has changed.

As for 2K having a revisionist history, I have to strongly disagree there too. What made 2K5 so great was that it did something Madden has yet to do. It made an attempt to simulate real life football. Did it fall flat on it's face in many instances? You betcha. But even though it was made with greatly outdated technology, it was still able some beautiful simulation moments, moments that to me are where the bar is set still to this day, which is a shame. 2K8 improved greatly on the 2K5 engine, and is no doubt in my mind the greatest simulation of football us gamers have ever had. That is why I haven't been able to accept what EA has done. Had 2K never existed, I may be enjoying the hell out of NCAA right now. But I've seen that simulation could be attempted and almost succeed, 7 years ago with last gen technology. Then I saw the gameplay improvements 2K was able to make in leaps and bounds from 2K5 to 2K8, giving us the most realistic simulation to date. That is why I am unable to overlook the very underwhelming improvements that have been made to this franchise, because even with the improvements that are being touted in Madden 12, I am still unable to feel a players weight in the demo. I guess 2K ruined football gaming for me for a while. Oh well, I guess another year of carving up fictional players on fictional teams with Dan Marino.

(all in my opinion)

[TombSong]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Whoa, there. Where's all the pent up anger coming from? Did you not read my post or just read what you wanted to.

I did say I agreed with most of your post and I did mention your not wrong and I'm not wrong for pointing out what I like.

I just don't know where you are coming from where you mention you can't like Madden's tackling system. Never once implied it or mentioned it.

Carry on, though.

I was not directing that directly towards you, thus why i said " not saying you did that" at the end of it. I was just using the tackling thing as an example of what goes on in the forum sometimes. No anger directed at you.

[tril]

I like it.
based on the demo its an improvement from last year,
player movemnt is fluid. players seem more weighted. feels like theres gravity in this game
I love the tackling.
running game is nice
passing is easy but that has to do with the pro vs all pro setting.
game definetly looks lovely.
the flow of the game seems much more realistic.

the demo reminds me of a crisper looking APFK2k8 for some reason.

I enjoyed the game without the commentary, so that says alot, but hopefully EA will have improved that aspect of the game considerably.

I find that receivers still have an issue of knowing where the sidelines are but I get the impression that has to do with where the ball is placed on the field relative to where a receiver would break on an out route, which makes alot of sense. I found that if I released the ball sooner the receiver seemed to break sooner on the sideline plays.
I like this aspect of the game, but does probably need to be patched.

only played 2 games so far. and I enjoyed it. Ill be purchasing the game on release date.

[bkrich83]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Hey, like I said, I'm not trying to start a big flame war here. I'm just really passionate about football and football video games. I've played football more than half my life, and other than the occasional good looking game here and there, football games are really the only one's I'm interested in. But it is just literally impossible for me to enjoy an EA football title for more than a couple weeks, tops (NCAA 12 has already been returned, and not because of the bugs). And there in lies the problem. I didn't just make a conscious decision to dislike Madden. I want more than anything to be having a great experience with these games. At first I thought maybe I just wasn't getting it, but I've come to realize I just hate how these games play on the field. They are so unbelievably underwhelming, and when I play a game like The Show, it just reinforces my feelings. If you're able to enjoy your experience, then by all means more power to you. I'm not here to change anyone's opinion, and I truly envy you if that's the case. But I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I will never understand how you guys can do it. The animations suck. The momentum sucks. The strategy sucks. And most importantly, the feel of realism really really sucks. These games just don't do anything for me, and that says a lot being that I'm a die hard football guy who's given them chance after chance after chance to impress me. Unfortunately, very little has changed.

I am not sure with how much football you played has to do with this. I can guarantee you, I've taken as many snaps in my life as anyone here, probably more, and it really has no bearing on this.

Realism is subjective. What's realistic to one person might not be to another person. The game is obviously not your cup of tea. That sucks but move on. If it's not fun, then find something else to do with your time.

As for 2K having a revisionist history, I have to strongly disagree there too. What made 2K5 so great was that it did something Madden has yet to do. It made an attempt to simulate real life football. Did it fall flat on it's face in many instances? You betcha. But even though it was made with greatly outdated technology, it was still able some beautiful simulation moments, moments that to me are where the bar is set still to this day, which is a shame. 2K8 improved greatly on the 2K5 engine, and is no doubt in my mind the greatest simulation of football us gamers have ever had. That is why I haven't been able to accept what EA has done. Had 2K never existed, I may be enjoying the hell out of NCAA right now. But I've seen that simulation could be attempted and almost succeed, 7 years ago with last gen technology. Then I saw the gameplay improvements 2K was able to make in leaps and bounds from 2K5 to 2K8, giving us the most realistic simulation to date. That is why I am unable to overlook the very underwhelming improvements that have been made to this franchise, because even with the improvements that are being touted in Madden 12, I am still unable to feel a players weight in the demo. I guess 2K ruined football gaming for me for a while. Oh well, I guess another year of carving up fictional players on fictional teams with Dan Marino.

(all in my opinion)

You won't find a bigger 2k fan than me, like I said, I know the devs, I actually had some input in that game, but there's definite revisionist history going on. People seem to forget a lot of the issues the game had. People remember it in a much more glowing light.

As far as 2k trying to simulate real life football and EA not, i won't go in to that, I wasn't in design meetings with EA, I don't know what their focus was or wasn't.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

You won't find a bigger 2k fan than me, like I said, I know the devs, I actually had some input in that game, but there's definite revisionist history going on. People seem to forget a lot of the issues the game had. People remember it in a much more glowing light.

A similar effect occurred around here with Inside Drive. And that game essentially "died" from lack of broad interest, rather than exclusivity. For years there were people harping that NBA2K and Live couldn't touch Inside Drive's tendency features, and many hardcore ID fans would argue it was a better basketball game because of it. It took 2K and Live putting that argument to sleep permanantly to quiet any talk of ID.

I'd agree w/you that there's a bit of revisionist history that occurs when it comes to 2K5; it was far from perfect. At the same time, it seems it does compare somewhat favorably to Madden 12, which is pretty ridiculous at this point. The thing most responsible for 2K5's enduring legacy is Madden itself. And the longer it takes Madden to put 2K5 to rest, the more it enhances 2K5's legacy imo

[IntellectualAssassin]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

I'd agree w/you that there's a bit of revisionist history that occurs when it comes to 2K5; it was far from perfect. At the same time, it seems it does compare somewhat favorably to Madden 12, which is pretty ridiculous at this point. The thing most responsible for 2K5's enduring legacy is Madden itself. And the longer it takes Madden to put 2K5 to rest, the more it enhances 2K5's legacy imo

Could not have said it any better, especially the bolded!

[IntellectualAssassin]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Realism is subjective.

You lost me here haha

[bkrich83]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

You lost me here haha

How so? Everyone's perception of football realism is quite different.

[bkrich83]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

A similar effect occurred around here with Inside Drive. And that game essentially "died" from lack of broad interest, rather than exclusivity. For years there were people harping that NBA2K and Live couldn't touch Inside Drive's tendency features, and many hardcore ID fans would argue it was a better basketball game because of it. It took 2K and Live putting that argument to sleep permanantly to quiet any talk of ID.

I'd agree w/you that there's a bit of revisionist history that occurs when it comes to 2K5; it was far from perfect. At the same time, it seems it does compare somewhat favorably to Madden 12, which is pretty ridiculous at this point. The thing most responsible for 2K5's enduring legacy is Madden itself. And the longer it takes Madden to put 2K5 to rest, the more it enhances 2K5's legacy imo

As far as Madden 12 vs. 2k5, personally i think that argument has been put to bed. Well in theory, as I haven't played the M12 retail version yet.

I think what drives 2k5's enduring legacy has nothing to do with the actual game of Madden, but the anger that revolves around the license deal itself. Which I understand. What I don't understand is why EA is solely blamed for that deal. As if EA somehow had the ability to strong arm the NFL in to making that deal. Stupid.