Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

[IntellectualAssassin]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

How so? Everyone's perception of football realism is quite different.

Well it shouldn't be. Anyone who says the player movement in Madden is realistic should lose all credibility in the conversation.

I think what drives 2k5's enduring legacy has nothing to do with the actual game of Madden, but the anger that revolves around the license deal itself.

I'm sure that has something to do with it for some people, but you can't honestly say that we would still be talking about 2K5 if Madden was where it should be by now, ergo Madden failing to improve is what makes us still consider 2K5 to be great. Which is sad, because as spankdatazz said, it's ridiculous that 2K5 is still in the conversation of best football game in 2011.

[tril]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Well it shouldn't be. Anyone who says the player movement in Madden is realistic should lose all credibility in the conversation.



I'm sure that has something to do with it for some people, but you can't honestly say that we would still be talking about 2K5 if Madden was where it should be by now, ergo Madden failing to improve is what makes us still consider 2K5 to be great. Which is sad, because as spankdatazz said, it's ridiculous that 2K5 is still in the conversation of best football game in 2011.

cosign
2k5 is 7 years old, and its now that people are comparing the Madden 12 demo to 2k5. I had said the Madden 12 demo reminded me of APF2k8. but
2k8 was a port of 2k5.

all I have to say is, if Madden 12 can remind folks of 2k5 or finally pass 2k5 then thats huge leap for Madden and us 2k fans who've been wanting/fiending for a football title to replace 2k5 on the current consoles (PS3/360).

I like the demo cant wait for the retail to be released. I have great hopes that this will be the year that I can get my NFL fix in all its glory, reminiscent of 2k5's glory days.

[Hooe]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Well it shouldn't be. Anyone who says the player movement in Madden is realistic should lose all credibility in the conversation.

I thought we threw realism out the door when we sat down to play a video game. If you want a realistic game of football, get some friends together and go play outside?

Nevertheless, determining the "realism" of a video game is indeed subjective; some of us have more (or less) insight as to what goes on on a football field than others, some of us want a low-scoring defensive chess match, some of us want domed high-scoring track meets, some of us want to grind it out with the run, some of us want to air it out all day. If someone doesn't get his desired result out of the game, he deems it "unrealistic" because it doesn't do what he expects it to do, whereas someone else with a different ideal can just as well call the same result the unsatisfied user got "realistic". How is that NOT subjective?

To your point, an argument that player movement in Madden is realistic insofar as the players walk, run, strafe, play zone coverage, run route, block, shed blocks, jump, catch, tackle, break tackles, etc. etc. None of the movements the players make are non-football movements; you don't see Sonic the Hedgehog flippy jumps, for example.

I'm sure that has something to do with it for some people, but you can't honestly say that we would still be talking about 2K5 if Madden was where it should be by now, ergo Madden failing to improve is what makes us still consider 2K5 to be great. Which is sad, because as spankdatazz said, it's ridiculous that 2K5 is still in the conversation of best football game in 2011.

The argument that Madden is not a better game than it was even a year ago, let alone five or six, is simply bananas.

And let's be honest, many people still talk about the other game because they are still bitter at the exclusive license situation and that has soured their respective opinions on the Madden franchise.



For the record, I really enjoyed the demo.

[bkrich83]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Well it shouldn't be. Anyone who says the player movement in Madden is realistic should lose all credibility in the conversation.

As compared to 2k5? Again purely subjective. Realism in a football game is different for everyone..

I'm sure that has something to do with it for some people, but you can't honestly say that we would still be talking about 2K5 if Madden was where it should be by now, ergo Madden failing to improve is what makes us still consider 2K5 to be great. Which is sad, because as spankdatazz said, it's ridiculous that 2K5 is still in the conversation of best football game in 2011.

I believe we would still be talking about 2k5 no matter how great it was. I believe there are people here, who even if EA made the greatest football game ever made would still criticize it and compare it to 2k5 simply because of the license.

[bichettehappens]

I'm going to have to find a used copy of APF2K8 or something because I have to see what all this incessant cheerleading is all about

Begs the question why there are so many people who hate EA and Madden who insist on still coming on the Madden boards griping and complaining.

We understand you don't like Madden, cool, fair enough, but is it really necessary to continually post on this side seemingly trying to convince people that you're right and they're wrong? I feel like I'm being approached by an argumentative Jehovah's witness on a bicycle every time I enter a thread that goes down this 2K vs EA road.

I loved 2K5 it was a great game, especially at the price, but if I want to talk about how great it was I'd do so in the 2K section of the boards.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

As far as Madden 12 vs. 2k5, personally i think that argument has been put to bed. Well in theory, as I haven't played the M12 retail version yet.

I think what drives 2k5's enduring legacy has nothing to do with the actual game of Madden, but the anger that revolves around the license deal itself. Which I understand. What I don't understand is why EA is solely blamed for that deal. As if EA somehow had the ability to strong arm the NFL in to making that deal. Stupid.

It's really not just about 2K5; there are many times people bring up last gen Madden/NCAA, Backbreaker, or APF as examples also. That's why I used Inside Drive as an example. If The Show and MLB2K hadn't evolved beyond what MVP was doing, people would still be posting movies and wishing the game were still around. People actually do wish MVP was around, it's just that there are options that evolved beyond what MVP was. Madden really hasn't evolved beyond those games. People can make the case the OL/DL play was much better in 2K5 or APF. Or that the passing game/movement/sense of momentum better in last gen Madden/NCAA. Or that tackling better in Backbreaker. I'm not even sure tackling in Madden this year is beyond than what was being done in 2K5. From what I understand Frachise was much deeper in last gen Madden/NCAA. Madden/NCAA had far more extras like create-a-play, deep practice modes, etc. 2K5 and APF have far deeper penalty/challenge systems. While Presentation is much improved in M12, sadly we're still hearing excuses about the play-by-play. And halftime/postgame may as well be non-existent.

EA gets blame for the exclusive deal because most of the evidence points to their putting enough money on the table to make the deals difficult/impossible to refuse. By their own admission they were seeking exclusivity years before it happened. In order to believe EA doesn't foster most of the blame, you have to be willing to accept them signing the NCAA to an exclusive contract within a month (?) of the NFL exclusivity as simply being a coincidence. Most of us that around back then knew everything was in play; they were in active talks going after NBA exclusivity during that same period also.

That said I don't think people would care as much about exclusivity if they were producing a great game. It's not like Madden's retained the standing it had last gen - many people that dislike what the game became are Madden fans themselves.

[K_GUN]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

I was a 2k5 fanboy...go look up my posts

I think what guys like IntAssassin will find is that from here on out the *2k5 fan club* will continue to get smaller and smaller.

they are certainly entitled to express their opinion....but in time, nobody will be around to listen

[Lange248]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

I think this years Madden is going to be awesome; I'm enjoying the demo a lot. It has the feel of an older Madden game to me. The game-plan reminds me of Tecmo Ball as far the pace of the game. I will be playing the retail game with no commentary however, I think that's what has been bugging me about the current Madden.

[IntellectualAssassin]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

I thought we threw realism out the door when we sat down to play a video game. If you want a realistic game of football, get some friends together and go play outside?

If I want realism go play real football? Is that seriously your response? Yes, I am fully aware that it would be more realistic to play football in the real world, thank you. But are you advocating for not pushing realism, because after all, it's only a video game? Have you played The Show? With that attitude, I'm sure glad you're not the lead designer of these games...

Nevertheless, determining the "realism" of a video game is indeed subjective; some of us have more (or less) insight as to what goes on on a football field than others, some of us want a low-scoring defensive chess match, some of us want domed high-scoring track meets, some of us want to grind it out with the run, some of us want to air it out all day.

That's exactly the problem with the game. All of these things are realistic, and how good your players are should determine what happens. But they don't, what level you play on and your sliders determine how the game turns out the majority of the time. That's not realistic.

If someone doesn't get his desired result out of the game, he deems it "unrealistic" because it doesn't do what he expects it to do, whereas someone else with a different ideal can just as well call the same result the unsatisfied user got "realistic". How is that NOT subjective?

That's a pretty weak way to make your argument, and it doesn't make much sense either. I've gotten my desired result plenty of times while still understanding it didn't happen in a realistic way. Is Cutler breaking 3 tackles on one play realistic just because I'm a Bears fan?

To your point, an argument that player movement in Madden is realistic insofar as the players walk, run, strafe, play zone coverage, run route, block, shed blocks, jump, catch, tackle, break tackles, etc. etc. None of the movements the players make are non-football movements; you don't see Sonic the Hedgehog flippy jumps, for example.

Are you really going to argue the player movement is realistic? They may not do flippy jumps like Sonic, but they sure as hell zig zag like him.

The argument that Madden is not a better game than it was even a year ago, let alone five or six, is simply bananas.

1. I never made that argument, I said it's not much better

2. Calling it better from where it was isn't exactly saying all that much. It was absolute crap at one point.

And let's be honest, many people still talk about the other game because they are still bitter at the exclusive license situation and that has soured their respective opinions on the Madden franchise.

Another generalization. Am I bitter about exclusivity? I wouldn't even say bitter, just annoyed. But I'm still able to look at Madden subjectively, and dislike the game and the license as two separate entities.

[IntellectualAssassin]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

I believe we would still be talking about 2k5 no matter how great it was. I believe there are people here, who even if EA made the greatest football game ever made would still criticize it and compare it to 2k5 simply because of the license.

Well then you couldn't be further off base. You think people actually come here to criticize Madden just for ****s and giggles? HAHA! We're criticizing Madden because it needs to be criticized, and the fact that we're able to illustrate our point by comparing it to a game made for PS2 should be all the proof you need that it is in need of criticism.

[IntellectualAssassin]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

I was a 2k5 fanboy...go look up my posts

I think what guys like IntAssassin will find is that from here on out the *2k5 fan club* will continue to get smaller and smaller.

they are certainly entitled to express their opinion....but in time, nobody will be around to listen

Again, I'm more anti-Madden then I am pro-2K5.

[bichettehappens]

That's exactly the problem with the game. All of these things are realistic, and how good your players are should determine what happens. But they don't, what level you play on and your sliders determine how the game turns out the majority of the time. That's not realistic.

?????

Having to use sliders or change difficulty level makes the game unrealistic??

[IntellectualAssassin]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

That said I don't think people would care as much about exclusivity if they were producing a great game. It's not like Madden's retained the standing it had last gen - many people that dislike what the game became are Madden fans themselves.

Great post, but especially this last part. I don't get why they don't understand this. We don't hate that EA has the exclusive license. We hate that EA has the exclusive license and sits on it.

[IntellectualAssassin]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

?????

Having to use sliders or change difficulty level makes the game unrealistic??

I think so. I think the players should perform based on how good they are. Period. I hate having to tweak the entire game with a universal slider that adjusts how well all WR's catch the ball. Shouldn't their rating and how the play plays out be the only things that determine that?

[jcern23]

Re: Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

OK so I played the Demo on all madden and while I like the CPU defense on all madden it seemed the CPU had no running game. I hear there is a superstar level is this just something that is not available on the demo? I guess as a vet Im just concerned about buying this game and going through the whole 2 week process of testing sliders only to discover that madden grows boring and too easy to expolit as usual. Obviously i hope this is not the case as I love football and have been playin 2k and the show for years now waiting for a good football game. NCAA this year is a joke with all the issues so Im very skeptical about madden. Any feedback is appreciated.